Codex Astartes: Favoured Approach

[thade]

Oh, and as for the topic at hand:

 

Asryndall is a Librarian in TDA with a Storm Shield, using Sword of Sang (Str 10) and whateverPowerGrantsHatred (re-roll to-hit in melee). The guy is a beast and has taken down several Dreadnoughts in hand-to-hand. (Believe me, always a stressful encounter, but he has yet to go down to a Dread.) I can also Deep Strike him to Drop Pods or Tac Squads (teleport homers) for a bit of a surprise.

 

Dornkirk (my counts-as Mephiston) is my chapter's chief-librarian and - as the oldest surviving marine in my chapter - is sort of a de facto chapter master. (My chapter's master died within the past century, and with numbers so few they've relied on a council of sorts to make decisions until they can name a successor.) His applications are well-known.

 

Captain Vito is a captain that dual-wields thunder hammers. I field him when I'm feeling saucy.

 

My command squad is my Vanguard: 2-3 vets with single lit claws, 1-2 with storm shields, usually Zemus (serg with power fist) and 2-3 vets with no upgrades.

 

More often than the vanguard these days I'll field an assault team (as they're a scoring unit); I've been doing this for some variety and point-flexibility.

 

For anti-light armor/transport-popping I use a full Devastator squad with four missile launchers; I virtually always combat squad this unit so I can have two pairs of MLs for firing on Rhinos. I also use a "rifleman-pattern" dread for this task...but only one TL-autocannon. I never leave the DCCW at home, because if I do he always gets mired in an assault.

 

Finally, my LR of choice is the Redeemer pattern. Mostly for fluff-reasons (my chapter is a Salamanders successor) but frankly I love me some marine flambé.

[DarkGuard]

OK then, some fantastic stuff so far. Good to see some diverse unit choices, especially Devs being used. Also nice to see people catching up and going through them all.

 

The next one, as I hinted in my previous post, is fast melta. But, it's no fast melta, instead I shall call it mobile melta. Basically, mech is the king of 40K, and while transports can be busted open by missiles, Land Raiders, front armour on Preds etc cannot. For these things, and even for just reliably killing tanks melta is the best bet. What I want to hear is what units you give your melta weapons to. Note, that static melta, such as MM Tactical squads will not count for this, it needs to be able to react, and therefore move and fire, hence mobile melta.

 

So guys, what units do you use to deliver your melta to where it is needed?

 

For me, I use to trust old fast melta platform, the MM/HF Speeder. Fast, being able to move 12" over people to get those shots off, in addition to it's 24" movement resulting in an ability to allow it to attack a target from across the board in two turns make them invaluable. They're durable to low strength shots and normally easy to hide, meaning they can survive as well. They can also deep strike, which I've been having fun with recently. Finally, the heavy flamer means they can handle infantry as well, which is a plus.

 

In the past, I have used the cheaper MM ABs, and when using Sternguard I give them a few combi-meltas to allow them to move and pop tanks if needed. However, my main melta units are indeed the MM/HF Speeders, I'd be lost without them.

[maturin]

My current fast melta is a 5 man scout team in a LSS. The sarge has a combi melta and the LSS has a multi-melta (GC08-pattern? :) ). It's fast, has a 24" scout move, 12" move, 2" scout debark, for a total of a 44" melta threat radius from initial deployment for the sarge. It's a 50" threat for the MM. The sarge has a PF should his melta not kill the (hopefully stationary) target.

 

Backup fast melta is my Sternguard squad with 2 combi-melta, using my libby's GoI for a 24" movement phase. It's risky, but that's what 2 homing beacons in my list are for. Still working on using this unit well as it's rather tricky to get right.

 

EDIT: stupid auto-correct :)

[Something Wycked]

Wow, maturin, I really like those ideas and those numbers. I've never put those things together that way before.

 

In my last game, I used a dual-MM speeder, and it played an instrumental role in winning me the game. It suffered a weapon destroyed result partway through, so having the redundancy of a pair of meltas saved its combat effectiveness. Its last act was to knock the close combat weapon off of a Dreadnought and protect one of my scoring squads by doing so.

 

My favorite and most-often used way to deliver melta is Sternguard by far. Thrown in a Pod, they drop where they're needed most and apply their variety of combi-weapons to whatever needs killing- in this case, their meltas.

 

I've been toying around with Grey Knights melta a bit, too. I haven't used this yet (haven't even finished fleshing out the idea) but I've been thinking of: Inquisitor in Terminator armor with Psycannon and 4 MM Servitors in a Chimera, and some extra henchmen for ablative wounds/utility. The Psycannon is as good or better than the MM's due to more shots and better ballistic skill, and shares the same range band of 24".

