Heavy support Choices

[DreadLift]

So my current 1250 list has no heavy support units at all. A brief summary of what I am using is

 

HQ Reclusiarch

 

Troops x 2 Raz assault

 

DC in Raz (with the HQ)

 

1 DC Dread with talons

 

6 scouts with snipers

 

2 furioso with Talons.

 

There's a nice mix of las, plas and melta in the army and it's worked well for me.

 

However now were thinking of raising our games to 1750.

I think I have a nice mix of stuff now so not sure what to add for an extra 500pts.

 

I like dreadnoughts but that's just my thing.

 

Any ideas, I mostly play against MEQ armies so with that in mind. Over to you guys :D

[HERO]

AC/LC Pred for 135. It's pretty much our best anti-tank option for the price in the heavy slot.

[liberate_tutame]

I second the above. It's become the de facto choice in mech lists for good reason.

[DreadLift]

If I went all 3 slots with AC/LAS Preds I could also drop the scouts and add another dread, even a Libby dread. That's worth thinking about :lol:. Cheers

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

AC/LC Pred for 135. It's pretty much our best anti-tank option for the price in the heavy slot.

 

I honestly never thought I'd see the day when people say that about that configuration.

Most people run M.L dev, for less points and obvious benefits (priests, easier cover and no stunned/shaken).

Or 3 x missile and 1x Lascannon for best use of that BS5 shot.

[HERO]

My BA are 100% about mobility and going where it needs to go at all times. Devs just don't do it for me, especially if it needs a babysitter Priest nearby.

 

Everything I have is on the move, or is capable of moving and relocating - the real BA way.

[DreadLift]

What about vindicators, are they a good option or is the 1 big gun on a weapon destroyed result too risky ?

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

My BA are 100% about mobility and going where it needs to go at all times. Devs just don't do it for me, especially if it needs a babysitter Priest nearby.

 

Everything I have is on the move, or is capable of moving and relocating - the real BA way.

 

But he likes his babies! Eeeer, anyway. The vindi is usually a no-go. Both for weapon destroy screwing it forever, and for the fact that B.A usually go C.C. What your freshly deep-striked (stroken, stroked, stricken?) squad doesn't want is a template in its face.

[cptphoenixck]

What about vindicators, are they a good option or is the 1 big gun on a weapon destroyed result too risky ?

In my experience yes, without target saturation big threats like str10 ap1 pieplates tend to be killed off quickly. Two V's would be a standard way to go though.

As you're running a mech(ish) list I would second the predator, though I like my units to have a very specific purpose, especially when they're my long ranged support.

So I'd suggest either an ac/hb or lc/lc config.

Personally though I field 2-3 Dev units with 4 plasma cannons a piece as in my local meta everything's pretty much meq.

My 0.2 pence.

[HERO]

What about vindicators, are they a good option or is the 1 big gun on a weapon destroyed result too risky ?

 

They scare the hell out of your opponents though.

 

I stick by what I said earlier.

[liberate_tutame]

So I'd suggest either an ac/hb or lc/lc config.

 

I honestly think the Dakka pred configuration is trash. We have Baal's for fire saturation, and they have scout and don't take up a Heavy slot.

 

The LC/lc annihilation pattern is too pricey to justify its cost.

 

I just don't think Dev's are great, I might try out 3 missiles and 1 lascannon loadout though. It seems the most effective loadout.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

So I'd suggest either an ac/hb or lc/lc config.

 

I honestly think the Dakka pred configuration is trash. We have Baal's for fire saturation, and they have scout and don't take up a Heavy slot.

 

The LC/lc annihilation pattern is too pricey to justify its cost.

 

I just don't think Dev's are great, I might try out 3 missiles and 1 lascannon loadout though. It seems the most effective loadout.

 

You're right about the latter being overpriced, but dakka preds have their uses. Most notably, they don't take fast attack slots, and that slot is where half the good stuff in the codex is.

[Isryion]

So I'd suggest either an ac/hb or lc/lc config.

 

I honestly think the Dakka pred configuration is trash. We have Baal's for fire saturation, and they have scout and don't take up a Heavy slot.

 

The LC/lc annihilation pattern is too pricey to justify its cost.

 

I just don't think Dev's are great, I might try out 3 missiles and 1 lascannon loadout though. It seems the most effective loadout.

