Sanguinary Crusaders (Updated 10/7/16)

[Ace Debonair]

I'm thinking about making different battle brothers with different temperaments handle their feelings of inadequacy and guilt different ways, from self imposed exiles (the personal crusades), to self mutilation of some sort, over obsession on art and stuff like that.

I like that idea - it's a nice reflection of how the Chapter started to fall apart after Raphael's depression.

In fact, you could have these tendencies slowly begin to dawn when Raphael falls into depression, as a further indicator Crusaders have lost their way.

[Arkangilos]

I'm thinking about making different battle brothers with different temperaments handle their feelings of inadequacy and guilt different ways, from self imposed exiles (the personal crusades), to self mutilation of some sort, over obsession on art and stuff like that.

I like that idea - it's a nice reflection of how the Chapter started to fall apart after Raphael's depression.

In fact, you could have these tendencies slowly begin to dawn when Raphael falls into depression, as a further indicator Crusaders have lost their way.

Alright.

So what do you think about the rest? (I did a complete overhaul since the last time you critiqued it, I tried to incorporate some of what you said).

[Ace Debonair]

The rest of it's pretty darn good.

It's definitely much more polished than it used to be!

[Lucernius]

Really love it, the name is Ace! keep up the good work mate its comming along really nice!

[Arkangilos]

The Priesthood

 

Amongst the slight differences, even with others of the gene line, are the roles of the Sanguinary Priests and Chaplains. Unlike the Blood Angels, they do not both preach, nor do they stand equal in title. 

 

The Sanguinary High Priest stands as the spiritual leader of the chapter, and due to the Burden of Guilt, can override commands that are deemed in opposition to the spirit of the chapter. They can also authorize crusades and other actions to rebuild the morale. 

 

Beneath the Sanguinary High Priest stands ten Sanguinary Priests, each assigned to a company to act to the captain and company as the High Priest to the Chapter Master and Chapter. Beneath them are the novitiates. 

 

The Chaplains, rather than act as spiritual guides as in other chapters, act simply as Watchers and Wardens of the Damned. The High Chaplain is instead known as the High Warden, and to him falls the responsibility of guarding and leadership of the Death Company.

 

The Angel of Remission

 

The Sanguinary Crusaders also have a position known as the Angel of Remission. Rather than wait for Astorath to execute those who have fallen, they have dedicated a single, strong willed battle brother. His duty is simple, he executes those that cannot be saved in life. 

 

Because of the Burden of Guilt, this position is an extremely difficult one. In the past, the Angel of Remission would quickly lose his sanity, and so the chapter council got together and decided on a course of action. The Angel of Remission would have his memories wiped upon taking the mantle, and wiped again after each execution. However, this only delays the inevitable, as while the mind can be cleansed, the soul cannot. 

 

Once chosen, the identity of the brother is recorded onto the scroll of sacrifice, where all names of those who have made noble sacrifices to honor Sanguinius would go. His identity is destroyed, his memories erased, and his face permanently covered. The Angel of Remission is not any one man, it is an immortal that releases tortured souls, and sends them to the embrace of Sanguinius and the Emperor.

 

 

 

Here is what I modified in it, so you don't have to read it all.

 

What do you all think?

[Doctor Perils]

Hey, this is pretty good, and nice and grimdark

I'm just disappointed I didn't get to write about my disgraced ex-chapter master's personal crusade before you did oh well, back to the drawing board with that one

So you've got rid of the quest for the grail(s) in the end ?

[Arkangilos]

No, the quest for the Grail is there for my chapter, but it is an ongoing campaign that "just happened" in recent history. Basically, my second company had just completed a campaign, and they were celebrating with a fellow space marine chapter on our strike cruiser. The chapter called themselves the "Red swords" and we're led by a guy with two pistols, and a broken sword. During the feast, a dark angel strike cruiser entered the area on an intercept course and began firing, the Sanguinary Crusaders fought back. Meanwhile, the Red Swords delegation took advantage of the battle and stole the relic, fought their way to a shuttle, went to a waiting rogue trader craft, and left from there.