 

The other thought I had about it was replacing the "extra henchmen" and one of the MM's with Psykers for a S10, AP1, 36" large blast to complement the 3 remaining melta shots and the relentless Psycannon.

 

Lots of things to ponder :)

[maturin]

Thanks, Something. I wouldn't say it's ultra-reliable, but it's a lot of fun.

 

A quick note on your =I= warband - there's a maximum of 3 weapons servitors per squad. You can toss in psykers ad nauseum, though. :lol:

 

EDIT: Also, I can't claim credit for the LSS/scouts combo - a lot of that is from reading greatcrusade08's scout tactica and his posts (an excellent read, should you be interested in scout capabilities).

[Project.2501]

For mobile melta I use a Drop pod Dreadnought. I use a regular dreadnought over an Ironclad because the ironclad can only have a regular melta-gun, which kills his threat range and therefore my choices of places to deploy him (especially should he live past his drop-n-pop), and I've found that even AV13 in the midst of the enemy/behind enemy lines gets popped just the same as AV12 (like my wife seeing a spider next to her "OMG KILL IT KILL IT KILL IT NOW!!1!"). I know I could equip an ironclad with Hunter-killer missiles as well, but the pricetag just adds up too quickly for me for something that's mission in (game)life is to kamikaze/distract/interrupt.

 

Also, should either the game scenario or my opponent give me nothing worthwhile to drop pod my dread for, I can still deploy the empty pod to either negate or create movement/shooting funnels and deploy him regularly with the rest of my force, continuing to provide all the benefits of a MM equipped dreadnought.

 

I also forgo equipping a heavy flamer for the above reasons.

 

Edit:

I realize that all this comes off as a much larger amount of points spent on the same role as a MM speeder, but I do actually try to position my dreadnought through both drop podding (which is much safer than deepstriking alone) and disembarking so the my dread can kill it's intended target but remain 'hiding' behind the drop pod itself, and (hopefully) ready to assault or shoot more my next turn.

[Mysticaria]

My fast melta is.... um... well... actually I just use lots of missiles and slow melta. Vindicators and chainfists usually deal with things that you would normally "melta" and after that its down to the marines on the ground. You know, tacticals and sternguard in rhinos. You don't have to have fast melta in every army. If you've got enough missiles you can stop everything short of a land raider, and when those things show up they usually are filled with terminators bent on getting into combat. Odds are they are coming for you as fast as possible. If that is the case, tactical squads, sternguard, dreadnaughts, and vindicators all should have the speed needed to get a chance for a killing blow.

 

I do like the idea of some podded sternguard though, especially in Vulkan armies. I think I'd take a full squad of 10 guys with 4-6 combimeltas (depending on whether Vulkan was in the army). Options to combat squad on arrival means you could slag 2 vehicles if you wanted, and depending on the character (if any) with the squad, they could even survive for a turn or two.

 

-Myst

[ilnar]

I use a squadron of 2 double melta speeders,

Immune to small arms fire, can move 6" and still fire everything, 12" and can still fire 2

Only 160 points, and suprisingly resistant,

They can take a full tac squad rapid firing without taking major damage.

And they are amazing MC hunters, since they have the 24 inch range.

[Guest Drunk Guardian]

Wow, maturin, I really like those ideas and those numbers. I've never put those things together that way before.

 

In my last game, I used a dual-MM speeder, and it played an instrumental role in winning me the game. It suffered a weapon destroyed result partway through, so having the redundancy of a pair of meltas saved its combat effectiveness. Its last act was to knock the close combat weapon off of a Dreadnought and protect one of my scoring squads by doing so.

 

My favorite and most-often used way to deliver melta is Sternguard by far. Thrown in a Pod, they drop where they're needed most and apply their variety of combi-weapons to whatever needs killing- in this case, their meltas.

 

I've been toying around with Grey Knights melta a bit, too. I haven't used this yet (haven't even finished fleshing out the idea) but I've been thinking of: Inquisitor in Terminator armor with Psycannon and 4 MM Servitors in a Chimera, and some extra henchmen for ablative wounds/utility. The Psycannon is as good or better than the MM's due to more shots and better ballistic skill, and shares the same range band of 24".

 

The other thought I had about it was replacing the "extra henchmen" and one of the MM's with Psykers for a S10, AP1, 36" large blast to complement the 3 remaining melta shots and the relentless Psycannon.

