Best ways to assemble a terminator squad

[Token]

I bought a squad of Grey Knight termies and want 3 with swords and 2 with hammers and a psi cannon.

What is the best way to assemble the figures? Why?

[Valerian]

I bought a squad of Grey Knight termies and want 3 with swords and 2 with hammers and a psi cannon.

What is the best way to assemble the figures? Why?

 

With plastic cement. Nothing else will get as good a bond, and with less likelihood of making a mess.

 

V

[Token]

I didnt mean like that, i ment which weapon is best used with which weapon- hammer with psicannon, or sword with psicannon?

[number6]

One of the better ways to build standard Terminator units is psycannon, 4 halberds, 1 hammer, 225 pts. To maximize wound allocation shenanigans, you'd end up with 1x psycannon/halberd, 3x halberd, 1x hammer.

 

Why no swords, you may ask? Because the best defense in 40K is a good offense. It's better to strike down the vast majority of close combatants at I6 instead of depending on a 4+ invul save to help you out at I4. Kill 'em dead first, you won't even have to test your 5+ invul save. And you keep one hammer in there because it makes the squad capable of fending off monstrous creatures and walkers, and also lets you put easy 2+ wounds on any infantry. But majority halberds is the order of the day.

[GrayF0x3813]

I run my termies the same way, halbreds on 4 guys, a psycannon or psyliencer (depending on points and enemy) on one of the halbred guys and then a hammer guy to take care of tanks and creatures.. It is very effective and rather versitile.

[RedemptionNL]

To maximize wound allocation shenanigans, you'd end up with 1x psycannon/halberd, 3x halberd, 1x hammer.

 

Unless you want to master-craft the hammer, it's better to put it on a regular Terminator. Then you'd get 1x Psycannon/Halberd, 2x Halberd, 1x Daemonhammer and 1x Justicar with Halberd. Unlike C:SM Assault Termies' Sergeant, the Justicar is different in gameplay terms because of the Brotherhood of Psykers rule.

[DarkGuard]

To maximize wound allocation shenanigans, you'd end up with 1x psycannon/halberd, 3x halberd, 1x hammer.

 

Unless you want to master-craft the hammer, it's better to put it on a regular Terminator. Then you'd get 1x Psycannon/Halberd, 2x Halberd, 1x Daemonhammer and 1x Justicar with Halberd. Unlike C:SM Assault Termies' Sergeant, the Justicar is different in gameplay terms because of the Brotherhood of Psykers rule.

 

This is a good point. Quick question, would you prefer to master-craft the thunder hammer, or go for maximum wound allocation?

 

Also, I imagine that for a 10 man squad, you would simply double the squad as it were. So another psycannon, another four halberds, and another daemonhammer?

[shan vener]

mine are built as

5 termies, 2 halberds, 2 swords, 1 hammer, psycannon, psybolt ammunition

[number6]

Also, I imagine that for a 10 man squad, you would simply double the squad as it were. So another psycannon, another four halberds, and another daemonhammer?

Yep!

[RedemptionNL]

For a 10 men squad you don't intend on combat squadding, a Brotherhood Banner could be nice.

[Kay]

I go full halberds in regular terminators. Giving them halberds instead of swords turns them from "combat ok" into "combat omg". 1 hammer+4 halberds is the choice i make. In a squad of 10, double that, 2 hammers, 8 halberds.

For paladins i go like this:

Halberd

Sword

Halberd+Psycannon

Sword+Psycannon

Hammer

 

For wound allocation thing and stuff

 

Oh, give them ALWAYS Psycannons everytime you can.

[DarkGuard]

What are people's views on a 5 man squad of Terminators with incinerator? Assuming that you already have a big squad with psycannon to hold midfield, this squad's job would be to drop onto an enemy held objective, or isolated enemy unit and hit them with the incinerator. Halberds and a hammer I guess for better close combat. Thoughts?

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Incinerators suffer from being less essential than psycannons. Our Terminators already curb-stomp horde infantry hard (storm bolter dakka+S5 I6 power weapons tend to have that effect), while unless you get luck with the hammer guy it's hard for Terminators (or the army in general) to deal with enemy vehicles. More's the pity, because incinerators are pretty amazing anti-infantry weapons.

