Codex Astartes: Favoured Approach

[MagicMan]

I use Koremu's plan, but use a Libby with GoI instead of deepstriking them.

 

It means they can prowl around my backfield for a while shooting things with their cyclone, and they'll be where you want them, when you want them.

 

As long as they don't die beforehand.

[War Angel]

with the list i used last time, i had a drop pod with my scoring unit that some raptors came and wiped off the table. just so happened that i rolled for my regular termies to come on next round and landed them within spitting distance of the pod.

 

took those raptors out with volume of fire

[Something Wycked]

I'm a very reactionary player so quite literally everything in my list has the potential to be a counter-attack element for me. My favorites:

 

Vindicator. Nothing says "Damn kids, get off my lawn!" more effectively than a Vindicator's pie plate to the middle of an attacking force.

 

Sternguard, especially via Drop Pod. For similar reasons to the Terminators arriving via Deep Strike above. A favorite moment of mine is a Drop Pod of Sternguard arriving second turn right next to a unit of Eldar Rangers/Pathfinders and making them instantaneously vanish from the board. The look on the Eldar player's face was priceless. ("Yes, I'm ignoring your armor save... and your cover save!")

 

Failing the above, an Assault Squad with twin Lightning Claws on the Sergeant.

 

Cassius + Tacticals in a Razorback can perform decently in a pinch.

[Mysticaria]

Is this the time to chime in and say that I like 10x tactical terminators with 2x cylone launchers and 2x chainfists? Yeah, they are my long range firepower and my counter attack unit all wrapped into one.

 

-Myst

 

Vindicator. Nothing says "Damn kids, get off my lawn!" more effectively than a Vindicator's pie plate to the middle of an attacking force.

 

And yeah... I like them paired with vindicators too. I'm going to have to use that "Damn kids, get off my lawn!" quote next time I fire the big guns.

 

-Myst

[maturin]

For assault/counterassault, I'm still using my Sternguard and Vanguard combo, and liking them a lot.

 

7-8 Sternguard (and attached libby with GoI) gate around the battlefield, shooting up whatever seems best. They've got 2 combi-plasmas, 2 combi-meltas, and a heavy flamer. Their damage output is enough to make them a high priority target for my opponent in any situation.

 

My 6 Vanguard Vets are there to bail the Sternguard out when the heat gets too high. They ride in a rhino (with dozer blade) to provide protection, mobility, and cover. They're loaded out as a pseudo-"thade" pattern, with RB/SS sarge, PW, and SS. Half the squad is for ablative wounds, but with the storm shields they have a moderate amount of survivability. Combined with sternguard fire, they've done well even against dedicated CC units.

 

I also have a 5-man unit of CC scouts with PF sarge in LSS, and a 5-man scout bike unit with PF sarge. While neither are great at CC, they have the mobility to assist the vets quickly from wherever they are on the board, and add a decent number of attacks.

[Koremu]

My 6 Vanguard Vets are there to bail the Sternguard out when the heat gets too high. They ride in a rhino (with dozer blade) to provide protection, mobility, and cover. They're loaded out as a pseudo-"thade" pattern, with RB/SS sarge, PW, and SS. Half the squad is for ablative wounds, but with the storm shields they have a moderate amount of survivability. Combined with sternguard fire, they've done well even against dedicated CC units.

A what pattern?

 

Thade, young padawan, come hither, I need a word with you sunshine...

[maturin]

Whoops, did I step on toes? No offense, Koremu - I just got the idea from the most recent post on Vanguard Vets, last year I think.....and thade was saying how he used them......n stuff. <_<

[Koremu]

I'm mostly joking, and Thade will know it: I came up with the principles of that config and convinced him to use it XD

[Gearhead]

It would seem as though I am late....

 

Quick Catchup.

 

Holdin' Objectives: Tacticals. Powerfist, Flamer, Missile Launcher for squads expecting trouble (typically the ones I expect to be taking rather than holding), and a double dose of plasma for those squads I expect to mosey over to the closest objective a squat there the rest of the match. The plasma squad did a wonderful area denial job against a Grey Knights player, and the other squads chewed through his smaller squad through forced wounds and powerfists. Both types of squad have rhinos, the assault heavy ones tend to have extra armor to keep moving and protect the assault squad behind them.

