shan vener Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 hey guys i was just looking over my codex and i've got a question about the dreadknight. on page 94 it says that a dread knight can have a personal teleporter just like the interceptor squad. i just want to make sure that i'm reading this right. if you give it this option can the dreadknight move 12" normally and make a 30" jump once a game or am i just fantizing about things (part blood angel player, i like fast things and deep strike) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrus Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Yes, and Yes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767684 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodo Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Another question; Can you take two 'weapons' and a close combat weapon? The codex suggests you can, but the latest missive on GW website would suggest not Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasoX Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 yes you can, its clearly written in codex entry Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Johnson the 3rd jr Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Another question; Can you take two 'weapons' and a close combat weapon?The codex suggests you can, but the latest missive on GW website would suggest not The question I have for you is, why would you? It would be crazy expensive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sirrion Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 For super awesome mega killyness. :woot: If you've got 300pts lying around that is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767874 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 With a personal transporter the Dreadknights gets 12" regular moves? Seriously?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767898 Share on other sites More sharing options...
501st Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 If you give the dread knight a personal teleporter then the dread knight becomes jump infantry and is no longer a monstrous creature. you get 12 inch movement and a single 30 inch jump BUT you may not move and fire with any of the weapons that can be taken as they are all heavy weapons and also in combat you do not roll an extra D6 Armour penetration. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767917 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 This sounds like a quandary of RAW vs RAI. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
501st Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 i know i sound stupid but what does RAW and RAI stand for? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearden441 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 rules as written / rules as intended Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Ariman Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 i know i sound stupid but what does RAW and RAI stand for? RAW= Rules As Written, this is often used by "Rule Lawyers" who seems sole goal in life is to make sure people follow the rules exactly as they are. Here being used to argue that the Dreadknight loses his monstrous creature status because the personal teleporter turns him into jump infantry. RAI= Rules As Intended, this is used more by individuals who interpret the rules not based what is exactly as written but as they believe the writers intended. Here being used to argue that the teleport pack makes the Dreadknight count as both Jump Infantry and Monstrous Creature. Personally I believe RAI interpretation as losing MC status would be rather odd considering how large the dread knight still is and also it would make him rather pointless for a 75 pt upgrade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Rules As Written. Rules As Intended. :jaw: GW has written into their rules that shy of an agreement with your opponent to do ... whatever, players must abide by the "rules as written". The problem, of course, is that GW is terrible at writing clear rules. And much of the time, this means that playing with the RAW often means divining what the actual intent of the rule means. A good example for the GK codex is doomfists on dreadknights. The RAW says that they follow all the rules for dreadnought close combat weapons. You go look up the rules for dreadnought close combat weapons in the BRB (Base or Big Rule Book; the main 40K rulebook, of course) and you see that it doubles "the walker's" strength in close combat. But the dreadknight isn't a walker! It's a monstrous creature! <_< By the "strict" RAW, one could argue, therefore, that doomfists on dreadknights do nothing! However, most people think the intention of that rule is clear enough, and we therefore play it that doomfists on DKs get Str 10 in close combat. RAI beat out RAW in this case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767983 Share on other sites More sharing options...