[Token]

Why no warding staves, or what they are called, to help against those marine seargents? They still work like a force weapon, right?

[Daedalus Templarius]

I usually mix a psycannon and incinerator in my squads. The incinerator kills stuff hugging cover dead. But other than that, the more halberds the better + 1 daemonhammer.

[breng77]

Why no warding staves, or what they are called, to help against those marine seargents? They still work like a force weapon, right?

 

I think the issue is that they only work in CC, and they cost a lot of points, if they were an all the time thing they would be worth the points, but for use only in CC, I don't think they work all that well.

[Mordrak]

I personally magnetised all my guys It's not as daunting as it sounds and allows you to try as many different combinations as you like. This gives you the ability to not only see which loadout suits your style of play but also allows you to adapt your army should you want to try something new...

 

If you are nervous about magnetising your little guys I've put a post up on my grey knights of Titan blog...please feel free to have a look and see whether you fancy attempting it and feel free to drop me a post if you have any questions

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Why no warding staves, or what they are called, to help against those marine seargents? They still work like a force weapon, right?

 

Because they made them too expensive for what you get. The sword is free and gives anything in TDA +1 to invul (and only works in combat). You pay a huge premium to boost up essentially by 3, and again only in close-combat. That said, if you can find the points spare (drop a Rhino out or something), it's a great choice on Librarians. At range, the Libby can just hide in Terminator/Paladin squads, but in close-combat he'll get picked out by heroes with better close-combat ability and crushed into paste. Stave lets you shrug off such carnage and keep buffing the Terminators/Paladins with your super-ninja powers.

[DevianID]

My random musing...

 

First, Halberds are not useful. Why? Because while in a vacuum they seem great, in my area the CC enemies to watch out for are THSS termies. The init6 is of no use here, while that extra inv save is a huge boon. All my other threats either cant deal with 5 termies, or if they can deal with 5 termies then Halberds wont help. Sure there are some times when those 4 halberds will be amazing, but more often than not 12/8 init6 attacks wont take the fangs out of your init 4/5 enemy.

 

Second, the codex is unfinished. Without an FAQ no one can say how Falchions will be played, either with 1 attack or 2. Falchions with 2 attacks are potent enough to be worth the 5 points, and if your gameplan is to only have 5 termies anyway doubling their base attacks for 25 points is kind of amazing, as without those extra attacks horde style units can beat you with numbers.

 

Third, 5 termies that are not paladins seems like only half the unit. 5 troop termies should either come with another 5 termies that you have the option to combat squad or a transport. Either the extra termies or the transport will change what you expect of the 5 man squad, and without knowing what direction your army is headed I dont think there is a 'single best way' to equip 5 termies--too many unanswered questions.

[Daedalus Templarius]

First, Halberds are not useful. Why? Because while in a vacuum they seem great, in my area the CC enemies to watch out for are THSS termies. The init6 is of no use here, while that extra inv save is a huge boon. All my other threats either cant deal with 5 termies, or if they can deal with 5 termies then Halberds wont help. Sure there are some times when those 4 halberds will be amazing, but more often than not 12/8 init6 attacks wont take the fangs out of your init 4/5 enemy.

 

"in your area"

 

not everyone only fights TH/SS terminators all the time. While it might not be useful for you, it could be very useful against other matchups.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

First, Halberds are not useful. Why? Because while in a vacuum they seem great, in my area the CC enemies to watch out for are THSS termies. The init6 is of no use here, while that extra inv save is a huge boon. All my other threats either cant deal with 5 termies, or if they can deal with 5 termies then Halberds wont help. Sure there are some times when those 4 halberds will be amazing, but more often than not 12/8 init6 attacks wont take the fangs out of your init 4/5 enemy.

 

Silly, you don't fight the Stormhammers in close-combat, they always win that punchup. You shoot them to death from range (2+ saves break, or 3+ if you can scrounge up enough plasma to make it worthwhile). Incidentally, GK Terminators are passable at slicing up Stormhammers (not good, just not as bad as other units) due to hitting first and wounding on 3's if you get 'Hammerhand' going. I wouldn't resort to that until you'd shot them down to size though (1-2 you can take, 5 is just going to rip you apart).

