Grey Knight chapter Organization chart

[Dukerocco]

I love grey knights and all the fluff but when i started collecting about a year ago i was dissapointed they didnt have an org chart. So see that my over all goal was to be able to field a company in our apoc games like some of my friends i set out to make a chart. What is presented here is a third draft with new items from the new codex of what may be a org chart.

 

Items in() are considered outside the normal 100 man make up of grey knights wether they are body guards or leaders.

Back ground:

Eight Grand masters- one for each of the brotherhoods

One hundred battle-brothers- per brotherhood

Brotherhood officers-Brother Captain, Brotherhood champion, Grand Master

Brother-Captain- Commands the brother Hood

Brotherhood Champion

Grand Master- Holds final responsibility over the brotherhood

Ten Man squads

Three to seven units of each-terminators, purgation, strike squads

Each led by a justcar

Purifiers- are additional but separate brotherhoods

Paladins are Body guards of the grand masters

This is the first three brotherhoods but there mostly the same with slight variations.

Purifier’s

1st Brotherhood

Castellan Crowe

Librarian

40 Purifier Squads

4 Venerable Dreadnoughts

3 Dreadnoughts

 

2st Brotherhood

Grand Master Mordrak -1 Paladin Squad-Body guards

Brother-Captain

Brotherhood Champion

Librarian

4 Terminator Squads

2 Purgation Squads

2 Strike Squads

2 Nemesis Dreadknight

1 Venerable Dreadnought

3 Dreadnoughts

 

3nd Brotherhood

Grand Master -1 Paladin Squad

Brother-Captain Stern

Brotherhood Champion

Librarian

2 Terminator Squads

3 Purifier Squads

2 Purgation Squads

2 Strike Squads

2 Nemesis Dreadknight

1 Venerable Dreadnought

2 Dreadnoughts

[Custodian Athiair]

as far as i've read i thought the purifiers weren't a Brotherhood they were just a completely seperate to the rest of the chapter. of course i may be wrong - but thats just as i saw it.

 

secondly i thought that Grand Masters became seperate from their original brotherhood. and there is in fact 8 Brother Captains each in charge of a Brotherhood.

again i may be completely wrong :)

 

i think thats everything i noticed about it :)

 

Athiair :)

[DarkGuard]

Talking about Purifiers, you've got 40 Purifier squads at the moment. I mean, I know they're amazing and likely to be overused and spammed from now till the next Codex, but 400 Purifiers if just wishful thinking ;).

 

Also, again, like Custodian Athiair I was under the impression that Purifiers were not included in the 8 Brotherhoods, but are an order set apart. That would make sense, as their numbers are not fixed, but most likely always low.

 

Also, at least in Space Marines, the command staff of each Company normally isn't included in the Company count. If you look at the organisation for the Ultramarines, in particular the one for the 2nd Company, they have 10 squads of 10, and then the Captain, Chaplain and the Command squad, so they number 107 men, plus support, Dreads etc. I don't see how this would be different here, with the Grand Master, Brother-Captain, Brotherhood Champion and Paladin squads not being included in the 100 Marine count of the Brotherhood. Instead there will likely be 10 squads of 10 Grey Knights, plus command staff, so we're looking at 108 men per Brotherhoods, plus support. Remember that Librarians and Techmarines will likely have their own seperate formations outside of the 800. I believe the 800 just refers to the 8 Brotherhoods 10x10 squads excluding the Command staff.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that in the Terminator fluff it does mention that they can outfit pretty much all their members in Terminator armour. This makes it hard to have the classic split in squads. A Battle Company has 6 Tactical squads, 2 Assault squads and 2 Devastator squads. The 1st Company of many Chapters may only have 4 Terminator squads due to lack of Terminator armour, and then have a shifting amount of Sternguard and Vanguard squads, depending on how many Veterans favour one style of war over the other. The Grey Knights are largely going to be undefined, they have the Terminator armour to equip everyone with it (nearly). It therefore won't be as straight forward as 4x Terminator squad, 2x Interceptor squads etc. The idea I'm getting is that they only deploy in power armour when it suits the mission, they're flexible. The only squad I can imagine nearly always deploying in power armour are Purgation squads, as it mentions that Grey Knights joining them pretty much stick with them. However, I could be wrong. This is, of course, discounting Purifiers, who always seem to take to battle in power armour.

 

I'm not saying any of this to discourage you, but given the lack of actual ratios it will be hard. However, don't give up, it's a fantastic project, and hopefully it'll go together well. :lol:

[Angelis Mortis]

Talking about Purifiers, you've got 40 Purifier squads at the moment. I mean, I know they're amazing and likely to be overused and spammed from now till the next Codex, but 400 Purifiers if just wishful thinking ;).

