Custodian Athiair Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hey guys, i was thinking. Well after reading the thread briefly in Amicus Ades about what would happen if the Legions were still legion sized. Basically it got me thinking are the mighty wolves of russ, still the Emperors Executioners? as in if the emperor was alive and needed to have a chapter eradicated - would he send in the wolves to wipe them out? take out the question of if the Emperor was alive then the legions would still be legions. just say that they are chapter sized (or their current size in the 41st Millennium) so what do you guys think? are they still the last resort? Athiair :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadLift Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Hey guys, i was thinking. Well after reading the thread briefly in Amicus Ades about what would happen if the Legions were still legion sized.Basically it got me thinking are the mighty wolves of russ, still the Emperors Executioners? as in if the emperor was alive and needed to have a chapter eradicated - would he send in the wolves to wipe them out? take out the question of if the Emperor was alive then the legions would still be legions. just say that they are chapter sized (or their current size in the 41st Millennium) so what do you guys think? are they still the last resort? Athiair :) I think if that were they case, the said chapter would have gone over to chaos maybe and for that it would be Chapter 666 the Grey Knights. As much as we all love our chosen chapter I think fluff wise these bad boys would be the ones sent to do the beheading. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2770978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassill Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 Let me be the first wolf to say, our axes are still sharp, and we are up for the task! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2770986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 I think we are whatever we need to be. But the old " go there and kill everything" does not apply. Especially if that direction is by the lords of terra. Taking the order from the emp. Was entirely different. We now choose battles versus being forced into them. "battle of the fang" sheds light on this. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levitas Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 It's a good question. Every proud wolf would say yes. You cant ignore the role of the grey knights, but while they are pure the Inquisition that dictates their actions are maybe not so pure. Would the Grey Knights exist if the emperor was mobile and kicking? Either way, the Sons of Russ will give their foe a good kicking and have higher moral fiber than some chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothbrok Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 i think if needs be we would and in that case than the chapter in question wouldnt just be broken it would be obliterated after all the wolves dont go for half victories. but i dont think we are really the final sanction anymore mostly becuase the imperium has become sort of decentralized and the only people who can call for the destruction of a chapter are the high lords and the inqusition (neither of whom we like). on a slightly related note in the book blood gorgans it mentions that when they turned traitor it was the wolves who hunted them and chased them out of imperial space. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 You cant ignore the role of the grey knights, but while they are pure the Inquisition that dictates their actions are maybe not so pure Just wanted to jump in.. the Inquisition doesn't have any say in what the Grey Knights do. It is just very often that their goals (destroying chaos) happen to coincide when they meet on the battlefield and brief alliances are formed. The Inquisition, moreso than any other Imperial army, are just the ones that interact most with Grey Knights, and have made enough "brief alliances" to warrant their inclusion in the Grey Knights codex. The Grey Knights have their own planet, own governing council, and above all else try to maintain their Chapter hidden from the Imperium where possible. Their orders come from the Grand Masters who are generally informed by the Prognosticars as to where they should find daemonic incursions. Carry on. Oh, and Grey Knight duties aside, Wolves make for better predators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadLift Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 "Nobody expects the Spanish inquisition" dun dun dah Sorry couldn't resist a monty python joke with all this inquisition talk. Maybe if the Emperor was still upright then maybe the Custodes would be considered ? Having read all the heresy books they certainly seem up to the task and were sent on missions to "over see" Legions activitys. However if the Emperor were still in power it would also stand to reason some if not all the primarchs would still be kicking too. I don't think many standard space marine would be to the task of taking down a primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Micky Posted May 25, 2011 Share Posted May 25, 2011 wait till u got 20 khorn beserkers in close combat.. againts 10 grey hunters.. fury of the wolfs in cc... don't make me laught.