Omega Striker Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 This is the place I eventually want to make the home of a very thorough explanation of my DIY chapter's fleet. I don't know how many here ever get over to the Liber Astartes board, but I am shunting part of my IA article over here where it would be better suited to the category of Battefleet Gothic. Here is the extract from my IA. Home Fleet: The Home Fleet, or Fleet Adeptus of the Dragons of the Void may be the largest chapter fleet of any chapter in the Imperium, but few will compare is a measure of effectiveness. In the millennia following their first posting, they have become masters of naval-grade deployment. They may have almost as many ships as a full Imperial fleet, and they are all the more dangerous for this in skill and craftsmanship. Their ships are, with a few exceptions, more maneuverable and are better piloted and gunned than other Imperial or Astartes fleets, making the Dragons' fleet extremely effective. Six thousand years of naval battle against both cunning Eldar, butchering Chaos forces, blunt Ork assaults, and pirates human and otherwise have given the Chapter a wide variety of naval experience, that the Dragons do not fail to exploit against any they deem unworthy of existing in the Emperor's galaxy. Among the Dragons fleet are two unique ships. The largest and more powerful is the Fortress Monastery, the Ark of Purpose. Within it the majority of the chapter stays, and therein lie the many different facilities the chapter needs to function, namely the Librarium, the Reclusiam, the Apothecarion, and the Initiatum. On board this ship is also where the Chapter command structure is housed, leading the Chapter against the enemies of Mankind. The sheer size and firepower of their precious Fortress Monastery means that it frequently is deployed in combat, and it's captain and crew are the pinnacle of a Chapter that sees space combat as it's primary duty. The other unique ship is the Dragon's Maw, a forge-ship that makes the Dragon's unusual independence possible, through ancient Dark Age technology. On board this ship are the munitorums and fabricators that allow for re-armament and re-supply in the midst of their never ending crusade. The chapter has learned to be self-sufficient in the unreliable frontier of the Ultima Segmentum, where forge worlds are not common, and this ship keeps their vehicles fueled, their weapons loaded, and their fleets repaired. It even has the capability to mine ore and fabricate entirely new ships, according to patterns stored on the ship since the dark age. That a chapter a mere 6000 years old has a ship such as this causes some consternation in the greater Imperium, but being a fleet on the far edge of the galaxy from Holy Terra has rendered some protection from Imperial redress. In addition to these two ships, there a several grand cruiser class ships that have been refitted to be hive ships, holding the Chapter and fleet recruiting populace. In a fleet that ventures very far from controlled Imperial space, recruitment and replacement of casualties is vitally important. A 'native' population of several hundred thousand occupies these ships, and provides the material for constant naval service and Chapter recruiting. Over the course of their many crusades, the Dragons have found many humans free of taint, heresy, or xenos interference, and inducted many into it's fleet as chapter serfs. Over thousands of years, the population of inductees has grown large enough to merit several hive ships' worth of serfs, all loyal to the chapter. Each hive ship also provides for it's populace's needs as well. There are several cruisers that add serious firepower to the chapter fleet, and make full scale engagements with the whole chapter a matter of suicide for any foolish enough to provoke a massed engagement. Added to this are more that two dozen frigates and escorts, enhanced by millenia of Dragon tinkering, to bring swift ruination to the enemies of mankind. Topped off with thunderhawk gunships, not to mention many secrets and weapons the chapter keeps hidden, the Chapter Fleet is no easy target. This has made the fleet large, well crewed, and dangerously self-sufficient. In addition, few in the Inquisition know what the chapter has been doing for the past thousands of years. They regularly return gene-seed tithes every century, but only seldom do they allow any Inquisitorial authority to crusade with them, and few are the inquisitors that wish to follow a space marine fleet into the depths of space, beyond the Astronomicon's light. Such is the state of things that the Inquisition has mandated that the Chapter return to Imperial space for a time, so that they may be examined for taint or lack of faith. The chapter has reluctantly agreed, having enjoyed it's time outside Imperial control. How events play out from here will determine whether the chapter stays a part of the Imperium, or must flee back into the void from whence they have emerged. Okay, blurb on the chapter fleet. Is there too much mary sue here? I want the chapter to be, say, in the 120% range for number of normally allowed ships for a fleet based chapter, and in the 95-100% for skill and effectiveness. Is that possible in the current fluff? Let me know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 From my understanding of SM chapter's naval assets, you aren't too far off of what is normal but you are definitely above average. I think the mobile fortress monastary makes perfect sense and you already have some precedent for this from other fleet based or crusading chapters like the Black eemplar's Eternal Crusader. However I think the forge ship seems both a bit over the top and rather unnecessary. Why not combine the two into one oversized battle barge equivalent? Most fortress monasteries have forge sections already so again it wouldn't be too much of a reach to include it into yours. The hive ships are an interesting idea and I think it works nicely to set your chapter apart. However using multiple grand cruisers might be excessive. Maybe a single grand cruiser that has had some of its main weapons removed to make space for more personnel. In essence you're making a mini-craftworld. I could see an increase in defensive weapons/shields/armor being appropriate though. The rest of it is fine with me, a mix of strike cruisers and escorts in fairly balanced numbers. Based on your number of escorts, I'd guess you're thinking of having 6-10 strike cruisers which seems reasonable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2767923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 They dont have to be grand cruisers either. Retrofitted civilian vessels, an ancient cruise ship of immense proportions... do what you like. Personally though, grand cruisers are a hard asset to get ahold of. Id be more inclined to a larger number of cruiser sized vessels. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2770214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 The Carcharodons had a grand cruiser during the Badab war. And it's not unheard of for Rogue Traders to have them- maybe because they're usually assigned to the reserve fleets and thus the Imperial Navy might be more open to selling them or giving them as a gift after some great achievement- maybe the Chapter saved an Imperial fleet from a massive attack? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2770276 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 hmm in not sure if several grand cruisers can house several hundred thousands of men... sure they are grand (pun intended) but i dont see them housing a few dozen (x times 1000) men each... then again BFG doesent exactly list the number of crew each ship can take for example the Armageddon battlecruiser needed 3500 more men just to power its added 2 dorsal lance turrets. the only addition to the ship were its 2 lances. (mind you its fire power increased in range but no mention of needing more men for that was added) perhaos you can use Excorcist grand cruisers as a base for these ships? strip of the weapon batteries "to make room for the extra crew" and maybe add another turret and voila! hive ship B) it will then serve a porpuse in the game as a carrier but that will be the only that it can do.... IIRC the imperium also doesent make grand cruisers anymore but has reverted to making battlecruisers. you could for example say they recovered some ships from space hulks or retrofitted one or two grand cruisers to the hive ships but its better if you list the actuall number that you intend to bring. several is abit inaccurate :) that said i dont see your fluff as beeing very unfluffy. there are chapters that stray off regulary from the index astartas (black templars are a nice example here. also got a huge crusading fleet...) but most (if not all) are scrutinzed by the imperium. perhaps you could add that the fleet has a larger then normal ratio of ships that are capable of exterminatus or that the chapter likes to blow their opponent up from orbit instead of meeting them face to face? would add abit of debt of why the imperium is so nervous of your chapter ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2770287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 An imperial Lunar cruiser can have easily 10,000 crew + soldiers, supplies, and passengers. Theses ships are massive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2771389 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega Striker Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Okay, sorry for letting the thread grow old, but now I have the time. So the idea behind my chapter has developed a little and now I see them being declared traitors and chased around/fired upon/in general treated poorly by the loyal members of the Imperium. But here's the part that applies to the Chapter fleet. Since they spent thousands of years outside the Imperium and never really showed up in full strength, I want to say that while out there, they drastically increased the size of their fleet. I was thinking of something like this: 1 Fortress Monastery, the Ark of Purpose 3 Battle Barges 6 military grade cruiser class 32 frigate-class (destroyers, other gunboats, etc.) ##### Inter-ship craft (in the case of space marines, thunderhawks and the like)(how many would be appropriate here? I don't know myself) I know this is a ton more than any space marine chapter has, or should have. And this is just the military stuff, too. In addition, there are 5 cruisers stripped of most weapons (not entirely weaponless though) and refitted with hab-blocks, for the recruiting populace/source of serfs/criminals to servitor 1 Forge Ship (space-faring refinery/chapter forge)(also has a huge grinder maw and grav-impeller which has proved useful in emergencies before) #### Numerous cargo vessels, reclaimed wrecks, mining haulers and corers, experimental vehicles, fire ships, etc. (this number changes frequently, and is usually growing larger) This is what most outsiders never see. The DotV protect these ships, along with their Fortress Monastery, will all they have, because they are the core of the chapter. When the DotV go to war, they usually send a battle barge or two, with appropriate military support. Most of the warships are kept back to conceal the size of the fleet, and to protect the core ships. The fleet has grown so large because of two things. One is the discovery of a near-mint condition forge ship that the first chapter master was led to by a vision a mere 150 years after the chapter's founding. Also, whenever the 'entire fleet' returns to Imperial space, they never bring the whole fleet. This has led to getting some of the 'destroyed' ships replaced by the AdMech. In this way, the fleet not only gets bigger over time, but gets new versions of ships every thousand years or so (that would be cool, except the ships seem to be getting crappier and crappier, am I right?) so that the Dragons can keep tabs on the Magos. Another is the discovery of a ship from the Dark Age of Technology, about one thousand years after the founding, that was originally a cargo ship with some precious cargo: a thinking machine. The first Dragons to find it were suspicious, but when the machine showed them it could design ships and weapons, it was shown to the Chapter counsel. They decided to keep it as a secret, from most of the chapter as well as any outside. They bargained with the machine for protection from other forces in the Galaxy and giving it materials and use of the forge ship, and in return the machine would provide them with knowledge and equipment from the lost age. This agreement has stuck, however tenuously, since the machine's discovery. The chapter's Fortress Monastery was