 

My company was so pissed, and couldn't chase because of the Dark Angels. When the dark Angels tried to sort of chase, the Sanguinary crusaders disabled their engines. Both sides were about to blow each other up until another strike cruiser (belonging to the Ultramarine detachment that took part in the same campaign as my guys), said they would fire on whoever fired next. Eventually we managed to put in a chase, and we met up with replacements to fill in our casualties (putting my company back to full strength), as well as several attached veterans and the Sanguinary High Priest of my chapter himself.

 

That was just he beginning of the campaign.

 

Anyways, there is no reason you also can't do similar quests for grails and stuff. Heck, if you really don't want to, the Grail can be metaphorical (like how Arkangilos said something like that). The Grail can be what you call the Cure, or a long lost ship that belonged to Sanguinius and might have important information from data collected before he died, as well as a whole level of awesome tech.

 

Also, to the personal crusade, that isn't just a thing I came up with. Have you ever read Blood Quest? It's really good. Basically the main character lost a relic from Sanguinius, and was exiled to find it.

 

I'll take a look at your chapter later!

 

P.s.

Feel free to critique and stuff.

[Doctor Perils]

Oh yeah ? a broken sword ? Hummm, wonder who that is...

Yeah, I've heard of blood quest but haven't been able to read it. But that wasn't a self imposed personal crusade, same with any number of other relic-quests in 40k. Oh, and he did have a couple of friends along...

I'll try and give a proper critique later on.

[Doctor Perils]

Hi, I've opened a thread for the group project : http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/313265-knights-of-the-grailwardens-of-the-grailquesting-knights/

[Arkangilos]

Updated. I added a whole section (in spoilers) to the homeworld.

[Atia]

Love that ideas*

[Doctor Perils]

Lot's of great ideas going on here. Some differences from the Blood Angels and Black Templars, that give them identity, without going over the top.

I am however a bit disappointed at the lack of history between the story of Raphael and Arkangilos and the finding of their second homeworld. Eight millenia with near to no detail... Seeing how they functionned as a fleet based chapter would be really interesting, as well as how the chapter is affected by this sudden adoption of a new homeworld: I'm sure that loads of the battle-brothers would be uncertain of this new homeworld considering what happened the last time they stopped moving, which could cause friction within the chapter (and it's always a good idea to have friction )

So, here's my list of C&Cs (sorry for the delay):

1. When you introduce the chapter's new homeworld, you say it's perfect for their needs. It might be nice to say right away why it is perfect.
2. What Warband is Galrak the Soul Thief from, and why is he around at the right moment to attack the Sanguinary Crusaders ? Most warbands have gone to the Eye of Terror to reconstitute their forces.
3. Around what time do these early events take place ? During the Scouring or after ?
4. How many years after the theft of the Blade do the Crusaders go out again ? It sounds as if it's immediately afterwards, and so they haven't really had time to reconstitute their losses. Since the Crusaders chose to settle because they were damaged, and that they then take a further mauling, the chapter is probably in very bad posture: they'll therefore want to take new neophytes, and get new equipment, before going on a new crusade.
5. For Raphael's personal crusade, how does he move about ? Does he take a whole frigate ? Or does he hitch-hike ?
6. Does the chapter have any history after these origins ? I know it might be difficult for the moment to talk about the Red Crusade and the Grail Wardens, since it is a group project, but there are potentially eight or nine millenia of history that you don't touch upon, at least in it's own separate section. Do we know if the Sanguinary Crusaders are still alive and fighting at the dawn of the 42nd millenium, or did they fade away to nothingness through their endless crusades ?
7. In any case, you'll want to describe two or three of the chapter's main actions more precisely. These might be battles or campaigns, but other possibilities also exist.
8. "Stay here, my sons, for this will be your home." seems a bit obvious to me, and I can't see how to explain such a statue without chaos jiggery pokery and/or Sanguinius's visions. I'd suggest something along the lines of "Upon this pedestal shall we build our Empire!" or something like that: a bit more vague and that can be interpreted several ways. To the Inhabitants of Damoria, it could be a message from the Primarch saying that they formed an integral part of the Imperium, but the Sanguinary Crusaders can still interpret it as "stay here!"
9. Why do the Sang Crusaders tolerate the Orks ? This seems very weird to me...
10. I really like the concept of initiation crusades!
11. How can you give the blood to those that resist the thirst during battle before the battle ? (on the eve of campaigns)
12. I like this Burden of Guilt. Would it be possible for you to write on of your battles though, where this Burden of Guilt nearly spelled disaster, because of a captain that became suicidal through his guilt, and tried to take his soldiers to the grave with him, by leading them in a suicidal charge ?
13. I'd probably say that they often shorten the battle cry to "we [will] prevail"

[Arkangilos]

When you introduce the chapter's new homeworld, you say it's perfect for their needs. It might be nice to say right away why it is perfect.