 

HQ: Depends on points. General purpose for low points is a libby, typically Gate and Avenger dragging sternguard around after the razorback goes. If there's an assault squad, there's usually a chaplain instead. The Captain (RB, AA, SS) comes out late points, and Kantor arrives in 2000 points. Kantor is a Godsend to my Mechanized Fists. I don't even have Sternguard at that level to take advantage of Hold The Line!. 30 tactical marines, 10 assault marines, 10 Devastators, five assault terminators, all with bonus attacks, and then vehicles. Pedro rides in the middle in a crusader with the Terminators in tow, extending the bubble and sending out the termies should any real trouble show up. Also Stubborn; stubborn lets me loose combat for two rounds, not care, then win when the enemy's dead. Or, failing that, instantly turn any squad into a tarpit.

 

Counterattack: Typically the Assault Terminators, but the Assault Marines work well here too. With a pair of flamers they're actually better at shooting than they are at assault (normally; I don't know the math on a charge with Pedro close by), so that's kind of a counterattack shooting unit. I use Sternguard and a libby at lower points, and they excel at this. Vangence rounds and The Avenger make a mess of things. Really, just as much revenge as I can cram into a razorback.

[DarkGuard]

There's been some really good stuff here, thanks guys. Good to see this thread starting to pick up steam. I have noticed that pretty much all the posts are C:SM. Despite the title this is for all armies, so if you're a Grey Knights player feel free to tell us what we're missing!

 

Anyway, onto the next one. I was going to do fast melta, but reasoned that that's a bit boring, so here's firebases A lot of diverse selections on counter-attack units should hopefully reflect on firebase units as well.

 

So, what long-range units do you use to lay out a lot of firepower across the board? Let us know what targets they attack, be they infantry, mech, or both.

 

So, I tend to have a solid firebase of two Typhoons (squadroned) and two Rifleman Dreads. So, as you can see, mainly my firebase is for anti-tank. The Rifleman Dreads are durable, effective in terrain, and can deal out a large amount of mid strength, long-range shots, perfect for anti-transport. The Typhoons instead are less accurate but more powerful when dealing with tanks, and can get side armour. They are also an invaluable source of anti-infantry firepower, with 4 frag missiles and 2 heavy bolters being fantastic at taking out hordes and even MEQ.

 

I'm also going to cheat here and say I regularly use a Vindicator. While not long-range firebase, it's range can still cover a nice, big area, and it has a powerful gun. Once the enemy reaches midfield it doesn't matter if the Vindicator is in my backfield and only 24" range.

 

So what firebase units do you use?

[maturin]

I don't usually take too much of a firebase, since I find the up-close-and-personal playstyle much more entertaining. It happens to fit Salamander fluff as well, but that's just a bonus.

 

What I do take on occasion is a combi-pred to pop transports, and/or a 5-man sniper/ML scout squad (with or without Telion). Throw in a LC or ML from a combat squad/tac squad, and I'm all set to go. The rest of my stuff usually has 24" range or less, and the army build reflects that.

 

The long range firepower I do have is usually dedicated to cracking enemy transports so I can hit the units inside with close-range firepower and/or assault.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

My static firebase units are a full ten-man Scout sniper squad with missile launcher and camo cloaks (useful for downing MCs, plinking & pinning Dev/Long Fang-type units, and popping the occassional Raider or Vyper as well as holding an objectives), a Rifleman dreadnought (for disembarking APC-borne squads), and/or a Thunderfire cannon (I use it rarely, but give it one good shooting phase and it can wipe out a Marine squad through weight of fire alone).