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothbrok Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 wait till u got 20 khorn beserkers in close combat.. againts 10 grey hunters.. fury of the wolfs in cc... don't make me laught.. i've won that fight ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 I would say no, we're not the executioners we once were. now the role of the astartes has changed, and we changed with it. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Furthering my comments... I think we know how dangerous we are and don't trust anyone but our selves to send us off in the "Executioner" role. That said, I think if you are in the SWls way, they will be that vicious, uncompromising, bloody axe wielding killer from ages past removing every piece of threat that we uncover. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 well first off we should then consider how the horus heresy should have ended. In what condition was the emperor? did he nuke horus brain immediatly or was he wounded seriously. would he need to be placed on the golden throne anyway to ward of the deamonic legion waiting at the warpgate inside the palace etc. was the inquisition ever founded? how about the high lords of terra etc? a lot of these questions might influence a lot of things since if the Emperor hadn't been entombed like this maybe leman russ wouldn't have gone off into the warp etc. with russ himself at our command, and his character changed by the heresy, much more grim and dark then it was before i'm pretty sure we could still be called executioners. not necesarrily of our fellow loyalist brothers but more like the ever crusader black templars Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 thats a good point about the Grey Knights - i suppose now they would be. although it seems a shame considering it's what the wolves were made for. but to DreadLift - i don't think the Custodes would be used - they weren't used in the heresy. so i doubt they would be now if the Emp was still walking and talking. Ok they supported the wolves in the assault of Prospero, but so did the sisters of silence. both of them were more back-up/specialised troops needed for the specific assault on the psychic planet. oh and Levitas - just a heads up the Grey Knight would have existed if the Emperor wasn't around (maybe they wouldn't be so "cruel") because they might of had a slight leash but still. The reason they would of existed was because the Emperor told Malcador to go and find people to start the chapter. so yes i think it would havee existed. anyway i'm loving the discussion and i'll be returning with more thinks i have to leave now - but i'll be back Athiair :angry: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771420 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 All chapters, atleast the loyal ones, head the call to police their own. The Baddab War was exactly that for example. But, unless the evidence was damning, the protocal seems to be 'bring them in for a trial' not 'wipe their geneseed from the stars'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custodian Athiair Posted May 26, 2011 Author Share Posted May 26, 2011 fair point Grey Mage. but after the trial? admittedly the idea behind Prospero (at least what i thought) was to bring Magnus back to Terra so he could explain why he did what he did to the Emperor - and that didn't happen it instead turned into an extermination. but i do think a trial would be taken before any action - considering how ridiculously burucratic the Imperium is. the traitors would probably get away before the Imperium did a thing which is a pain. but anyway :tu: not the point really :) Athiair :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
old git Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 As Kieran said, the wolves have had to change. 10 000 years of history have shaped the imperium out of all recognition to what the Big E intended. The wolves don't take well to external authority so anybody other than the Emperor telling them what to do wouldn't go well. As far as being executioners is concerned there are other organisations at hand that are more suited depending on the reason for chastisement. If its a religous thing the Sisters would be called on (there are rumblings that the sisters will be more ecclsiarchy focussed, rather than inquisition, if and when a new codex comes along). If some kind of fall to chaos then it would be the knights doing the job. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771500 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 The Minotaurs, in Badab War book 2, seem rather like "The High Lords' executioners"- with Preferred Enemy: Space Marines, and so on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 The Minotaurs, in Badab War book 2, seem rather like "The High Lords' executioners"- with Preferred Enemy: Space Marines, and so on. Yes the Executioner's and the Charcharodons. Especially the Charcharodons. Also the actual "Executioner" chapter could be thought of in this role. They were on the rebel side during Badab but are on a penitent crusade. They go toe to toe with the Charcharodons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 You cant ignore the role of the grey knights, but while they are pure the Inquisition that dictates their actions are maybe not so pure Just wanted