Combat squads, reserves and the rest

[Tanhausen]

Ok, seems like today is not my rules day... so hopefully you frater can help me out. The questions are about Dark Angels, but probably the same answer goes for SM and the rest.

 

Unit A: 10 tacticals in drop pod

Unit B: 6 bikes with AB

 

Question 1

 

Can I deploy 5 marines and keep the other 5 in reserve with the pod? I think no...

Can I deploy 3 bikes and keep the other 3 in reserve/outflanking? I'd say neither

 

Reason: you have to deploy all of the members at the same time. (if someone knows the page, I'd appreciate)

 

Question 2

 

Can I reserve unit A and when the pod lands split the squad in 2 x 5 men units? page please? <-- this I haven't seen on a game, but a friend insists it CAN be done.

 

Same for the bikes... can I keep the 6 in reserves and then when I outflank, split the 2 once they hit the board? <-- I'm pretty sure about reading a WD when DA came out (yep, some time ago) that they actually mentioned this was not possible...

 

Question 3

 

Anything else you guys want to comment/troll? :lol:

 

Thanks for the help!

[dswanick]

Ok, seems like today is not my rules day... so hopefully you frater can help me out. The questions are about Dark Angels, but probably the same answer goes for SM and the rest.

 

Unit A: 10 tacticals in drop pod

Unit B: 6 bikes with AB

 

Question 1

 

Can I deploy 5 marines and keep the other 5 in reserve with the pod? I think no... no, and

Can I deploy 3 bikes and keep the other 3 in reserve/outflanking? I'd say neither no. It's in the DA FAQ.

 

Reason: you have to deploy all of the members at the same time. (if someone knows the page, I'd appreciate)

 

Question 2

 

Can I reserve unit A and when the pod lands split the squad in 2 x 5 men units? page please? <-- this I haven't seen on a game, but a friend insists it CAN be done. Yes, it's in the Special Rules for Combat Squads, Pg.51 C:SM

 

Same for the bikes... can I keep the 6 in reserves and then when I outflank, split the 2 once they hit the board? <-- I'm pretty sure about reading a WD when DA came out (yep, some time ago) that they actually mentioned this was not possible... Again, yes. You are Combat Squading them at the time of Deployment so it is allowed.

 

Question 3

 

Anything else you guys want to comment/troll? :P

 

Thanks for the help!

[greatcrusade08]

i thought bikes had to be 5 man strong in a combat squad, in other words youd need a full 8 bikes plus attack bike to be allowed to combat squad them

[Tanhausen]

Thanks dswanick. I'll check the DA FAQs just in case they are different.

 

@scoutsarethenewblack

 

Dark Angels' Ravenwing are 3 bikes and can buy 3 more.

 

You can combat into units of 3. The AB you buy with the initial 3 bikes automatically separates from the regular bikes and operates as an independent unit from then on (C: DA p.27... this one I know by heart :P ).

[Valkyrion]

Sadly, dswanick is incorrect. DA is different to SM.

 

Dark Angels codex p23 - combat squads

'...units held in reserve cannot be split into combat squads and vice versa.'

 

Also from the DA FAQ;

Q. Can you take a Drop Pod with a 10-man squad and

then put a combat squad in it, deploying the other combat

squad on the table, or leave it in reserve but not in the

Drop Pod? (p35)

A. No, because squads that are placed in reserve may not

break down into combat squads.

 

Also note that you need to have a full squadron (6 bikes, attack bike, land speeder) in order to combat squad and a land speeder cannot outflank.

 

So no, you cannot combat squad any unit that has been held in reserve and you cannot outflank your ravenwing if you include a speeder.

[SeattleDV8]

Incorrect, this was changed by eratta

DA FAQ

"Page 23 – Combat Squads

The third paragraphʼs last sentence should be ignored,

and the penultimate sentence should be changed to “If you

decide to break the unit down, then each Combat Squad is

treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that

point.”

The line you quoted "'...units held in reserve cannot be split into combat squads and vice versa." is no longer part of the codex.

 

Dswanick is 100% correct.

[Tanhausen]

Thanks Valkyrion.

 

I'm sure dswanick is correct with SM (which I wanted to know) but those DA finesse points are appreciated.

 

As for combat squadding... are you saying that if I take a 6 man biker unit, I cant split them? I understand no outflanking, but combat squadding? why?

 

*** grumble grumble, when will they apply the same rule in the same way in all the codex ... grumble grumble ***

[Valkyrion]

My bad. I completely missed that as the FAQ question contradicts that. The same faq still states that 'squads that are placed in reserve may not break down into combat squads.'

[Valkyrion]

Thanks Valkyrion.

 

I'm sure dswanick is correct with SM (which I wanted to know) but those DA finesse points are appreciated.

 

As for combat squadding... are you saying that if I take a 6 man biker unit, I cant split them? I understand no outflanking, but combat squadding? why?

 

*** grumble grumble, when will they apply the same rule in the same way in all the codex ... grumble grumble ***

 

p27, emphasis mine;

 

'Ravenwing bike squadrons at full strength may fight ...'

 

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it means full strength being a total of 10 marines, like every other combat squad situation, and to get 10 men in your ravenwing squadron you need the AB and LST.

[Tanhausen]

I think you're overreading...I've always played that 6 bikes can combat squad but can't outflank then...general knowledge I guess, so I can't point out the exact page and so.

 

I guess I was doing that wrong, because with the FAQ mentioned by Seattledv8 I can outflank AND combat squad the 6 bikes.

[Tanhausen]

Here is another...

 

10 assault marines want to DS and combat squad.

