How would you tweak the codex

[spu00sed]

I know we haven’t had the codex for long, but are there any tweaks that anyone would make. I am not talking about radical changes that come with new editions, just small things that would be cool and you feel might be in character or make more sense.

 

For example my ideas:

 

Nemesis force sword

Inv capped at 3++

 

Nemesis warding staff

3++ in combat and if the bearer suffers a perils then it is ignored on a 3+

 

Pallies

One pallie may take a Narthecium for ???pts

One pallie with a nemesis force sword may take a brother hood banner for ???pts

 

Terminators

One Terminator with a nemesis force sword may take a brother hood banner for ???pts

 

Brotherhood captain

May replace terminator armour with artificer armour for ???pts

If wearing artificer armour may take a personnel teleporter for ???pts

 

HQ

One brotherhood captain or champion may take a brotherhood banner for ???pts

 

Grey Knights

Any Grey knight may replace his storm bolter with a storm shield for ???pts

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

I know we haven’t had the codex for long, but are there any tweaks that anyone would make. I am not talking about radical changes that come with new editions, just small things that would be cool and you feel might be in character or make more sense.

 

For example my ideas:

 

Nemesis force sword

Inv capped at 3++

 

Nemesis warding staff

3++ in combat and if the bearer suffers a perils then it is ignored on a 3+

 

Pallies

One pallie may take a Narthecium

One pallie with a nemesis force sword may take a brother hood banner

 

Terminators

One Terminator with a nemesis force sword may take a brother hood banner

 

Brotherhood captain

May replace terminator armour with artificer armour

If wearing artificer armour may take a personnel teleporter

 

HQ

One brotherhood captain or champion may take a brotherhood banner

 

Grey Knights

Any Grey knight may replace his storm bolter with a storm shield

 

Most of those points seem fair, except for the last one. A storm shield alone usually runs 15-20 points. People may whine a bit about too much bang for the buck already, but that would be the last straw. Unless it's like... 10 points^^

 

I'd like a artificer captain as well.

[jeffersonian000]

It would nice if daemons were defined, rather than just assumed.

 

SJ

[spu00sed]

Grey Knights

Any Grey knight may replace his storm bolter with a storm shield

 

Most of those points seem fair, except for the last one. A storm shield alone usually runs 15-20 points. People may whine a bit about too much bang for the buck already, but that would be the last straw. Unless it's like... 10 points^^

 

I'd like a artificer captain as well.

 

All these tweaks are subject to points possible being paid for them, will edit first post

[himkano]

I would like to be able to take 2 generic inquisitors for 1 HQ slot.

 

Maybe move brother captain down to elite choice and/or or be able to give him a teleport pack.

 

I would like to be able to replace libby's terminator armor with artificer armor (because I want to be able to put in in a rhino with my purifiers)

[Walter Payton]

I would change the Kaldor Draigon fluff so that it isn't completely moronic.

 

I would change the Kaldor Draigon fluff so that it isn't completely moronic.

[BrotherWasted]

Make Psilencers rending.

 

Allow squads to purchase another ammo type that increases AP of their weapons by 1. It would have to be in the order of like 40,50, maybe even 60 points to balance against the firepower they already have.

 

Grey Knights in Termie armor have base 4++ to reflect the superior craftsmanship.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Nemesis force sword

Inv capped at 3++

 

Would be broken as hell on our regular squads, so no. As it is now, it's a pointless choice on anyone except Librarians (who need the extra protection in combat, I even give mine a pimp cane in larger games because he gets picked out so often) and Grandmasters (who are sexy with an I7 halberd, but a 3++ is also hard to pass up, especially when the latter is free).

 

Nemesis warding staff

3++ in combat and if the bearer suffers a perils then it is ignored on a 3+

 

Pimp cane already works fine in its intended role (keeping squishy Apothecaries/Librarians from dying to powerfists). That second part will have Eldar players up in arms though, so no. We just have to live with having better psychic powers than them, but suffering 'Perils' as badly as normal Marine Librarians. Oh well...

 

Pallies

One pallie may take a Narthecium for ???pts

One pallie with a nemesis force sword may take a brother hood banner for ???pts

 

Terminators

One Terminator with a nemesis force sword may take a brother hood banner for ???pts

 

I think the Apothecary is stupidly overpriced (130pts for a mediocre character who generates FNP only for his squad? I think somebody got slapped around the ears after Sanguinary Priests proved so OP, so they had to tone down our version considerably). Brotherhood Banners are appropriately costed though (pointless on smaller squads, amazing on larger squads).

