Purdy81 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Just played a game against my mates Chaos Demons and wanted a bit of a clarification. Basically he started everything in reserve, and chose to deep strike half his force in on turn one. He placed a unit of bloodletters in my deployment zone behind my troops, and after rolling did not scatter, he then said that this unit had a chaos beacon thing so everything else could just deepstrike in within 6'' ( like space marine beacons) he then sent in a keeper of secrets, soul grinder and skulltaker with more bloodletters. My thinking of this situation is that deepstrike happens at the same time, so anything that enters via deepstrike on his first turn would all land at the same time and render his beacon useless, I haven't seen any rule for this it just seemed like common sense to me. Also when deepstriking especially with a large model like the soul grinder how much of the model has to be with 6 inches of the beacon? I ask because it seemed that alot of his models were further than 6 inches from the beacon. I mentioned to him that he has to place one model then the rest in a circle around that one and so on but obviously if your deepstriking in half your force in a 2000pt game theres only so many figures that can fit in the beacons range. Any help would much be appreciated! p.s I hate the way chaos can add upgrades without an obvious WYSIWYG, gets very confusing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 an icon has to be on the table at the beginning of the turn or it doesn't count. He can't drop 1 unit then drop the rest off the first units icon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdy81 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 an icon has to be on the table at the beginning of the turn or it doesn't count. He can't drop 1 unit then drop the rest off the first units icon. thats what I thought, do you know where this is actually written in the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan VK Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Just played a game against my mates Chaos Demons and wanted a bit of a clarification. Basically he started everything in reserve, and chose to deep strike half his force in on turn one. This is correct. Codex: Chaos Daemons includes a special rule called Daemonic Assault which mandates this. He placed a unit of bloodletters in my deployment zone behind my troops, and after rolling did not scatter, he then said that this unit had a chaos beacon thing so everything else could just deepstrike in within 6'' ( like space marine beacons) he then sent in a keeper of secrets, soul grinder and skulltaker with more bloodletters. "When a friendly unit Deep Strikes within 6" of an Icon of Chaos it does not roll for scatter, provided that the icon was on the table from the beginning of the turn and has not arrived from Reserve in the same turn." C:CD pg 73 He used icons incorrectly. Also when deepstriking especially with a large model like the soul grinder how much of the model has to be with 6 inches of the beacon? I ask because it seemed that alot of his models were further than 6 inches from the beacon. Just like disembarking/embarking, claiming objectives, and pretty much everything involving measuring excepting deployment, as long as any part of the base/hull is within the designated area it is legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdy81 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Thanks for clearing that up guys, think the game might have gone rather differently if I'd have know this before! Good chance some of his stuff would have ended up off the board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomberbeer Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Good Morning Sir, It appears that the Chaos Deployment started out correct (C:Chaos Demons, Page 27, Demonic Assault) with his entire force in reserve, with half of the units deep-striking on Demon Turn 1 (the 3 paragraphs on page 27 are worth reading for complete details about how the army is divided up for turn 1 deep striking). It appears it went a little downhill after that. While his unit of Bloodletters had a Chaos Icon, the rules on page 73 of the C:CD clearly state "When a friendly unit Deep Strikes within 6" of an Icon of Chaos it does not roll for scatter, provided that the icon was on the table from the beginning of the turn and has not arrived from Reserve in the same turn." As to "which models need to be within 6" of the Chaos Icon", the model simply needs to be within 6" of the Chaos Icon. I have not encountered an argument where the ENTIRE model or the ENTIRE unit needing to be within 6", as long as some part of the hull or some part of the unit is within 6", this complies with the rules. My reasoning behind this is based on the BRB rules on page 95, Deep Strike, that reference a single model being placed, then the scatter die is rolled, then the model is 'scattered' if applicable, then the balance of the unit is placed around the original model. Based on this sequencing, I have played it so the "first model" is within 6", and this complies with the rules. The rest of the unit then forms up around it. I keep my Chaos Icons near the edge of their mobs, because some of the incoming mobs have 20 models, and these need some space to land as per the BRB rules. Deep Strike is still Deep Strike. The rules on BRB page 95 are important. However, there is one minor change I suggest for my opponents. If I do encounter a Deep Strike Mishap, #1-2 "Terrible Accident" the Demons aren't really 'dead', they merely took the wrong bus, and ended up at home. "OK, Plaguebearers, hop on the 2:30pm express to Imperial Palace 2nd floor!" and they end up at the local tavern, wondering what the hell went wrong. Sure they still count as destroyed, but they are happier and drunk in the process. It has no impact on the game. Just on the...er..."story" afterwards. Relating to your concern about WYSIWYG and Gifts of Chaos, some are a little difficult to model (certain shooting abilities, like Boon of Mutation, aren't really 'weapon based') and some allow for our creativity to run rampant (Chariots!). I fully understand your frustration. Of the 26 possible Gifts of Chaos (not including mounts and chariots, or Marks of Chaos - all of which SHOULD be represented) by my count i see 18 that I have no idea how to model them so EVERYONE who approached my army would look and say "Oh, that Greater Demon must have the Soul Devourer Ability!" as easily as they look and say "Oh, that Marine Commander is in Terminator Armor with dual Lightning Claws". I believe it is my responsibility to remind people of the various abilities of the different units on the board every now and again - usually right about the time they get that look in their eyes and want to charge something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanhausen Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Also when deepstriking especially with a large model like the soul grinder how much of the model has to be with 6 inches of the beacon? I ask because it seemed that alot of his models were further than 6 inches from the beacon. Just like disembarking/embarking, claiming objectives, and pretty much everything involving measuring excepting deployment, as long as any part of the base/hull is within the designated area it is legal. But since the first model that hits the ground is the one that has to be in the 6" radius... it CAN get quite crowded, specially with big units, large models or big bases. For example, placing 6 bloodcrushers, a DP and a couple crabs (don't remember the name) will be quite hard to achieve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 But since the first model that hits the ground is the one that has to be in the 6" radius... it CAN get quite crowded, specially with big units, large models or big bases. For example, placing 6 bloodcrushers, a DP and a couple crabs (don't remember the name) will be quite hard to achieve... soulgrinders? but yes, it can get very crowded, especially given the need to DS close to the enemy aswell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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