 

May of been a typo. Probably meant 4 Squads. It says in the fluff there are usually less than a few score. To me that would be 3-5 x20. Two would be "a couple score" and 6+ would be "many score" IMHO. 3-5 fits right in that "few" area. So I would say no more than 60-100 Purifiers at any one time.

[DarkGuard]

Talking about Purifiers, you've got 40 Purifier squads at the moment. I mean, I know they're amazing and likely to be overused and spammed from now till the next Codex, but 400 Purifiers if just wishful thinking :).

 

May of been a typo. Probably meant 4 Squads. It says in the fluff there are usually less than a few score. To me that would be 3-5 x20. Two would be "a couple score" and 6+ would be "many score" IMHO. 3-5 fits right in that "few" area. So I would say no more than 60-100 Purifiers at any one time.

 

I knew it was a typo, I'm not that stupid. Hence the winky smiley sitting at the end of that sentence

 

As for the number, he most likely got his number from page 12, the Chapter Organization section, which states that there are rarely more than 40 Purifiers at a time, and that if there is a greater number than that it generally means bad things are going to happen.

[Oiad]

Dukerocco, have you been going around to each forum asking the same question? Recently, I responded to a very similar query on the Heresy forums.

[Dukerocco]

Hey thanks guys, and yes i have asked this question on another forum. About the purifiers its not 40 squads but just 40 purifiers so your right it was a typo. On the other hand it does say in the codex under purifiers and palidens in the org section that both are seporate but purifiers are considered a "seporate and entirely unique brotherhood", so am i just understanding this wrong?

Also you are all right about the grandmasters and the HQ staff, i included them as a way to keep track of what i have as i build up my models for a brotherhood. So for that part the only reason there included is to make it easier for me.

 

THe key questions i have is about what vehicles each brotherhood have at there disposal?

Do i have the dreadnoughts right or am i adding to many to the brotherhood?

[Dukerocco]

Talking about Purifiers, you've got 40 Purifier squads at the moment. I mean, I know they're amazing and likely to be overused and spammed from now till the next Codex, but 400 Purifiers if just wishful thinking :jaw:.

 

Also, again, like Custodian Athiair I was under the impression that Purifiers were not included in the 8 Brotherhoods, but are an order set apart. That would make sense, as their numbers are not fixed, but most likely always low.

 

Also, at least in Space Marines, the command staff of each Company normally isn't included in the Company count. If you look at the organisation for the Ultramarines, in particular the one for the 2nd Company, they have 10 squads of 10, and then the Captain, Chaplain and the Command squad, so they number 107 men, plus support, Dreads etc. I don't see how this would be different here, with the Grand Master, Brother-Captain, Brotherhood Champion and Paladin squads not being included in the 100 Marine count of the Brotherhood. Instead there will likely be 10 squads of 10 Grey Knights, plus command staff, so we're looking at 108 men per Brotherhoods, plus support. Remember that Librarians and Techmarines will likely have their own seperate formations outside of the 800. I believe the 800 just refers to the 8 Brotherhoods 10x10 squads excluding the Command staff.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that in the Terminator fluff it does mention that they can outfit pretty much all their members in Terminator armour. This makes it hard to have the classic split in squads. A Battle Company has 6 Tactical squads, 2 Assault squads and 2 Devastator squads. The 1st Company of many Chapters may only have 4 Terminator squads due to lack of Terminator armour, and then have a shifting amount of Sternguard and Vanguard squads, depending on how many Veterans favour one style of war over the other. The Grey Knights are largely going to be undefined, they have the Terminator armour to equip everyone with it (nearly). It therefore won't be as straight forward as 4x Terminator squad, 2x Interceptor squads etc. The idea I'm getting is that they only deploy in power armour when it suits the mission, they're flexible. The only squad I can imagine nearly always deploying in power armour are Purgation squads, as it mentions that Grey Knights joining them pretty much stick with them. However, I could be wrong. This is, of course, discounting Purifiers, who always seem to take to battle in power armour.

 

I'm not saying any of this to discourage you, but given the lack of actual ratios it will be hard. However, don't give up, it's a fantastic project, and hopefully it'll go together well. :)

 

Your right and it all makes sence, yet i was under the impresion that once a battle brother switch to terminator armour there was no going back? Also would veteran battle brothers only be worth to trust with such a special armour piece. If yes then my idea was strike squads and guys in power armour were relatively new or inexperienced knights. YEs/No?