501st Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 well in regards to a jump infantry dread knight still being huge, id disagree slightly. i'd see one as a light dread knight so to speak, stripped down to be quick. i'd use a jump infantry dread knight with a great sword as an anti infantry combat unit a dread knight that quick could make a mess of a horde unit that could bog down a more useful unit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2767990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorne666 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I dont see that giving personal teleporters to dreadknights makes them lose ther MC status? If you compare it to a daemon prince in the chaos daemons dex giving them wings is 60pts which is believe makes them act as jump infantry no mention of losing MC status. Especially as a daemon prince is 80pts and wings are 60pts. I am curious what made you interpret the rule that way? Not having a dig just making sure I am not missing the obvious too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768241 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shan vener Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 I dont see that giving personal teleporters to dreadknights makes them lose ther MC status? If you compare it to a daemon prince in the chaos daemons dex giving them wings is 60pts which is believe makes them act as jump infantry no mention of losing MC status. Especially as a daemon prince is 80pts and wings are 60pts. I am curious what made you interpret the rule that way? Not having a dig just making sure I am not missing the obvious too. i may be new but i can still spot a heretic ;) although this is a good point and the same is true for tyranids and their hive tyrant. okay now i have to use this :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
worloch Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Because in the Codex if you look at the personal teleporter option for the Dreadknight, it refers you to the personal teleporter section for Interceptors, and in that section the first sentence definitively states that units equipped with personal teleporters are Jump Infantry. The argument would go that if you *are* Jump Infantry, you're *not* a Monstrous Creature . My personal take on it is that the writers simply used the unit type of Jump Infantry as quick short-hand way of getting Personal Teleporters to work like they wanted them to. Why write all those rules over again when you can simply state they are Jump Infantry and use a known reference point? The issue crept in when they put yet another reference point in for the Dreadknight, referring back to the Interceptor section, which refers to the BRB and they didn't think to make sure the BRB reference made sense for the Dreadknight. They just assumed the first section under Interceptor would work for the Dreadknight the same way it worked for the Interceptors. (All of this is just my hypothesis - no proof or anything like that associated) I believe the best interpretation is that a Dreadknight equipped with a Personal Teleporter is a Monstrous Creature that can *move* like Jump Infantry with the added bonus of the 1 per game Teleport Shunt as described in the Interceptor Personal Teleporter section. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Another question; Can you take two 'weapons' and a close combat weapon?The codex suggests you can, but the latest missive on GW website would suggest not The question I have for you is, why would you? It would be crazy expensive. Cause it looks cool of course. Thats the only reason to waste your money on toy soldiers. I never leave home without my gatling-incinerator-greatsword dreadknight. Hé is pure awesome :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 correct, use the interpretation. please. pretty please. if you don't, dreadknights will start cramming into stormravens and obtain 4+ cover saves from random tiny pieces of terrain they stand next to. the argument of "RAW states they ARE JI and therefore no longer MC" does not evaluate the implication of what turning a dreadknight into a JI instead of a MC is. the people that use this argument will grow up to become GW rules writers, always focused on the tree instead of the forest :devil:. Also, it never says that they lose MC status, people just ASSUME that by saying they are JI they are no longer MC. sounds like an interpretation to me, still cant find anywhere that says they change their status. P.S. this has been debated umpten times, so lets not fly off the handle and turn this into a JI vs MC debate. Im sure the admins will appreciate that. rational people will play it as "counts as JI" for the purposes of movement. I dont care if it says "is JI", you cant make me play it that nonsensical way :) . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768288 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Well, if a dreadknight with a personal teleporter moves like a daemon w/ wings and HT w/ wings... that is pretty awesome, and much more worth the points than the one shunt move per game. Won't leave home w/o a teleporter on dreadknights anymore! However, I don't think it would make them lose MC status, it just gives them the 12" normal move and shunt. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The PT question got hashed out in the OR forum, and Grey Mage pointed out that, if one is truly strict about RAW, Dreadknights can't take a teleporter. The NDK entry refers you to the page which describes Strike/Interceptor Squads, which says "Personal Teleporter (Interceptor Squads only)..." That said, it's pretty clear that the intent is for the Dreadknight to be able to take the teleporter, and not turn into Jump Infantry. A reasonable opponent shouldn't have any issues with you playing it in this fashion (nor with S10 doomfists, for that matter). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
501st Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 actually if you read the rules closely while on the page it does say interceptor squads only on the dredknight entry it says "* Acts in the same way as an interceptor squad personal teleporter" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Yea, teleporters are amazing. Can't wait to roll out in my next game with 2 DKs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768357 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelis Mortis Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 If you give the dread knight a personal teleporter then the dread knight becomes jump infantry and is no longer a monstrous creature. you get 12 inch movement and a single 30 inch jump BUT you may not move and fire with any of the weapons that can be taken as they are all heavy weapons and also in combat you do not roll an extra D6 Armour penetration. There is no rule that says Jump Infantry takes away Monstrous Creature status. You can be both. Look at winged Hive Tyrants, Daemon Princes, Bloodthirsters, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Valerius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 actually if you read the rules closely while on the page it does say interceptor squads only on the dredknight entry it says "* Acts in the same way as an interceptor squad personal teleporter" And the interceptor squad PT specifies interceptor squad only. Therefore, if it works just like it, it works on an interceptor squad only. Therefore it doesn't do anything for a NDK. We're engaging in some serious hair-splitting, however. The intent of the rule is extremely clear, so it's not really worth arguing except for the amusement of having a debate for debate's sake. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230388-dreadknight-question/#findComment-2768375 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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