 

Lots of things to ponder :D

 

Not to nitpick, but you can only use 3 MM servitors in a warband squad. So you could theoretically run 3x MM servitors, your TDA Psycannon Inquisitor, and use the rest of the space on Psykers in order to get that blast anyway.

[DarkGuard]

... You don't have to have fast melta in every army. If you've got enough missiles you can stop everything short of a land raider, and when those things show up they usually are filled with terminators bent on getting into combat. Odds are they are coming for you as fast as possible. If that is the case, tactical squads, sternguard, dreadnaughts, and vindicators all should have the speed needed to get a chance for a killing blow.

 

-Myst

 

Indeed you don't, which is why I didn't ask about fast melta, but mobile melta, the only criteria is that you have to be able to fire it on the move, doesn't matter if that move is 6" or 12" ;).

[MagicMan]

My fast melta is.... um... well... actually I just use lots of missiles and slow melta. Vindicators and chainfists usually deal with things that you would normally "melta" and after that its down to the marines on the ground. You know, tacticals and sternguard in rhinos. You don't have to have fast melta in every army. If you've got enough missiles you can stop everything short of a land raider, and when those things show up they usually are filled with terminators bent on getting into combat. Odds are they are coming for you as fast as possible. If that is the case, tactical squads, sternguard, dreadnaughts, and vindicators all should have the speed needed to get a chance for a killing blow.

 

 

Im the same as you, minus the Vindicator.

 

The fastest melta i have is a combat squadded tactical with Melta/combi-melta jumping out of a Rhino.

 

 

I suppose if i played in tournaments i might need it, but i put my faith in Missiles/Dreadnoughts/Chainfists.

[Zynk Kaladin]

My favorite approach would be to use 2 squads of 2 typhoons and put each squads on different sides of the table. They're maneuverability and range, along with their criss-crossing positioning allows them to almost guarantee those valuable side armor shots to take out anything under a landraider's AV. They also deal a nasty punch to hordes with their heavy bolter shots and defensive frag grenades.

 

Much like chess, I like to control the middle of the board as early as possible. I have anti-infantry covered with bolters, so the real threat to the middle would be high AV tanks and transports who want nothing more than to drive straight through the middle. To deal with this I would use a rhino toting a tactical squad with a multi-melta and plasmagun. Obviously, I would need to support the rhino. I think either two vindicators or 3 dakka predators are the best choice because they can deal with heavy infantry where the tacticals are lacking. I'm not really sure which would be more effective, each have their pluses and minuses.

 

A librarian is a must have for anti-psyker. Avenger is a must have while the second power depends, really. I like to run him with a 7 or 8 man sternguard squad with combi-meltas. I keep them close to the middle, but flexible enough to deal with enemies, especially tanks, trying to go through the flanks of my middle-guard army.

 

I'm liking honor guard more, considering they're really fluffy for my army. Idaho pattern, of course. They're great for harassing the enemy's infantry, which frees up the typhoons, MM-tacs, sternguard, dakka preds and/or vindicators for anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry.

 

Too bad I'm all theory and no experience, so it would be great for a more experienced player to comment on my ideas.

[Captain Idaho]

I'm liking honor guard more, considering they're really fluffy for my army. Idaho pattern, of course. They're great for harassing the enemy's infantry, which frees up the typhoons, MM-tacs, sternguard, dakka preds and/or vindicators for anti-tank and anti-heavy infantry.

 

Too bad I'm all theory and no experience, so it would be great for a more experienced player to comment on my ideas.

 

Yay! Another recruit for the Chapter's Honour Guard!

 

I normally win my games because of the very things you mentioned above. The rest of the army shoots and wins the game because the Honour Guard are doing the fighting.

 

Of course, many times the Honour Guard die horribly, because people shoot them dead like dogs! But they normally take someone's eye out with them! Just destroying a single Troops choice before being shot by whole enemy army is enough for them to have earnt their place.

 

Alternatively, if they prevent the enemy attacking because they are worried about Honour Guard then that can give me an advantage as I'm shooting the enemy in their hesitation.

[DarkGuard]

Idaho, where's your Honour Guard kill ratio tracker?! :eek

 

Anyway, seems like another question has run it's course. From now on I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel for ideas, so please people, after this one let me know of your own ideas or things I've missed. I do, however, have this card up my sleeve, and now it's time to play it :whistling:.

 

Objective grabbers/contesters. In particular, last turn objective grabbers/contesters. Scoring bikes, Drop Pods, Land Speeders, even a fast Rhino, all can perform this role, either claiming an objective for you, or denying one for your opponent. All become very useful for doing this at around turn 5-7, and can swing the game in your favour.