 

I think that HERO takes 6 Preds, so his response makes sense. On the other hand, my pick is typically a stormraven, which you're essentially going to get for the same cost as the pred HERO mentioned, but with far more utility. Here's why: Your DC currently have a transport which is 55 points. Dreds typically have a pod, which is thirty (though maybe you don't). Pred (135)+Transports (85) = 220. That's a SR with EA, which has more firepower, is faster, and is an assault vehicle for those models. Obviously, there are drawback, but imo if you are fielding any attack dreds, a SR is the way to go.

 

I realize you didn't ask, but your list really lacks scoring models, especially as the points get higher.

[angel of justice]

i think if you take a storm raven you will be able to put your death company and a dread there and get them into the fight faster as well as saving points on your razerback if you were so inclined

[JamesI]

I love Vindis or DEvs. Never had much luck with AC/LC Preds.

[cptphoenixck]

So I'd suggest either an ac/hb or lc/lc config.

 

I honestly think the Dakka pred configuration is trash. We have Baal's for fire saturation, and they have scout and don't take up a Heavy slot.

 

The LC/lc annihilation pattern is too pricey to justify its cost.

 

I just don't think Dev's are great, I might try out 3 missiles and 1 lascannon loadout though. It seems the most effective loadout.

 

Dev's are brilliant in alot of cases, the only problem with the opening post is that his army is very mobile, not a bad thing in itself just means more staitonary units dont provide much synergy.

 

I suggested either dakka preds as the op was asking about HS choices, I'd agree that Baals of any config are great.

 

Devs provide an unparalelled amount of fire and for a good price. And against alot of weapons provide a fair bit of survivability.

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

So I'd suggest either an ac/hb or lc/lc config.

 

I honestly think the Dakka pred configuration is trash. We have Baal's for fire saturation, and they have scout and don't take up a Heavy slot.

 

The LC/lc annihilation pattern is too pricey to justify its cost.

 

I just don't think Dev's are great, I might try out 3 missiles and 1 lascannon loadout though. It seems the most effective loadout.

 

Dev's are brilliant in alot of cases, the only problem with the opening post is that his army is very mobile, not a bad thing in itself just means more staitonary units dont provide much synergy.

 

I suggested either dakka preds as the op was asking about HS choices, I'd agree that Baals of any config are great.

 

Devs provide an unparalelled amount of fire and for a good price. And against alot of weapons provide a fair bit of survivability.

 

They also synergise extremely well with DoA, as people have started to notice as of lately. Must get me some more.

[Demitra]

I run two squads of 10 Devs with 4 MLs with a SP to babysit them. While I'm not crazy about having that Priest sit there and pick his nose all game, it's an effective combo. I take the full squads both for extra bodies and so I can combat squad. They're not as mobile as the Preds of course, but they're tough and can shoot at more targets than 3 Preds can. With the mention above of putting in the LC to use the BS5 shot, I may try that with a PC for the smaller deviation as I'm facing either Plague Marines or Deathwing.

[JamesI]

So I'd suggest either an ac/hb or lc/lc config.

 

I honestly think the Dakka pred configuration is trash. We have Baal's for fire saturation, and they have scout and don't take up a Heavy slot.

 

The LC/lc annihilation pattern is too pricey to justify its cost.

 

I just don't think Dev's are great, I might try out 3 missiles and 1 lascannon loadout though. It seems the most effective loadout.

 

Dev's are brilliant in alot of cases, the only problem with the opening post is that his army is very mobile, not a bad thing in itself just means more staitonary units dont provide much synergy.

 

I suggested either dakka preds as the op was asking about HS choices, I'd agree that Baals of any config are great.

 

Devs provide an unparalelled amount of fire and for a good price. And against alot of weapons provide a fair bit of survivability.

 

They also synergise extremely well with DoA, as people have started to notice as of lately. Must get me some more.

I love Devs with DOA armies. Works well if you don't insist on pure jump pack (which I'm testing now).

[Crynn]

I have used a AC/LC pred for many many games and it always a star performer. I also generally put a dozer blade on ti for 5 points as the ability to go anywhere is actually very usefull seeing as my army is always on the move. Granted I also give it a hunter killer most of the time for extra first turn punch, 5 shots first turn always seems to take down that vendetta or other pred.