 

 

Good idea. I didn't really think about that. I guess it was just that it has a good pool of potential recruits. Perfect for their needs as a chapter in need of a home world.

 

What Warband is Galrak the Soul Thief from, and why is he around at the right moment to attack the Sanguinary Crusaders ? Most warbands have gone to the Eye of Terror to reconstitute their forces.

 

I haven't really thought about the warband too much. It was just one of the ones that had gone out to wreak havoc. I'm thinking either a Night Lords warband, or a Sons of Horus warband.

 

Around what time do these early events take place ? During the Scouring or after ?

 

 

They take place around the tail end of the scouring. Some warbands are bound to have slipped through the cracks. It bleeds into after the scouring, too.

 

How many years after the theft of the Blade do the Crusaders go out again ? It sounds as if it's immediately afterwards, and so they haven't really had time to reconstitute their losses. 

 

 

You are correct, they did not have time to reconstitute their losses. But it wasn't really something they thought about, they needed it done, with the numbers or not.

 

Since the Crusaders chose to settle because they were damaged, and that they then take a further mauling, the chapter is probably in very bad posture: they'll therefore want to take new neophytes, and get new equipment, before going on a new crusade.

 

 

That was part of what I was trying to get across. Everything about the chapter was dying while the sword was gone. Movie spoilers about the inspiration:

If you have ever seen the movie Excalibur, it's like the scene when Excalibur was taken, and the land started dying. Almost all of the knights died on the quest to find the holy grail to bring King Arthur back from his depressive state. In the case of my chapter, the Holy Grail and Excalibur are the same thing.

 

 

or Raphael's personal crusade, how does he move about ? Does he take a whole frigate ? Or does he hitch-hike ?

 

 

This one was more based off of Blood Quest. I think I'll have him leave with a personal frigate, unless you think that is too much (since he won't be returning).

 

Does the chapter have any history after these origins ? I know it might be difficult for the moment to talk about the Red Crusade and the Grail Wardens, since it is a group project, but there are potentially eight or nine millenia of history that you don't touch upon, at least in it's own separate section. Do we know if the Sanguinary Crusaders are still alive and fighting at the dawn of the 42nd millenium, or did they fade away to nothingness through their endless crusades ?

 

Yes, I actually have quite a few things of history for them now. The Red Crusade, another campaign I am running with my dad and friend (if we ever find time again. Growing up was a stupid choice for all of us, lol). I'm also going to add more to that. 

 

As to the "now" part of the timeline, yeah, they are still kicking. They sent a force to Baal like most of the successors to fight off the coming Tyranids. (I don't consider the James Swallow Blood Angel books to be canon (they contradict the codex, and the codex is law to me when it comes to fluff) so that never happened). 

 

In any case, you'll want to describe two or three of the chapter's main actions more precisely. These might be battles or campaigns, but other possibilities also exist.

Good idea.

 

"Stay here, my sons, for this will be your home." seems a bit obvious to me, and I can't see how to explain such a statue without chaos jiggery pokery and/or Sanguinius's visions.

 

 

Well, it was supposed to be from his visions (He's foreseen quite a bit of stuff). But I get your point. I like yours better, but I'm not a fan of the empire part. Maybe "Upon this pedestal we shall build a new life." That fits with his hope stuff. He's always been known to be inspiring and hopeful.

 

Why do the Sang Crusaders tolerate the Orks ? This seems very weird to me...

 

They don't. Feral Orks appear on every world that has once had orks, there isn't much you can do about it (it's the same as tolerating mold. You don't really tolerate it, but you can't stop it). It's in the same way that there are still mutants on Baal. 

 

The people fight the feral orks, the Sanguinary Crusaders can help the people fight them. They can limit the number of Orks there are, but they will always have *some* presence. 

 

I really like the concept of initiation crusades!

 

Thanks!