 

So my question for you, which units do you use for your late game objective grabs/contests?

 

Now, for me, my scoring unit can't move more than 12" a turn, and so I hope to have them on objectives, or at least very near objectives coming into Turn 5. However, if all else fails, I do have a few units I can use for objective contesting. For this role, I rely on my four Land Speeders. Two MM/HF Speeders, and two Typhoons gives me the ability to have a few fast moving vehicles able to sacrifice shooting to win me the game in the last turn, and they've done that many times. Once I was able to contest multiple objectives using this, making it near impossible for my opponent to win.

 

So come on then guys, what units do you use for late game objective grabs?

[Excubitor]

I've actually started running 10 tactical terminators in my Shrike list I'm playing around with, and I love how well they work.

 

10 terminators, 2 assault cannons and 4 chain fists. Kept in one group or split into 2 units of 5, with fleet they get a surprising amount of manuverability out of Shrike. Very few opponent expect to be assaulted by shooty terminators, especially using fleet. I've found that you can use this to wrong-foot an opponent by getting those power fists/chainfists stuck in where they didn't expect and most certaintly did not want them.

 

Even more fun if you deploy them with Shrike at the start with infiltrate. Split into 2 lots of 5 - one with 2 assault cannons, one with sergeant and 4 chainfists. Chainfist unit starts with Shrike, infiltrates. Assault Cannon unit just goes around shooting stuff, making a nuisance of itself.

 

Something that throws off people once they play this is that I consider Shrike and the terminators sacrificial - they're there to mess with the opponents battle plan while I use turn 1&2 to swing mine into effect. The great thing is, being terminators, they sometimes even survive the game.

 

I've been told to try out assault terminators, as they'll do better, but I doubt it. The infiltrating Chainfists give me a damn potent alpha, beta and gamma strike on vehicles, from Rhino's to Land Raiders. The Assault Cannons make a mess of infantry, transports and the odd MC.

 

Best performance by this hit squad? 2 Land Raiders, 3 Long Fang Squads, 2 Grey Hunter Squads, 1 Rhino, 2 Razorback. None survived, but for 4 turns they were in the midst of my opponents army, and the rest of my army was virtually untouched.

[maturin]

So come on then guys, what units do you use for late game objective grabs?

 

Theoretically, my army has several units which are good for late grabs.

1) LSS with scouts. It's a scoring speeder. The problem is that it's usually destroyed by turn 3 or 4. I think the crew should stop towing a "SHOOT ME" banner behind them when they deploy.

 

2) Scout bikes. Very mobile, and T5 should mean they're somewhat survivable. But for some reason - everyone loves to shoot scout bikers. Even when I say "wouldn't you rather shoot the speeder?" they inevitably shoot the bikers. I don't know why. (Could it be that they're in front of the rest of my army usually?......nah).

 

So, with both fast units out of commission, I'm forced to rely on proper planning and slower movement. Infiltrating sniper scouts and drop pod/dread can position themselves early on to seize/contest. Rhinos and predators move up mid-game to do the same (and since my opponent is busy shooting up the speeders and bikes, they're relatively unmolested).

 

And my last-ditch objective contester is my Gating libby. It's nerve wracking and fun to watch the scatter die roll, even though my libby usually ends up materializing inside a rock somewhere. :jaw:

[Something Wycked]

With C:SM, I prefer to place Sternguard on an objective via a Drop Pod if I'm bringing Cantor; if not, I will drive Tacticals up to the objectives in Rhinos and Razors.

 

In a Blood Angels army, I'll send my fast moving Assault Marines to claim or contest the enemy objective late game, or bring Dante and his Sanguinary Guard down on their heads. Failing that, I'll use my Baal Predator to zip over there with its 18" move to contest.

 

So far with Grey Knights, my late-game scoring units of choice are Interceptors and Dreadknights with Personal Teleporters made Troops via Grand Masters. The 30" shunt move is invaluable, even if they're only contesting the objective.

[Captain Idaho]

Idaho, where's your Honour Guard kill ratio tracker?! :D

 

Beg your pardon, I forgot! Adding it now (only had a single game with them so far!).

[DarkGuard]

Idaho, where's your Honour Guard kill ratio tracker?! ;)

 

Beg your pardon, I forgot! Adding it now (only had a single game with them so far!).

 

No worries, I haven't played 40K in ages myself, been in a War of the Ring campaign, but taking them out for a spin tomorrow, hopefully we can add more kills.