 

Brotherhood captain

May replace terminator armour with artificer armour for ???pts

If wearing artificer armour may take a personnel teleporter for ???pts

 

I think this option would've been interesting, as it would make Interceptor squads more worthwhile (I cannot understand why they weren't left as Troops, they're priced far higher than comparable jump infantry MeQ's) to have a speedy character joining them.

 

HQ

One brotherhood captain or champion may take a brotherhood banner for ???pts

 

Silly, we already have Banners in the squads, two is just overkill.

 

Grey Knights

Any Grey knight may replace his storm bolter with a storm shield for ???pts

 

Haha no. I miss not having the stormhammer option on our Terminators, but if the hammer was a nemesis type then it would be broken beyond belief (same flavour as regular Stormhammer rock, but with either S10 or force weapon ability from psychic powers). On regular Knights, it would stupidly OP.

 

It would nice if daemons were defined, rather than just assumed.

 

Not happening. GW is moving away from 'you need this army book to reference this army book' rulesets. Their new design philosophy is 'everything you need to know about an army is contained in the main rulebook and one codex'. I welcome it, it streamlines things considerably, and if we're all honest the number of the people who used the 'Daemonic Adversaries' extra rules in the back of our old book can be counted on one hand. Daemons do their thing, we do ours.

 

I would like to be able to take 2 generic inquisitors for 1 HQ slot.

 

This a thousand times. As it stands now, a Librarian is a superior choice every day of the week, because it's always the opportunity cost of one character vs one character. I would've preferred Inquisitors in Elite anyway, would've made more sense.

 

I would like to be able to replace libby's terminator armor with artificer armor (because I want to be able to put in in a rhino with my purifiers)

 

Unlikely, they had the opportunity to give you the flexibility, but their answer is 'buy a Terminator/Paladin squad for meatshield lol'. Anyway, he can't fit in Rhinos, you want all 10 dudemanz for the delicious quad psycannon loadout. You can always run him (hilariously) behind their Rhino anyway, then join them in the Movement phase when they disembark.

 

I would change the Kaldor Draigon fluff so that it isn't completely moronic.

 

Haters gonna hate

 

Make Psilencers rending.

 

Sorry, you mean, take psycannons instead? Yeah, you're completely right.

 

Allow squads to purchase another ammo type that increases AP of their weapons by 1. It would have to be in the order of like 40,50, maybe even 60 points to balance against the firepower they already have.

 

Then ask yourself this, how often do you see Sternguard use Vengeance rounds, or Thousand Son squads being used in CSM armies? (btw, what you should actually say is 'lower AP' as technically what you mean with your current statement is 'make my gun worse'). Answer is never. The reason being is that an AP4 bolt round is pretty much the same as an AP5 bolt round. Occasionally, it might matter if you catch a 4+ armour unit out in the open, but if they're that dumb then they deserve to die. I already consider psybolt ammo to be worthless, and it at least has the disctinction of causing slightly more wounds (although not enough to justify the price tag. Srsly, it's the price of two psycannons on a Strike/Purifier squad, or the price of the squad psycannon for Terminators/Paladins). Nobody will pay 40 points for AP4 bolt rounds.

 

Grey Knights in Termie armor have base 4++ to reflect my inability to use 'Shrouding' or take halberds.

 

Fixed that for ya :) . Just accept they require more finesse than the Ultramarine Stormhammer rock, and they will work for you regardless. 'Shrouding' helps at range to mitigate your lack of broken wargear, and in close-combat you can hack up most things first due to I6 halberds (for free as well).

[Morollan]

I love how 'tweak' seems to automatically mean 'buff'. The codex is fine as it is and most of the proposed changes would tip it over the edge.

[Hellios]

It would nice if daemons were defined, rather than just assumed.

 

SJ

 

They are defined in the codices they come in... otherwise you get what happen ed with the last GK dex where half the things it defined as daemon no longer existed under that title... and so didn't count... Codex daemons... have the daemon rule... guess what daemons... The Avatar of Khaine has rules which states it is a daemon... Really the only problem is Chaos Space Marines... but I'm sure we all know what is a daemon really...

 

 

Personally what would I change? Warrior acolytes... Ideally WS4 would be nice but either way the equipment upgrades cost tooooooooooo much... With the stats and special rules (or lack of... which is totally fine but to compare them with sisters of battle or Space Marines and even guard vets/Storm troopers) they have a guy in PA with a bolter shouldn't cost 15pts... Try 9...

[Ragnar_Blackmane]

Brotherhood Champion: Get rid of the whole "the perfect warrior"-rule (2 A base instead), add +1W, raise the PT-cost up to 120 or 130. Profit (and one less crappy HQ choice).