[DarkGuard]

Well the Grey Knights Codex says that pretty much all their Marines can fight in Terminators. I'm guessing the guys they can't equip in those situations would be Purifiers and Purgation squads, perhaps Interceptors. The thing is, the way I understood it is that all Strike squads and Interceptor squads contain Grey Knights who can deploy in Terminators, but who have chosen not to for this battle, whether by their own free will or the will of their Commander. This is where the profile of the squad seems a bit illogical, as if this is the case then surely they'd all have the same attacks and leadership, although I can understand the idea that Terminator armour has Terminator Honours etc.

 

However, I have just re-read the Chapter Organization section again, and it does mention that there are permanent Purgation and Strike squads in the Brotherhood, with there being between 3-7 squads of Terminators, Strike squads and Purgation squads, adding up to 10 squads of course. I'd imagine Interceptors are basically Strike squads given teleporters, given the fact that they have the same unit page and psychic powers. So I was wrong about that. I'd imagine the most common one is 5 Terminator squads of 10, 3 Strike/Interceptor squads of 10 men, and 2 Purgation squads of 10 men. Well, if I were a Grand Master that would be my composition, the Codex does say that there is no fixed ratio, but that unfortunately makes it harder to actually give a composition.

 

About Purifiers, I believe the Codex uses the term brotherhood loosely, as in not they are a brotherhood of warriors, much like a Grey Knight squad. I would be very surprised if they actually comprised the first Company.

 

So, 8 Companies of 100 warriors, plus Command staff gives us at least 824 warriors (not including Paladins). We then have Draigo, although he doesn't count as he's in the Warp all the time. I'll assume there's roughly 5 Paladin's to a hero, so we'll looking at 40-80, depending on whether we're including 5 for each Brother-Captain and Grand Master, or just the Grand Master. Purifiers are said to normally be 40 strong, so we're looking at 904-944. Add in Libby's, Apothecaries, Techmarines and Prognosticars, and we're looking at around 1000 in the end.

[jeffersonian000]

I can see 100 Terminators per Brotherhood (as they can outfit all of their kingths in TDA), netting 800 GKT. Attached to this are several units of Strike/Interceptors, at probably 25 knights per brotherhood (the remaining 200 divided between the 8 Brotherhoods). Each Brotherhood has a Grandmaster, a Brother-Captain a Champion, at least one Librarian (it not more, but probably less than 5), one or more Techmarines, a unit of Paladins, all their vehicle pilots, and a few Dreadnoughts. That's 1,000 knights and 20-30 supernumeraries, which equals a codex chapter in size. Purifiers, as was stated, exist outside this formation, so might number somewhere between 60-90 (6 troops, 3 elites, and a HQ, if you go by a single FoC).

 

SJ

[DarkGuard]

The problem with that jeffersonian000 is that page 12 clearly states that GKTs, Strike squads and Purgation squads are included in the 100 Marine count of a Brotherhood, with there typically being between 3-7 of each squad depending on the Grand Master. The same page also tells us that the average amount of Purifiers are 40, although there can be more at certain times. I'd say the ability for Crowe to be taken and result in mass Purifier spam shouldn't be taken as an indicator for fluff. However, that being said it's feasible that there could be 90 Purifiers in one place at the same time, it just means some massive trouble is going on, and the future of that entire sector could be at stake.

[jeffersonian000]

"On paper, each of the Chapter's eight Brotherhoods contains roughly one hundred Battle-Brothers under arms."

 

The terms "on paper" and "roughly" are commonly use to referrence estimates, which means that would you have may not be what's on the books. However, I bow out to your wisdom.

 

SJ

[DarkGuard]

"On paper, each of the Chapter's eight Brotherhoods contains roughly one hundred Battle-Brothers under arms."

 

The terms "on paper" and "roughly" are commonly use to referrence estimates, which means that would you have may not be what's on the books. However, I bow out to your wisdom.

 

SJ

 

No you're all right there jeffersonian000, didn't quite read that bit properly then. Suppose I'm too used to the Space Marine organization chart where everything's pretty much fixed apart from the Scout Company, and possibly the Veteran Company.

[Iron Lord]

In the Grey Knights novels they have chaplains as well- though I think they don't normally go into battle.

 

Should they be deemed still present- since the GK codex does not specifically retcon them away, but just doesn't mention them?

[Dukerocco]

I have to agree that in all the novels a chaplain has some part in the story, and it makes sence that even though grey knights are so pure they would still need council. Yet like it says in the story with duke venilator the chaplains are so few even for the grey knights that i dont see them ever being in a battle.