[Something Wycked]

Oh, let me cover some missed ground then :D

 

:lol: Strike Squads... And Interceptors made scoring via Grand Masters. While Strike Squads are expensive when compared to things like Tactical Marines, the ability to Deep Strike a Troops unit in Power Armor wielding Assault 2 Bolters, Psycannons and force weapons is not to be underestimated. The amount of firepower the Strike Squad can unleash, especially while stationary, should never be underestimated. The fact that they can do the mechanized game just as well as other armies is icing on the cake.

 

The Interceptors, when made scoring via Grand Strategy, are the premier scoring units in the codex. 12" moves every turn, the same excellent weapon options as every other Grey Knights unit, and the ability to shunt 30" to capture an objective late in the match are the tools of their trade.

 

To add onto all of that goodness, both Strikes and Interceptors can use Warp Quake, making any enemy reserves arriving from Deep Strike within 12" of them automatically mishap, giving some excellent breathing room.

 

For Grey Knights, I have a hard time choosing between the Librarian and the Grand Master... so much so that my 1750 list has one of each :D Grand Masters' Grand Strategy is one of the most useful and flexible abilities in the game. Adding Scoring, Scouts, Counter Attack, or rerolling to-wound rolls of 1 is fantastic on its own; the ability to choose which ability you want to grant at the beginning of every game is priceless. They can even be made into combat machines (including the squad they're attached to) by adding the Grey Knights' signature grenades to the mix.

 

However, the Librarian has the ability to change the game in ways we've not fully experienced until this codex. Flame templates that remove models that fail an initiative test and automatically penetrate vehicles. Granting Stealth to units in an area. Making the terrain around the Librarian and surrounding units Difficult and Dangerous to units that wish to assault the Grey Knights. +1 Strength and +1d6 armor penetration, 10 Initiative... The Grey Knights Librarian's toolbox is huge.

 

My favorite counter-attackers for Grey Knights are Interceptors and Dreadknights with a Personal Teleporter. They can both be where you need them, when you need them, and they can also be a huge threat at range or in assault. I'm aware of other people favoring Death Cult Assassins for an assault-oriented counter attack unit, and it makes good sense- there are only one or two units in the game that can stand up to a charge of 12 DCA's, and when held in the backfield in a protected Land Raider, they make for a deadly deterrent to anything getting too close.

 

Now that I'm caught up, on to the next question! :D

 

Firebases. Probably my favorite thing to use in 40k. MOAR DAKKA! Ahem...

 

For Codex: Space Marines, my firebase is a pair of Vindicators and a unit of Devastators... or a Thunderfire. Or a Master of the Forge with a Conversion Beamer. Medium to long range and heavy hitting, these guys will put the hurt on anything that needs hurting. I typically gear my Devs with Plasma Cannons for extra MEQ hurting.

 

For Blood Angels, the same Vindicators and Devastators- and these are even better than the C:SM versions. Cheaper Devastators and Fast Vindicators, for an effective 36" range Demolisher Cannon pie plate. (Damn kids! Get off my lawn!)

 

Maybe somewhat surprisingly, I'm not a fan of Grey Knights backfield firebases. They can do Conversion Beamers, a Vindicare, and up to six Psyfleman Dreadnoughts, but its just not enough to make me want to be a static player with Grey Knights. That said, I am a big fan of setting up midfield firebases with the bread & butter units of the Grey Knights- Strike Squads and Interceptors. Getting them to midfield puts nearly the entire board in range of their Psycannons and Strength 5 Stormbolters, and makes Warp Quake have a large amount of board coverage as well. Psycannons work on everything, and the Psybolt-loaded Stormbolters work on anything from Conscripts and mini-Tyranids to Armor 11 vehicles.

[War Angel]

i'd say about half the people where i play are bugs. so of course i use a pair of whirlwinds. even if i miss one unit i take out a score of others. i also used to combine this with a LC pred but it got taken out by a boot so i havnt used it lately. the pred was fairly important considering this one guy uses 3 canifex's named the barney crew (there purple with green bellies) so i stand by my desision.