[imperious]

I don't understand why people have trouble with the csm book and daemons. Just because they don't have a rule specifically labeling it as such doesn't mean a daemon prince isn't a daemon. It's like saying Tycho doesn't get preferred enemy against nobs because they don't have the "ork" special rule.

 

On topic, I think giving the brotherhood captain the option to take a personal teleporter and artificer armor would be great. It would give people a reason to take the captain over the grandmaster. Also, I think they could've implemented henchman squads better. They feel kind if tacked on. Other than those rather minor things, I think this is a great codex. Very well done.

[Hellios]

I don't understand why people have trouble with the csm book and daemons. Just because they don't have a rule specifically labeling it as such doesn't mean a daemon prince isn't a daemon. It's like saying Tycho doesn't get preferred enemy against nobs because they don't have the "ork" special rule.

 

Because some people are -][-THIS WORD HAS BEEN PUT INTO STASIS AND LOCKED IN A VAULT BY THE HOLY INQUISITION!-][-!

[Justcar]

I would:

 

1. Give terminators the "shrouding" psychic power

2. Make the "Holocaust" psychic power a variable force ability: Other paladins can forgo shooting to increase the S by 1 and decrease the AP by 1 (or some such thing)

3. Allow dreadnoughts to purchase cult powers: cleansing flame, warp quake, astral aim (I think it is ridiculous that they just forget their psy-powers).

[Brother Dylan]

I would like to see interceptor squads moved back into being an upgrade to strike squads to be honest, would have been interesting seeing them as troops. Also weapon profile changes to the dreadknight to make shooting with it more viable, and more options for psyker inquisitors than just communion and hammerhand.

[BrotherWasted]

Sorry, you mean, take psycannons instead? Yeah, you're completely right.

 

Just trying to give a turd a bit of shine, here.

 

Then ask yourself this, how often do you see Sternguard use Vengeance rounds, or Thousand Son squads being used in CSM armies? (btw, what you should actually say is 'lower AP' as technically what you mean with your current statement is 'make my gun worse'). Answer is never. The reason being is that an AP4 bolt round is pretty much the same as an AP5 bolt round. Occasionally, it might matter if you catch a 4+ armour unit out in the open, but if they're that dumb then they deserve to die. I already consider psybolt ammo to be worthless, and it at least has the disctinction of causing slightly more wounds (although not enough to justify the price tag. Srsly, it's the price of two psycannons on a Strike/Purifier squad, or the price of the squad psycannon for Terminators/Paladins). Nobody will pay 40 points for AP4 bolt rounds.

 

Good for you. You're one of the few who likes to run around the battlefield with weaker weapons then. AP4 weapons are pointless, but I BET you wouldn't be complaining when I tell you that Psycannons and Autocannons would benefit from that upgrade. And, no. To "increase armour penetration", means to increase the system's ability to ignore armor, I.E. lower the AP value. My bad for not spelling out "armour penetration".

 

If you're going to keep assuming the intent of what people post, get the :P out.

 

Fixed that for ya ;) . Just accept they require more finesse than the Ultramarine Stormhammer rock, and they will work for you regardless. 'Shrouding' helps at range to mitigate your lack of broken wargear, and in close-combat you can hack up most things first due to I6 halberds (for free as well).

 

I'm sorry, did I forget to mention that I know GKT and Paladins are already good at what they do and I'm trying to unashamedly make them even stronger? With the aim of, y'know making Termies an actual trademark core of our army? Shrouding is awesome, no :P. You know what's great when you don't have access to it? A 4++ instead of a 5++.

 

People have forgotten that they are playing with Grey Knights. Superior to normal marines. Grey Knight Terminators, of all units, should not have a base 5++ save, even when Shrouding is around.

[jeffersonian000]

My point about defining what a daemon is doesn't require a list, but should have at least a set of guidelines since "daemon" is not a race. I would have written our Preferred Enemy (Daemon) rule as follows: "Grey Knights are implaceble foes of all things daemonic, their doctrines and weapons honed to the slaughter of Warpspawn. To represent this, many Grey Knights units have the Preferred Enemy (Daemon) special rule, which can be used against any daemon, daemon possessed, or warp spawned beast."

 

This would at the least include everything that is counted as a daemon across all current and future codexes.

 

SJ

[Valerian]

I initiated a thread very similar to this soon after the codex was released. I've got quite a few "little tweaks" that I would have implemented for rules as well as fluff. That's probably why I am working toward a revamp of my old Fandex to version 3.0; I would probably have that ready for review already if not for the fact that I'll be moving soon, and haven't had the extra time.