to jump in.. the Inquisition doesn't have any say in what the Grey Knights do. It is just very often that their goals (destroying chaos) happen to coincide when they meet on the battlefield and brief alliances are formed. The Inquisition, moreso than any other Imperial army, are just the ones that interact most with Grey Knights, and have made enough "brief alliances" to warrant their inclusion in the Grey Knights codex. The Grey Knights have their own planet, own governing council, and above all else try to maintain their Chapter hidden from the Imperium where possible. Their orders come from the Grand Masters who are generally informed by the Prognosticars as to where they should find daemonic incursions. Carry on. Oh, and Grey Knight duties aside, Wolves make for better predators. Wulfe, Sorry, but this is absolutely incorrect. You cannot say that the Inquisition has no say in what the Grey Knights do, when the Grey Knights are in the Inquisition. Grey Knights are the only Space Marines that are not a part of the Adeptus Astartes. They are one of the many Chambers of the Ordo Malleus; specifically they are the Chamber Militant of the Ordo, which basically means that they are the fighting arm of one specific branch/order within the broader organization known as the Inquisition. In fact, the Chapter Master (known as the Supreme Grand Master) sits on the Inner Circle of the Ordo. Although it is true that they can largely determine for themselves how best to serve in their capacity as militant arm, they are as much a part of the Inquisition as any Inquisitor in any other Chamber or Ordo. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2771957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 In the 5E main rulebook: p121 The Grey Knights: The Grey Knights are a Space Marine Chapter like no other, and the Imperium's foremost defence against the daemonic threat. Working in close co-operation with the Ordo Malleus, the militant arm of the Inquisition, the Grey Knights can be found wherever the daemonic forces of Chaos wax strong, combating unimaginable horrors with resolute faith, unshakeable determination, and the finest weapons the Imperium can produce. So they aren't actually in the Ordo Malleus per se- they work in co-operation with it. In Codex: Grey Knights, the Grey Knights are referred to as "the Inquisition's chamber militant" (p44) rather than the Ordo Malleus specifically. p44: As the Inquisition's chamber militant, much of the Grey Knights' work lies in the support of individual Inquisitors. Should an Inquisitor ancounter a threat beyond his own means, daemonic or otherwise, the Grey Knights are his first recourse. Conversely there are times when a Grey Knight strike force comes up against a threat that requires a more intricate form of investigation than can be provided by brute force, and thus request the presence of an Inquisitor. It also says that "the largest and most powerful branch is the Ordo Malleus, the segment of the organisation dedicated to the banishment of daemons, and therefore the one that works most closely with the Grey Knights." They "work closely with the Inquisition" but they are still a chapter on the Chapter roster- Chapter 666. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2772002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
slmellon Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Was the call for us executing the Thousand Sons made by the Traitor Horus? Had the Emperor spoken directly to Russ the Thousand Sons would be the "Grey Knights" of today, or something similar. Had Horus not intervened Prospero would not have burned, Magnus would not have fallen to Chaos, The Emperor would probably still be alive and there wouldnt be Chaos Marines left. My two Cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2772050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted May 26, 2011 Share Posted May 26, 2011 Badab war seems to suggest that chapters considered highly loyal and consistent are the ones sent to deal with other errant chapters. I think the space wolves habit of ignoring orders means the high lords tend not to use them for this any more. I'm not sure horuses actions seem to have had the biggest effect(horus actions seem to been reduced in the HH books in effect from the older edition which seemed to suggest russ was too pissed to give magnus a chance). He helped push russ towards destroying magnus a little. But Russ still gave magnus a chance to surrender, Magnus just choose not to take it and accept honourable destruction but then changed his mind as he saw his world and legion destroyed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2772076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 @Iron Lord, I can provide quotes, too, but it'll have to wait until some time when I'm not on my phone. V Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2772610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 @Iron Lord, I can provide quotes, too, but it'll have to wait until some time when I'm not on my phone. V And Im willing to bet alot of them are- for good or ill- from the new codex and the last codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230596-are-the-wolves-still-the-executioners/#findComment-2772616 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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