 

Halberds are complete win, the only thing they can't do is kill high Toughness stuff or vehicles (especially Dreadnoughts). Thats why you take a hammer or two as insurance. But srsly, I6 Terminators make everyone cry.

 

Second, the codex is unfinished. Without an FAQ no one can say how Falchions will be played, either with 1 attack or 2. Falchions with 2 attacks are potent enough to be worth the 5 points, and if your gameplan is to only have 5 termies anyway doubling their base attacks for 25 points is kind of amazing, as without those extra attacks horde style units can beat you with numbers.

 

Not unfinished, just unclear (like most GW rules lol). Don't worry, I'm sure they'll put a FAQ out eventually. Until then, play it as 2 attacks and laugh (because opponents can't contradict you).

 

Third, 5 termies that are not paladins seems like only half the unit. 5 troop termies should either come with another 5 termies that you have the option to combat squad or a transport. Either the extra termies or the transport will change what you expect of the 5 man squad, and without knowing what direction your army is headed I dont think there is a 'single best way' to equip 5 termies--too many unanswered questions.

 

Or maybe not all of us like running huge point sinks? Discussing 5-man squads is relevant, because that's often all you can afford (especially at 1.5k). In my ideal world, Troop Terminators get access to double psycannon (and quad at 10-man). In reality, you make do with what exists.

There is a pretty clear 'best way', it's the one that doesn't suck the most. Halberds beat every other option easily, the only reason a hammer is needed is to counteract high Toughness things and vehicles. If falchions are finalised as being +2A, I'll just take my chances with 'Quicksilver'. Until then though, halberds all the way.

[DevianID]

Opponents can and will contradict falchions being 1 or 2 attacks. It has already happened. Arguing RAW means Dreadknights with teleporters are not MCs. If only falchions needed an FAQ I would agree with you and let my friends QQ about it, but with such an unclear codex RAW is a HORRID way to play the GKs, as if you dont play the entire codex RAW you are simply cherrypicking RAI and RAW for advantage.

 

As for Halberds being 'win' and 'the best,' I have done extensive playtesting on that matter. I used THSS as an example because its pretty much the biggest example in my area, as I stated, but really 5 guys with 4 halberds is not that great, and CERTAINLY not the best setup. If anything I would prefer 5 hammers over a mix of hammers and halberds, as 5 hammers are always useful when they swing while halberds are not useful at all versus some opponents.

 

I am not gonna repost my findings AGAIN just for laughs; perhaps you can give me some examples of when 8 (12 on the charge) init 6 attacks is always superior to 8 (12 on the charge) init 4 attacks with a better invuln save. We already know by mutual admission that swords and falchions are better versus THSS termies than Halberds. Plus it goes without saying that orks, guard, tau, necrons, sisters, and plague marines dont care about init 6, as well as every single vehicle in the game thats not a dread, and for dreads you need init1 hammers anyway. That leaves Eldar, Dark Eldar, Daemons, Marine flavors, and Tyranids. Vanillia marines only have 1 great CC unit, THSS termies, which we covered. Daemons and 'Nids dont have grenades, so with a bit of cover (or sanctuary if available) halberds on termies are again rendered ineffectual when being charged, and if you took a librarian with init10 then halberds are rendered ineffectual on your turn too.

 

So, now that we have culled a huge number of armies, situations and unit types where halberds are NOT better, are you still insisting that 4 halberds with only 8 attacks is always the right answer in a 5 man squad?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I do think based upon what we know up to this point the best choice is four halberds, one daemonhammer and a psycannon per five GK terms. I would also take psybolt ammo as well but that is just me. You really need the daemonhammer irregardless of the other choices - I think that's a given. Personally I like the falchion simply for the coolness factor... +1A is still okay.