 

Regards,

 

Valerian

[skarn]

I would have liked:

 

Deathwatch squads as elites (with sgt upgradable to deathwatch libby or brother captain). Xeno Inq unlocks as troops.

 

All Inq let you take IST as troops (with chimeras and valkyries as dedicated transports for them).

 

Strikers can have teleporters as per the playtest book.

 

Paladins have eternal warrior or stormshield option.

 

Deathwatch dreadknight variant.

 

Inquisitors can take storm shields, warding staves and annointed weapons. Warding staff works against perils.

 

Daemonhosts become Greater Daemon powerful, but Inq must take Ld test for each DH at the beginning of each turn: if failed, the daemonhost is under opponents control for the rest of the game. If taken, no GK units can be taken.

[worloch]

My Tweaks:

 

- Nemesis Force Swords

Remove the CC restriction for the improved Invulnerable Save

 

- Nemesis Warding Stave

Change to increases existing Invulnerable Save by -2 (same mechanic as Force Sword), remove CC restriction

 

- Nemesis Falchions

Clarified to give +2 attacks total

 

- Psylancer

Change St4 to X; Poisoned (4+)

 

- Brotherhood Champion

+1 W, move to Elites slot

 

- Inquisitors

Add wargear option for 4++ save

If you make your Inq psychic, Force Weapon replacement is optional

 

- Henchmen

Remove Jokero Monkeymen

Change Mindlock on Servitors to be negated by Inq OR Techmarine

 

- Orbital Strike Relay

Clarified to scatter even if a 'hit' is rolled, but scatter distance is reduced by BS as normal and Servo-skulls work as normal on it

 

- Dreadnoughts

Add Librarian Dreadnought Option to HQ choices

Add Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon and Heavy Psilencer to weapons loadout options

 

- Dreadknight

Remove Ranged Weapons options

Add Storm Shield option

 

- Assassins

Callidus Assassin able to charge after Polymorphine deployment

 

- Psychic Powers

Clarify Summoning such to work with Teleport Homers

 

 

 

Beyond the multitude of questions that need addressing in the FAQ, that is my take on it.

[Deamon Wolf]

Id get Matt Ward to give the money back to games work shop for the Peice of **** Codex he gave them and us. im having such a hard time trying to find any thing in this book that i Like and want to feild he has ruined the most interesting army in the game.

 

why do all other Chapters get storm sheilds and the most techy chapter say sorry no we dont want this amazing device that can protect us from a greater deamons attacks giving us a better chance to kill it our much worse defence will do us just fine thank you very much????

 

and why do the Terminators only have hammer hand and not Warp quake as well every other unit has 3 powers ( including activating their weapons)

 

the Inquisitors and Assasins i think are pretty much perfect but they are not something i would want tobuild an army around

[Hackbar]

Just off the top of my head

 

Wargear:

Warding Staff changes to provide 4+ save vs Perils (not subject to re-rolling successful saves) and/or nullify enemy psychic powers within 12" on 4+

Justicar only for squads, Paladins and HQs can take one for every model but pay more.

To clarify, this completely replaces the current 2+ invul in close combat rule

 

Falchions clearly stated to provide +2A total or else Falchions are +1A and re-roll wounds.

 

Psilencer changes to 24" S6 AP3 Assault 2 with 24" S8 AP1 Heavy 1 Lance alternate firing mode, price increase to match Psycannon

 

Orbital Strike Relay: all firing modes are ordinance barrage

 

Brotherhood Banner: does not replace NFW (nobody else's banners do!) cost increase 5 pts

 

Storm Shield: Available to all squads, in the limited selection section together with psycannons, etc. @ 15 pts power armor, ~10 pts TDA, replacing storm bolter. Yes, it stacks with NFS. This means Paladins can have 2 per 5 men... if you're willing to give up psycannons.

30+ points for HQ characters and Techmarines

 

more as they come to mind....

[Freman Bloodglaive]

So after having them all but unkillable in combat, you want to make them all but unkillable at range as well.

 

Fine.

 

Just double the points cost of every unit.

[Wildfire]

I'd put the inquisition back in as a major component.

[Hackbar]

So after having them all but unkillable in combat, you want to make them all but unkillable at range as well.

 

Fine.

 

Just double the points cost of every unit.

 

I don't quite get what you're saying here. If anything, the changes I proposed would strengthen GK melee at the cost of their ranged firepower. Storm shields would only come into play in melee (where they replace the staff, for which I proposed a more fitting benefit) or when we can't benefit from The Shrouding. 2 storm shields in a 10 man unit with no psycannons is not really all that terrifying, is it?

 

The only ranged buffs I even suggested are buffs to try and bring some sense and usefulness to weapons that are currently overpriced and just plain silly.