 

How can you give the blood to those that resist the thirst during battle before the battle ? (on the eve of campaigns)

 

 

If you don't want someone thirsty during battle, you hydrate them before hand. Honestly, I think I just messed up, though. I meant to have the blood at the conclusion of a campaign. I want to actually put more emphasis on the flaw, though. In all of the stories I have running through my head, they are always competing with their thirst. The codex describes veterans as having learned to control it, so I've had scenes in my head where a battle brother let his thirst guide his blade to cut where blood will spill the easiest and in the larges quantities. The members can sense the heart beat, feel the thumps, stuff like that.

 

In fact, I wanted to make a story where it was about Lord Captain Corvo and his flashbacks from scout to captain. Like the major parts.

 

I also wanted to add a new codex to them. Not an organizational one, but they would have two books. They have the Codex Astartes, and the Codex Sanguine. Much like the Codex Astartes covers everything space marine and how to deal with tactical problems and battle drills, the Codex Sanguine covers everything thirst. It has advice and methods to help curb the thirst, the burden of guilt, and all of that. It would have been compiled and added to by the Sanguinary Priests over their history. It's like an advice book. So upon initiation, once they have awoken from their gene-activation, they are given a compressed Codex Astartes, and the Codex Sanguine.

 

I like this Burden of Guilt. Would it be possible for you to write on of your battles though, where this Burden of Guilt nearly spelled disaster, because of a captain that became suicidal through his guilt, and tried to take his soldiers to the grave with him, by leading them in a suicidal charge ?

 

Great idea!

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. I might not be able to make those changes today, but I'll definitely be making some adjustments.

[Arkangilos]

So I'm going to start working on this again. Also, I am working on a story for the second company/captain of the second company. It is to try and flesh out the feeling of the chapter.

 

You can find it here if you are interested:

Wow, that was embarrassing.

 

I meant here:

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/321669-beginning-a-story-criticism-welcome/?p=4371834&do=findComment&comment=4371834

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Clarification, please.

 

 

Seeing an opportunity for attack, the forces of chaos under the command of EDLAN the Soul Thief launched a full scale war against the weakened and vulnerable chapter. The chapter held, but it was a Pyrrhic victory. In the battle, the planet was laid waste to, and Raphael was knocked unconscious, the Sanguine Blade of Valor, gifted to Raphael by the Primarch himself during the Great Crusade, was stolen.

 

 

Following the path of Arkangilos, Raphael led the chapter to the location of the blade and the one who had wronged their chapter. With deadly determination, the Sanguinary Crusaders struck a deathblow to GALRAK's warband, and the blade was returned.

Emphasis mine.

 

Who's Galrak, and what relationship does he have with "Edlan the Soul Thief"? Did you change the Chaos leader's name while writing a second draft of this IA? Was Galrak a lieutenant of Edlan, who usurped his master and took the Sanguine Blade for himself? Did an Ork Waaagh! destroy Edlan's warband and loot his remains, and Galrak was the Warboss who led the Orks?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Nitpick: "Also, the Librarians also have read armor," should be "Also, the Librarians also have RED armor," (emphasis mine).

[Arkangilos]

Ha, didn't even see these. Great points on both the spelling and bringing up the enemy... Yeah, I changed his name (and am still changing it), but forgot to change it everywhere. I'm planning of fleshing it out a lot more. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Arkangilos]

I am working on these while tried so they probably need refinement, but here are some changes I made.

 

Doctrine Changes

 

Before a lengthy campaign is launched, the Sanguinary Crusaders send out an advance force consisting of a contingent of scouts and chapter serfs. While the scouts are conducting advanced recon and deploying beacons, the serfs are spreading prophecies of the "Divine Justice." Many are prosecuted and die at the hands of heretics, but still the seeds of righteousness are planted in those that would be on the fence. When the main invasion from the Sanguinary Crusaders comes, it comes following the steps of the prophecy. The "prophets" and those that follow them begin to chant and recant the prophecy as the trumpet blares over the communication systems, and vibrates through the air. Following the first trumpet blow, fire rains down from the heavens, burning away first layers of xenos filth or heretical corruption. Upon the second blow of the trumpet, the Crusaders of Sanguinius begin their decent. It is also at this time that all those loyal to the Imperium, or all of those swayed by the preaching of the "prophets" rise up to fight, creating a mass of fanatical redemption cults in an attempt to save their lives and souls from the Emperor's Wrath. When enemy is finally broken and victory is achieved, the third and final blow of the trumpet will be heard, and all of those who had joined the Redemption Cult are assembled to await judgement. The judgement is not as indepth as one passed by the Inquisition, and if the inquisition in present, the chapter will always defer to the Inquisition for judgement. At times they would execute a number of them, at other times the redemption cults would work out their own punishments as the "Prophets" return to the chapter and their chosen replacements from the local populations are given their instructions. Regardless, the world is usually left in a state of fanatical fervor towards Sanguinius, Dorn, and the Emperor, a fanatical fervor matching that of the Crusaders.  