 

I really don't want a squad of five GKT in melee with thunder termies... The extra attack I don't believe is really going to make a big difference - neither will the 4++ save in melee if you run the mathammer. Assume Hammerhand is always successfully cast for the following examples:

 

Five thunder termies (all equipped w. TH/SS) versus five GKT (4x sword + dh):

 

> Thunder termies charge:

* 8 attacks from GKT swords - 4 hit & 3 wound -> 1 failed save

* 8 attacks from thunder termies (psykout grenades are defensive) - 4 hit and 4 wound -> 2 dead GKT (!daemonhammer)

* 2 daemonhammer attacks - 1 hits & 1 wound -> no failed saves

 

Assume the GKT do not break...

 

* 6 attacks from GKT swords - 3 hit & 2 wound -> no failed save

* 8 attacks from thunder termies - 4 hit & 4 wound -> 2 failed saves (incl. daemonhammer)

 

GKT will either break or destroyed the next round of melee. There are still 3-4 thunder termies left.

 

Now suppose the GKT have four pairs of falchions (+2A) and a hammer...

 

> GKT charge:

* 20 attacks from falchions - 10 hit & 6 wound -> 2 failed saves

* 6 attacks from thunder termies - 3 hit and 3 wound -> 2 failed saves (!daemonhammer)

* 3 attacks from daemonhammer - 2 hit & 2 wound - no failed save

 

Next round of melee...

 

* 8 attacks from falchions - 4 hit & 3 wounds -> 1 failed save

* 4 attacks from thunder termies - 2 hit & 2 wound -> 2 failed saves (!daemonhammer)

* 2 attacks from daemonhammer 1 hit & 1 wound -> no failed saves

 

So only one terminator left in each unit, stormshield for the win here.

 

So like I said it's best to simply avoid this assault if possible, even with 2+ attacks your higher priced unit gets powned.

 

G :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

In regards to I6 not being all that useful it will help versus BA CC units charging with the FC bonus. It really makes the BA stop and think do they really want some of that.

 

G :)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Opponents can and will contradict falchions being 1 or 2 attacks. It has already happened. Arguing RAW means Dreadknights with teleporters are not MCs. If only falchions needed an FAQ I would agree with you and let my friends QQ about it, but with such an unclear codex RAW is a HORRID way to play the GKs, as if you dont play the entire codex RAW you are simply cherrypicking RAI and RAW for advantage.

 

Yeah, but they can't have it both ways. Either, Dreadknights can be carried in Stormravens, or they can't. I get what you mean though, it's easier to avoid the whole mess. I'm just an obstinate kinda person :)

 

As for Halberds being 'win' and 'the best,' I have done extensive playtesting on that matter. I used THSS as an example because its pretty much the biggest example in my area, as I stated, but really 5 guys with 4 halberds is not that great, and CERTAINLY not the best setup. If anything I would prefer 5 hammers over a mix of hammers and halberds, as 5 hammers are always useful when they swing while halberds are not useful at all versus some opponents.

 

You mean, you just fought Stormhammers again and again. Thats not 'extensive', thats replicating the same expecting different results. Have you, for example, playtested against Black Templar Assault Terminators (who do horrible things to slower infantry). Or a Hive Tyrant? Daemon Prince? Incubi? Genestealers?

 

I never said halberds are the best match-up vs Stormhammers, I said they're the best generalist setup. I'll say it again, do not engage Stormhammers unless you have already shot their legs off (ie they are down to 1-2 dudes). Unlike our awesome Termies, they give up their ranged output for insane survivability and consistent close-combat damage.

 

I am not gonna repost my findings AGAIN just for laughs; perhaps you can give me some examples of when 8 (12 on the charge) init 6 attacks is always superior to 8 (12 on the charge) init 4 attacks with a better invuln save. We already know by mutual admission that swords and falchions are better versus THSS termies than Halberds.

 

I didn't say that. More to the point, a slightly better invul from swords isn't that much of a boost. I'd agree falchions are better in that scenario, but they're more limited (as in, if you're fighting anything except Stormhammers, I'd prefer halberds). The issue with falchions is they quickly add up, whereas halberds and hammers are free.