 

Say turn 3, I roll 1 die... and here comes the odd bit:

 

1.- I land them together, 1 single scatter and when they touch the board, they can split (o basically, 5 run and 5 shoot).

 

2.- I actually roll 2 scatters, 1 for each of the 5 men squads.

 

Help? Page?

 

Thanks!

[dswanick]

Here is another...

 

10 assault marines want to DS and combat squad.

 

Say turn 3, I roll 1 die... and here comes the odd bit:

 

1.- I land them together, 1 single scatter and when they touch the board, they can split (o basically, 5 run and 5 shoot).

 

2.- I actually roll 2 scatters, 1 for each of the 5 men squads. <--This

 

Help? Page?

 

Thanks!

[Tanhausen]

Here is another...

 

10 assault marines want to DS and combat squad.

 

Say turn 3, I roll 1 die... and here comes the odd bit:

 

1.- I land them together, 1 single scatter and when they touch the board, they can split (o basically, 5 run and 5 shoot).

 

2.- I actually roll 2 scatters, 1 for each of the 5 men squads. <--This <-- Thanks

 

Help? Page?

 

Thanks!

[Jehoel]

Here is another...

 

10 assault marines want to DS and combat squad.

 

Say turn 3, I roll 1 die... and here comes the odd bit:

 

1.- I land them together, 1 single scatter and when they touch the board, they can split (o basically, 5 run and 5 shoot). <--this is right

 

2.- I actually roll 2 scatters, 1 for each of the 5 men squads. <--This <wrong

 

Help? Page?

 

Thanks!

 

They are one unit until they deploy on the table, so one roll, then they can combat squad.

[dswanick]

Here is another...

 

10 assault marines want to DS and combat squad.

 

Say turn 3, I roll 1 die... and here comes the odd bit:

 

1.- I land them together, 1 single scatter and when they touch the board, they can split (o basically, 5 run and 5 shoot). <--this is right

 

2.- I actually roll 2 scatters, 1 for each of the 5 men squads. <--This <wrong

 

Help? Page?

 

Thanks!

 

They are one unit until they deploy on the table, so one roll, then they can combat squad.

Nope.

The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed. Both combat squads can be deployed in separate locations.

 

If you decide to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point.

The order of steps is

1. During deployement place a 10-man assault squad in reserves, declaring they will enter play using Deep Strike.

2. Roll 1 die for the 10-man assault squad for availability.

3. When the 10-man squad becomes available, deploy it. This is the point where you decide to Combat Squad them. From here on out there are two seperate 5-man squads.

4. Each squad is deployed sepereately, anywhere you want them to be.

5. Place the first model of the first squad, scatter, place the other four models.

6. Place the first model of the second squad, scatter, place the other four models.

[SeattleDV8]

'Ravenwing bike squadrons at full strength may fight ...'

 

Unless I'm reading it wrong, it means full strength being a total of 10 marines, like every other combat squad situation, and to get 10 men in your ravenwing squadron you need the AB and LST.

 

If you finish the quote from pg 27 you have the answer "....at full strength may fight either as a single unit of six bikes or break down into two three man combat squads"

The Attack bike and the land speeder always are single model scoring units.

 

You may combat squad when deploying, a unit being placed in reserve is not deployed, but when coming in from reserves it is then deployed and at that time can combat squad.

[Jehoel]

Here is another...

 

10 assault marines want to DS and combat squad.

 

Say turn 3, I roll 1 die... and here comes the odd bit:

 

1.- I land them together, 1 single scatter and when they touch the board, they can split (o basically, 5 run and 5 shoot). <--this is right

 

2.- I actually roll 2 scatters, 1 for each of the 5 men squads. <--This <wrong

 

Help? Page?

 

Thanks!

 

They are one unit until they deploy on the table, so one roll, then they can combat squad.

Nope.

The decision to split the unit into combat squads, as well as which models go into each combat squad, must be made when the unit is deployed. Both combat squads can be deployed in separate locations.

 

If you decide to split a unit into combat squads, then each combat squad is treated as a separate unit for all game purposes from that point.

The order of steps is

1. During deployement place a 10-man assault squad in reserves, declaring they will enter play using Deep Strike.

2. Roll 1 die for the 10-man assault squad for availability.

3. When the 10-man squad becomes available, deploy it. This is the point where you decide to Combat Squad them. From here on out there are two seperate 5-man squads. <<<--- As I said, one die for availability and then Combat Squad on deployment. I never said they have to deploy together.

4. Each squad is deployed sepereately, anywhere you want them to be.

5. Place the first model of the first squad, scatter, place the other four models.

6. Place the first model of the second squad, scatter, place the other four models.

[dswanick]

Here is another...

 

1.- I land them together, 1 single scatter and when they touch the board, they can split (o basically, 5 run and 5 shoot). <--this is right

 

2.- I actually roll 2 scatters, 1 for each of the 5 men squads. <--This <wrong

 

They are one unit until they deploy on the table, so one roll, then they can combat squad.

Nope.

3. When the 10-man squad becomes available, deploy it. This is the point where you decide to Combat Squad them. From here on out there are two seperate 5-man squads. <<<--- As I said, one die for availability and then Combat Squad on deployment. I never said they have to deploy together.

Then why are you saying 1 Deep Strike Scatter roll is right and 2 Scatter rolls is wrong? When you decide to Combat Squad the unit it is treated as two seperate units from then on. Each of the two units can be deployed anywhere you want them. Each unit must be scattered as a seperate unit, therefore two scatter rolls.

[shatter]

What he said.