[Project.2501]

Aside from my three aforementioned Lascannon toting Tac squads (combat squaded depending on mission/opponent), my only 'true firebase(s)' are:

 

Two Predators with Hunter-Killer Missiles. They are my anti-aircraft/skimmer/transport. Basically, anything with an AV of 11 or less is their designated target, with the highest priority on fast movers (like land speeders of all flavors for instance). With (essentially just) the autocannon, they are much more manueverable and focused for their role than a sponsonsed predator, and the HKM is additional 'muscle' for either the first round of shooting, targets that 'must die naow' or targets of opportunity later in the game. They also give my predators that much more potential against AV 12-13 should I need it (though I do NOT rely on this, it's just nice have should you find yourself in a situation where you need it). I have no reservations on moving and losing the ability to use the HKM should it put my predators in better positions to fire upon their targets. And the range of both weapons match perfectly for this use as well.

 

The added bonus to this 'new found' manueverability is that I also now have much better 'blockers' for the rest of my army's rhinos, providing rolling AV13 and tank shocks. Being able to either block LOS to the rest of my army or provide coversaves/hull-down to it as well as move out of the way to allow the rest of my army to manuever/shoot while retaining the ability to shoot on the move is key to (everyone?) my army's generalist nature.

 

I also use a 6man Sternguard squad with a Plasma Cannon (and Kantor) in a rhino as my anti-blob/heavy infantry firebase. I like the Plasma Cannon as it offers me range, a blast marker, and punch (even against AV if need be). Between The sternguards' special ammo, Kantor's Dorn's Arrow, the rhino's stormbolter and the plasma cannon, it's actually surprisingly easy to take out mobs/blobs.

[TyrionTheImp]

Dakka Preds and Rifleman Dreads are my firebases, and they give me lots of AV targets for not bad prices.

 

Riflemen de-mech, Preds clean up the innards. This is usually in addition to no less than 2 Missile Launcher combat squads. It lets my back field handle most things that move forward with the exception of land raiders and such, which is why I carry 3 deep striking MM speeders and pack melta on my forward tacticals.

[maturin]

I have to echo Project.2501's assessment of his plain old Predators. Since I had a few points to spare in my last few games I threw in a cheap, plain Predator as moving terrain and distraction target. I really was surprised at how often opponents chose to shoot it instead of something else with a greater threat value - I guess there's something about a tank that says "SHOOT ME". :P

 

And not having sponsons really freed it up to move and act as the AV13 cover I really wanted it for. A truly underappreciated unit.

[Gearhead]

I'm one of those Wierdos that uses Devastators. Four Missile Launchers, I use 'em to attack whatever. AV 14 is usually not a target unless absolutely necessary, I've got fists and melta for that. Four Missiles will tear up light infantry, do decent against most vehicles, and (best of all) instakill Tau suits.

 

I have a full Devastator squad full of Heavy Bolters, but I can't remember the last time I used them. I have a whirlwind for that kind of thing. Orks don't like that things at all, and neither to Tau when they pop out for a Fish of Fury.

 

I LOVE Land Speeder Typhoons. Love 'em to death. They're fast and shooty, and have a duel purpose in contesting objectives like Eldar Pansies. Like the Devastators, they are pretty versatile.

 

In lower points I have a shooty scout squad, which does not get to come out and play at my usual tournament points. They're pretty solidly anti-infantry, but mostly they just score.

[TyrionTheImp]

Using naked Predators doesn't give your predators any more mobility, it just reduces their overall firepower potential.

 

My dakka predators can still move and shoot their autocannon, but they can also not move and shoot 6 more S5 shots. Seriously, it's only 85 points for a Dakka Predator, and the difference in potential is massive. I don't feel bad for moving when I have to, if it benefits me I'll do it, if not, I get that much more out of my tank. Of course, I usually bring doubles or triples of Dakka Predators, so I doubt I'll have trouble getting the shots I want with at least one tank without moving it.

 

Of course, if you're in a very small point game where you want to squeeze the most out of your units, a plain 60 point predator is quite appealing. Can any non-SM codices get an AV13 tank for that cheap? Don't think so.

[Project.2501]

Using naked Predators doesn't give your predators any more mobility, it just reduces their overall firepower potential.