Whether you get the charge or not is tricky to say, because there are many ways both squads can be deployed (Stormraven, Landraider, footslog, Deepstrike, Gate of Infinity/Summoning). You can do the math either way, but I'd still wager the Stormhammers come out on top (assuming both squads at full strength).

 

Plus it goes without saying that orks, guard, tau, necrons, sisters, and plague marines dont care about init 6, as well as every single vehicle in the game thats not a dread, and for dreads you need init1 hammers anyway

 

Well, 'Might of Titan' is actually a better Dreadnought killer than hammers, and again by preference I'd blow a Dreadnought up from range before risking my pricey Terminators in combat with one. As for other tanks, it'll be rare you'll catch one anyway, and you always have krak grenades for free (or turn on 'Hammerhand' for a slightly lower Strength but using all your attacks). The hammer is insurance, it's not exactly reliable but better than nothing if you can't get 'Might' to work, or if the Dread drop pods in and your anti-tank can't kill it before it charges.

 

. That leaves Eldar, Dark Eldar, Daemons, Marine flavors, and Tyranids. Vanillia marines only have 1 great CC unit, THSS termies, which we covered. Daemons and 'Nids dont have grenades, so with a bit of cover (or sanctuary if available) halberds on termies are again rendered ineffectual when being charged, and if you took a librarian with init10 then halberds are rendered ineffectual on your turn too.

 

The point being though that you can't rely on psychic powers or cover to always be available. Other dedicated assault units will take apart our Terminators, 4+ invul save or not, because they'll go first. I always take 'Quicksilver', but halberds mean I don't often have to cast it (thus meaning if I would rather cast something else, like combining 'Might' and 'Hammerhand', I can).

 

So, now that we have culled a huge number of armies, situations and unit types where halberds are NOT better, are you still insisting that 4 halberds with only 8 attacks is always the right answer in a 5 man squad?

 

Not really. I guess it's a matter of perspective, but I'll sum up my argumentation;

 

- Falchions are better, but they cost points

- Halberds and hammers are free upgrades, and they solve our twin problems of speed and hitting power vs vehicles/tough stuff

- Swords are default, but their bonus is quite pathetic next to the alternatives

 

In terms of 'stuff that actually scares me in combat', here is my short-hand;

 

- Armies with close-combat units with I5 or higher: Blood Angels, Black Templars, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tyranids, Daemons, Chaos Marines, Space Marines

 

In an ideal world, I buy falchions and cast 'Quicksilver', and thats my best build. In reality however, I may need my Librarian elsewhere, or his powers may fail/be blocked. It's about building your army so that when things don't go your way, you have redundancy built in. 'Oh, I didn't get Quicksilver going, but I'm still going ahead of the mooks, your hero will go same/ahead though'.

 

Close-combats are almost always won by two out of three factors; speed, damage or resilience. In my experience, squads rarely engage eachother at full strength, and if they do speed is what it boils down to. Even Stormhammers can get rolled by Assault Marines or Orks, it's about drowning them in wounds inflicted, and more the point before you can start hitting back and reducing said incoming damage. Speed and damage output are the two consistent ones for me, resilience is often overrated, because it can be negated more easily. Due to our built-in frags, it's rare for the enemy to reduce your Initiative, and even without 'Hammerhand' there are few things that will withstand S4 power weapons happily.

 

 

So like I said it's best to simply avoid this assault if possible, even with 2+ attacks your higher priced unit gets powned.

 

Thanks for the breakdown man, proves what I've been trying to say. Even with swords, your still up poo creek, and falchions are only marginally better. Just avoid the Stormhammer rock, chip them down to size with massed fire (which we have built in, unlike regular Marines), then assault the remnants later on if you have to.

 

40k is never about pitting your close-combat vs enemy close-combat squad. Like in chess, thats pretty much a wash, not a victory, because you're just trading like for like. Avoid the Stormhammers, eat his Tactical and Biker squads (or equivalents in other armies). Both squads are slow, but unlike Stormhammers you don't have to get into combat to achieve something, you still have your ranged firepower to contribute. He'll probably be attempting to do the same to you, so avoid the obvious target and concentrate killing stuff that can't fight back. TL;DR don't fight fair :P