build from scratch according to designs from the Machine, and it houses the new and improved body of the machine (now referred to by the chapter as the Voice of the Omnissiah, or just The Voice) The refitting of ships, the structural redesigns, weapon analysis, combat analysis, and hundreds of other things the chapter has to teach every space marine could now be done with wisdom from thousands of years and wargear, although not different on the outside, now functions better. The tech-priests do not go to mars anymore, but are trained by other techmarines in the chapter. This has also impacted the way that many other things are done in the chapter. Eventually, it gets found out that the Dragons are doing this, in addition to other specifically naughty things like making a man into an android, and they get the beatin' stick to the ol' chapter charter. The Inquisition suspects tech heresy, the Magos are called in, accusations are made, records are checked, and the big angry finger of Exterminatus is pointed. When this happens, the chapter fleet joins together, and flees before the sector fleet can organize soon enough and they get the heck out of Dodge. So, my fellow powered armored brethren, what part of this would fit in the warhammer 40k universe and what is just too ridiculous to be allowed? I think this is a relatively plausible explanation for what my chapter is and why they do things. But how can I make this a more real part of the universe? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2793689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 So, my fellow powered armored brethren, what part of this would fit in the warhammer 40k universe and what is just too ridiculous to be allowed? I think this is a relatively plausible explanation for what my chapter is and why they do things. But how can I make this a more real part of the universe? My first impression is that its starting to border on too much. I felt like you had a good balance before but the combination of having a larger fleet and the "going traitor" mixed with the "fancy lost tech" angles starts to make your chapter seem cliche. I won't tell you how to play or create your army as its ultimately yours but I would step back and ask yourself why you are going in this direction and if you have to take it to the extreme. A splash of techno-heresy is much better and more interesting then giving a big middle finger to the AdMech and the rest of the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2793786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The Cobra Strike Vessel in C:SM (p. 30), shows interesting crew numbers: 5 Space Marines and 150 Serfs I mean, I know it's a small craft but I still exprected more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2794647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavulg Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 That's almost too many. That means your average chapter fleet must have well over a hundred marines in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2794663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 That's almost too many. That means your average chapter fleet must have well over a hundred marines in it. Yeah never liked it much myself. Can't see why there wouldn't be Marines dedicated to Fleet duties like as 3rd edition Codex Space Marines explained it was like. Hope it goes back to that in another, future Codex, as otherwise wasting Marines from the line Companies seems like a squandering of resources. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2794767 Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I don't think that every frigate/destroyer that a chapter has has to have a squad of marines aboard. I think its more likely that you would have a squad of marines spread throughout a squadron of such ships instead or maybe you put the marines on ships that are in hostile territory while "safer" ships are crewed by serfs only. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2795992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 Out of curiosity, you are aware that the Void Dragons is the name of a famous group of Eldar Pirates, right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2796320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 That's almost too many. That means your average chapter fleet must have well over a hundred marines in it. Yeah never liked it much myself. Can't see why there wouldn't be Marines dedicated to Fleet duties like as 3rd edition Codex Space Marines explained it was like. Hope it goes back to that in another, future Codex, as otherwise wasting Marines from the line Companies seems like a squandering of resources. IIRC marines no longer fitt for active duty were sent to train scouts, help the headquarters staff with administrative duties and serve abord the space bound ships directing the chapter serves. cant recall where (i think) ive read it though ;) and i wouldnt be suprised if multiple group call themselves by an identical name in the vastness of space :D besides isent it a name given to the eldar by the imperium? the name doesent sound very eldar like :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2796617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Its a translation of their name actually. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2796840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spu00sed Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Isn't there some other void dragon out there as well, a tech like being. I like your older fluff, more than the newer stuff. There is too much going on. I would keep it to Large mobile fortress monestry (Ramilies class star fort) Forge ship (no idea, possible kitbashed, though it should be big enough to hold a strike cruiser) 2 or 3 battle barges 6-10 strike cruisers 3 or 4 other cruisers and grand cruisers 20-30 escorts 3 or 4 hive ships (degunned grand cruisers some superheavy cargo transporters) I would keep the tech heresy in the background. Hints and rumours. For example they were called the Emperor's Dragons. However afetr a few centuries of crusading they returned with the Forge Ship and renamed Dragons of the Void. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230408-battlefleet-gothic-fleet-of-the-dragons-of-the-void/#findComment-2798252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.