 

My dakka predators can still move and shoot their autocannon, but they can also not move and shoot 6 more S5 shots. Seriously, it's only 85 points for a Dakka Predator, and the difference in potential is massive. I don't feel bad for moving when I have to, if it benefits me I'll do it, if not, I get that much more out of my tank. Of course, I usually bring doubles or triples of Dakka Predators, so I doubt I'll have trouble getting the shots I want with at least one tank without moving it.

 

Of course, if you're in a very small point game where you want to squeeze the most out of your units, a plain 60 point predator is quite appealing. Can any non-SM codices get an AV13 tank for that cheap? Don't think so.

 

 

First, this is not the thread to argue/debunk/belittle/debate/dislike other people's choices, as stated by the OP in the original post, before Darkguard apparently editted it out with his last edit to his original post.

 

Second, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, 'move or shoot' or 'move and shoot', one being better than the other is in the eye of the beholder. I (and some others) prefer the latter, you (and some others) prefer the former, we're all correct.

[DarkGuard]

Using naked Predators doesn't give your predators any more mobility, it just reduces their overall firepower potential.

 

My dakka predators can still move and shoot their autocannon, but they can also not move and shoot 6 more S5 shots. Seriously, it's only 85 points for a Dakka Predator, and the difference in potential is massive. I don't feel bad for moving when I have to, if it benefits me I'll do it, if not, I get that much more out of my tank. Of course, I usually bring doubles or triples of Dakka Predators, so I doubt I'll have trouble getting the shots I want with at least one tank without moving it.

 

Of course, if you're in a very small point game where you want to squeeze the most out of your units, a plain 60 point predator is quite appealing. Can any non-SM codices get an AV13 tank for that cheap? Don't think so.

 

 

First, this is not the thread to argue/debunk/belittle/debate/dislike other people's choices, as stated by the OP in the original post, before Darkguard apparently editted it out with his last edit to his original post.

 

Second, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other, 'move or shoot' or 'move and shoot', one being better than the other is in the eye of the beholder. I (and some others) prefer the latter, you (and some others) prefer the former, we're all correct.

 

Project.2501 is correct here, I'd prefer it if we don't have a any arguments on unit choices. This thread it simply to see what people like using, what they find works, etc, and through that learning new unit types and combinations etc.

 

I'm not aware that I've edited the "no arguing" bit out of my original post, if I did I didn't mean that, I'll fix that then.

 

Some really good things here guys, in particular it's nice to see Devs get a mention. When I ran a Half Company list I used them, 1 lascannon and 3 missile launchers with a TL-LC Razorback. Combat squad with the lascannon and Sergeant in one squad, and MLs in the other. Meant I had two units with accurate LC shots, and a flexible ML squad able to take down tanks or infantry. One of my favourite squads, I only stopped using it because I roll too many Dawn of War deployments!

[Koremu]

Devastators are actually a better choice in a Blood Angel list, as you can give them FNP by stationing an Apothecary (in a counter assault unit) nearby to give them the aura.

 

Put 'em in cover & 3+/4++/FNP makes 'em hard to shift, and if things look really bad they can weigh in on the counter assault with 22 STR5 attacks...

[War Angel]

youre saying all three missle launchers in the single combat squad?

[DarkGuard]

youre saying all three missle launchers in the single combat squad?

 

That's how I used them. The idea is to have the lascannon with the signum, so it should do damage as it's high strength and always hitting, while the missile launchers do damage with amount of shots. Both squads have at least a couple of normal guys to absorb hits as well.

[thade]

I'm mostly joking, and Thade will know it: I came up with the principles of that config and convinced him to use it XD

 

I am a bit late to this party. I admit, searching for "thade-pattern" on the Tactica board was at best narcissistic...but holy crap am I flattered.

 

Koremu definitely brought me around to my current manner of vanguard loadout (no more than one upgrade per model, ablative wound vets, lit claws > power weapons...that's all from him). Kudos to Koremu. :P

 

Also, kudos to Vanguard. Keep bringing those bad boys out to party.