 

Back on topic though, I'd like to say thank you to everyone who has contributed so far. I'd also like to say I don't have a single clue about what to ask now, so I'm throwing this wide open to you guys, if you think of something that an army may need to do just post here and let everyone else join in the fun! :D

[thade]

So guys, what units do you use to deliver your melta to where it is needed?

Most often these days I field my sternguard, and they are packing two combi-meltas.

 

My foot-slogging assault team always has at least one marine with a melta.

 

Typically I buy the nigh-useless single-shot multi-melta for the top of my LRR.

 

Very, very rarely I field one or both of my MM dreadnoughts. (One of them is modeled as a venerable; no venerable dreads for BA...he seldom sees the field.)

 

Also, my librarians can become Str 10. Dornkirk (Mephiston) in particular is my anti-Land Raider device: he tears through them like paper.

[Captain Idaho]

Been using an Attack Biker and a Landspeeder with single Multi-melta in my games, plus a single melta gun in a Tactical squad. Honestly I haven't so far desparately needed melta weapons in my games, but that might be because my list (and my 1750pts list) are sporting 3 Lascannons and 2 Assault Cannons, plus 2 Typhoons.

[Something Wycked]

I'd also like to say I don't have a single clue about what to ask now, so I'm throwing this wide open to you guys, if you think of something that an army may need to do just post here and let everyone else join in the fun! :P

I'll take a crack at it :D

 

Most armies, no matter how deeply assault-oriented, have a shooting element to their army to help take down threats to their assault troops. With that in mind, how does your army deal with absorbing enemy firepower? Do you provide a rock-hard fire magnet to absorb a lot of enemy fire? Do you spend those points elsewhere in additional models to add depth and survivability to your army? Do you have a special trick to simulate the rock-hard quality with a lighter unit?

 

How does your army absorb enemy firepower?

As for me, I very rarely bring a fire magnet; I can count on one hand how many times I've used my Land Raider Crusader. I use the points savings to bring along bigger numbers of models, both in troops and vehicles. I often bring units in pairs so that the loss of one unit does not create a gaping hole in my force's combat capabilities.

 

So how do you deal with enemy firepower, other than destroying it?

[DarkGuard]

How does your army absorb enemy firepower?

As for me, I very rarely bring a fire magnet; I can count on one hand how many times I've used my Land Raider Crusader. I use the points savings to bring along bigger numbers of models, both in troops and vehicles. I often bring units in pairs so that the loss of one unit does not create a gaping hole in my force's combat capabilities.

 

So how do you deal with enemy firepower, other than destroying it?

 

A good choice here, I'll answer quite happily to this.

 

Now, for absorbing anti-infantry, the very simple answer is I don't present infantry targets. Everything is in a tank, rendering anti-infantry guns useless. If all goes to plan, they won't get the chance to use them. Occasionally I will use a small Scout sniper squad with camo cloaks in cover, often on an objective. If anyone has faced up against Pathfinders, you'll know how hard and annoying it is to try and shift a unit with a 2+ cover save, so they soak up anti-infantry firepower well.

 

As for my tanks, I rely on my Vindicator to draw anti-tank firepower away from my Rhinos and Speeders. When the Vindicator dies then the Typhoons and Rifleman Dreads are often next, resulting again in my Rhinos being protected. This often works well, and if my Vindicator doesn't fire, but takes a few turns to die then I'm happy. In larger point games I'm thinking of taking another Vindicator to absorb more firepower and maybe even allow me to fire, or perhaps I may take a Land Raider Crusader that does the same thing, but will be more fluffy for my Honour Guard to ride in (and more useful for counter-attacks).

 

Again, a good choice Something Wycked, thank you! :devil:

[Marine Errant]

Late arrival here - will try and come back for the previous questions later (still at work <_< )

Regarding absorbing enemy fire the best thing I have found is a land raider ares. We are a fairly informal group so things like that are allowed!!!

Nothing beats the sheer horror on your opponents face when you plonk that down on the table and describe what it can do. Every gun in the opposing army is focused on it, leaving the rest of my army to move about in peace......

 

 

That being said, I have only used it about a dozen times......not really sporting otherwise. I tend to rely on having a large number of bodies on the field to absord the inevitable casualties. This is why I never use elite units, with the sole exception of dreads.

[maturin]

So how do you deal with enemy firepower, other than destroying it?

 

This is a great question - one that I hadn't really thought about before.

 

I've realized that my army deals with enemy firepower mostly by dying.

 

:)

 

That is to say, it's a glass cannon, and relies on mobility to deny enemy favorable shots while hitting harder (in a localized area) in return. If they enemy does happen to lay into me, my chances of success start decreasing exponentially. I'll have to keep this even more in mind when I play....