 

 

Priesthood Changes

 

Amongst the slight differences, even with others of the gene line, are the roles of the Sanguinary Priests and Chaplains. Unlike the Blood Angels, they are not separate organizations. Sanguinary Priesthood is a dual faced organization, with the Sanguinary Crusaders serving as the wardens of the living and righteous, and the chaplains serving as the wardens of the dead and the damned. This also means that Chaplains have a rudimentary knowledge of collecting geneseed and training as an apothecary. However, this is mostly utilized in collecting the geneseed of those in the Death Company.  

 

The Sanguinary High Priest is the highest ranking member of the priesthood, and stands as an equal to the Chapter Master. The Sanguinary High Priest is in charge of all matters involving the priesthood, and has the power to veto and override the Chapter Master at any time. All matters of faith, war, and promotion must first be submitted and reviewed by the priesthood.

 

To be selected for the priesthood is a great honor, and every squad recognizes two members based on merit. One will be marked with a white cord, and one with a black cord. Each will receive additional training as potential additions to the priesthood. When a Sanguinary Priest or Chaplain dies, one of the brothers with the respective cord will be selected to be admitted into the Priesthood.

[Volt]

Quick question, what program did you use for that map? Looks gorgeous.

[Arkangilos]

I used photoshop, and thank you!

 

It's surprisingly good for even creating stuff.

[Doctor Perils]

I like the new update Arkangilos :) I think it fits well with the crusading chapter, and with followers of Sanguinius :)

[Miyu]

I have just read the background and story of your Crusaders.
I love the feel you give them and they seem very much the tragic sons of Sanguinius. I had the idea that they share a similar fate as the Blood Angels themselves. The underlying theme is the in sync with them, yet your story is much different as well.

I like it alot, and many of the ideas are new and interesting. I enjoyed reading about their way of focussing on something intently in order to battle the flaw that resides within them. Kinda like the Eldar and their paths in order not to give in to their darker desires.

Really excellent work!
 

[Arkangilos]

Thank you Thorn and Miyu!

[Arkangilos]

Updated the Belief section with the following:

 

"That is an understandable question, neophyte. Why are we inflicted with the terrible curse of the Black Rage? Because of our Father's Sacrifice. He sacrificed himself so that humanity may endure, so that it could be saved. The Black Rage is a reminder of that sacrifice, a pure vision of that monumental decision. We too, must sacrifice ourselves in honor of him, despite how unworthy those mortals are of it. We must die so that they can live. However, when our appointed time to make that sacrifice comes we often miss it. It is when we miss it that the Black Rage takes hold. We failed to live up to His example, and so He reminds us, through the Black Rage. It is not a curse, but a blessing. It is a salvation for us, it is for us to atone for the Sin of Life. Remember that, and do not be afraid." Brother Chaplain Geraldi to Neophyte Corvo after a member of his squad fell to the Black Rage.

 

Unlike the Blood Angels, the Sanguinary Crusaders often do not think of the Black Rage as a curse. Rather, many of them think of it as an atonement for living when their appointed time of sacrifice has come and passed. They believe that Sanguinius' sacrifice set a precedent for them to follow, and that each of them has an appointed hour in which they will make the ultimate sacrifice for the benefit of the Imperium. It is widely held by the priesthood that living through that appointed hour means that they have selfishly denied the work of their father, and that to have survived it is a great sin. They therefore consider the Black Rage to be the spiritual reminder of their duties, and that it is the path to redemption. In this sense, those that fell to the Black Rage were already damned, and that the Black Rage is actually the only means of salvation.