 

In saying that recently I have been running 2 10 man dev squads with all lascannons based on a marine list a built and my god have they been terrorizing my opponents, the fact that they have to crunch through 6 marines per squad to get to the lascannons generally means the lascannons are still standing turn 5, there is always a priest near by as my tacs use it and sit on a home objective, it is an amazing fire base that has yet to be removed.

 

As for a storm raven and putting your dc and dread in it I personally think that is a bad idea. If you use it as a transport you wont be firing all those lovely weapons and thus it isn't really filling the heavy support role youa re looking for, if you dont transport anything it is a really expensive predator with less armor that will pretty much never get a cover save. I have found it a rather confused unit and wouldnt ever rocomend it as a CC units transport.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[Isryion]

As for a storm raven and putting your dc and dread in it I personally think that is a bad idea. If you use it as a transport you wont be firing all those lovely weapons and thus it isn't really filling the heavy support role youa re looking for, if you dont transport anything it is a really expensive predator with less armor that will pretty much never get a cover save. I have found it a rather confused unit and wouldnt ever rocomend it as a CC units transport.

 

Crynn

 

Pretty much the opposite of my experience. Once I've dropped off troops (usually turn 2) it's free to roam and almost gets ignored delivering lots of pain. When moving 12, you still get to fire two of its weapons as well, so unless you are flat out, you're putting out just as much firepower (especially if you have the TLAsC) and its likely more accurately (TL). I guess I've made it work, and I've seen plenty of others that have as well. It's true that it's not for everyone, but if you're not using it for a transport for CC units, I really don't think it's worth taking. I think it's a great, flexible choice, especially in the heavy slot, but to each their own.

[marine77]

I am a big fan of devestators and dreads as they seem to be the most cost efficient means of supplying high strength shots.

[Crynn]

As for a storm raven and putting your dc and dread in it I personally think that is a bad idea. If you use it as a transport you wont be firing all those lovely weapons and thus it isn't really filling the heavy support role youa re looking for, if you dont transport anything it is a really expensive predator with less armor that will pretty much never get a cover save. I have found it a rather confused unit and wouldnt ever rocomend it as a CC units transport.

 

Crynn

 

Pretty much the opposite of my experience. Once I've dropped off troops (usually turn 2) it's free to roam and almost gets ignored delivering lots of pain. When moving 12, you still get to fire two of its weapons as well, so unless you are flat out, you're putting out just as much firepower (especially if you have the TLAsC) and its likely more accurately (TL). I guess I've made it work, and I've seen plenty of others that have as well. It's true that it's not for everyone, but if you're not using it for a transport for CC units, I really don't think it's worth taking. I think it's a great, flexible choice, especially in the heavy slot, but to each their own.

 

 

Absolutely, and that is a fair break down mate. However peronally I have never faced one I haven't shot down turn one either leaving its cargo strandard in the opponents deployment zone or out in front of my army after in moved allowing me to charge the occupants instead of the other way around. I have had people reserve it however I know the charge range from the unit and either just avoided its range with things I didn't want charged or just said 'sweet they just reserved 600+ points of their army for an average of 3 turns'.

 

If you move it as a transport it isn't really acting as a heavy support choice that turn and I have never seen a good player let an enemy one live. I have used it as a mobile gun ship with 5 assault marine in it with no packs who used their discount to buy a transport for another unit (tac squad) and it acted as long range fire support and late game contesting, it did well at that but the thing is a 200+ point tissue box that only gets cover if you are willing to fire just one gun. Even then it's only 4+ cover unlike my rhinos which generally pull a 3+. But like you said it isn't everyone's type of unit and if you have good experiences with it then good on you.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[Firedrake28]

Yeah, I'd suggest the autolas Predators too. Since you're not fielding a wall of armor with your current list there's really no reason to run Dreadnoughts or anything else.

[Zhukov]

I'm confused here, some say Dakka Preds are a waste while Baal Preds are good? I think this really depends on how your total list looks like. Baal Preds are 45 points more and this gives you Scout and 'upgrades' the Autocannon to a TL-Asscannon... 45 points!

 

Not to say Baals are suckage (6 Pred armies can be lolzy/decent), but Dakka Preds aren't either. Just get your AT somewhere else. (speeders/MM Attack bikes, Razorbacks, Termies/sternguard)

 

The OP his army in question: Rifleman Dreads or Las/AC Preds could both do, depends a bit on the configurations of the rest of your units. If there is a lot of melta in there already then Rifleman Dreads are fine.