Wolves vs. GK questions

[Tybrus]

Few questions that have come up over the past few weeks...

 

 

This is one I never thought of until someone tried to use it at the LGS...

 

 

1) Can a runic Weapon negate a perils of the warp?

2) Can a Wolf Tail Talisman, be used to negate a perils of the warp?

 

 

These are mostly questions that relate to the new Psi missiles on the GK Stormravens...

 

(Book pages that prove or support your theory on this would be most helpful...

[Grimtooth]

Well both wargear entries point out, "psychic powers" which Mindstrike missiles are not, so I would say no for both.

 

Runic armor as an argument stands a chance as it protects against wounds caused by psychic attacks which Perils of the Warp can be classified as being a wound inflicted not by a successful psychic test, but a specific failed psychic test.

[dswanick]

1) Can a runic Weapon negate a perils of the warp?

2) Can a Wolf Tail Talisman, be used to negate a perils of the warp?

1 & 2) No, Perils of the Warp can not be nullified, to my knowledge. Either by a Runic Weapon(or a Psychic Hood), or a Wolftail Talisman

3) Since it was brought up, Runic Armor should be useable against the wounds as it offers a 5+ Invulnerable save against wounds caused by Psychic attacks and Perils allows Invulnerable saves against its wounds (although it requires 2 successful saves per wound).

[Valerian]

Perils of the Warp, although usually caused by specific rolls on your Psychic Test (and now Mindstrike missiles) is not a Psychic Attack. Therefore, the WTT will not help you, and you cannot cancel it with your Runic Weapon.

 

This is no different than how you've been playing for all of 5th Edition (and before). The only difference is that Perils is no longer just self-inflicted.

 

Edit: Runic Armour won't help either; again because it isn't a Psychic Attack. You need a regular Invulnerable Save to try to avoid it, and even then you have to reroll successful attempts.

 

The lesson here is to keep your Rune Priest in his transport until the Grey Knights Stormraven has been dealt with.

 

Valerian

[Grimtooth]

Perils of the Warp, although usually caused by specific rolls on your Psychic Test (and now Mindstrike missiles) is not a Psychic Attack. Therefore, the WTT will not help you, and you cannot cancel it with your Runic Weapon.

 

This is no different than how you've been playing for all of 5th Edition (and before). The only difference is that Perils is no longer just self-inflicted.

 

Edit: Runic Armour won't help either; again because it isn't a Psychic Attack. You need a regular Invulnerable Save to try to avoid it, and even then you have to reroll successful attempts.

 

The lesson here is to keep your Rune Priest in his transport until the Grey Knights Stormraven has been dealt with.

 

Valerian

 

It is a psychic attack. It is the result of a failed psychic test that wounds the rune priest. Runic armor works against Perils of the Warp. You are locked into the belief that a psychic attack can only come from a successful psychic test. Perils of the Warp shows you that that is not the case.

[Nrthstar]

I've been concerned about this question ever since my second real game of 40k. I conceded to the other players who said I don't get to use my runic armor for perils. I don't believe the other two (wtt, rw) work, but I've always been in the belief that runic armor does.

[Valerian]

@BR,

 

I am fulling willing to concede the point if you can point out for me where it says that Perils is a Psychic Atrack.

 

V

[MalachiOfRuss]

@BR,

 

I am fulling willing to concede the point if you can point out for me where it says that Perils is a Psychic Atrack.

 

V

And this is the problem, as the rules are unclear. It doesn't say one way or another, it simply says that Perils "happens" to the Psyker. In that case I would err on the side of "no" and therefore Runic Armor cannot be used against it.

[Grimtooth]

@BR,

 

I am fulling willing to concede the point if you can point out for me where it says that Perils is a Psychic Atrack.

 

V

 

It is impossible because IIRC their are not "psychic attacks" at all. There are psychic shooting attacks, but even such things like Heroic Sacrifice is not a "psychic attack". Is Mind War a psychic attack? If you check the Psykers section of the BRB, there are no "psychic attacks" defined either. So the only choice is to detail them on a base by base basis and determine if certain attacks are "psychic attacks".

 

So we know that some wounds can be caused by a successful psychic test and wounds can be caused by a specific unsuccessful psychic test. How are those wounds not prevented by a piece of wargear that grants saves against wounds caused by "psychic attacks" now?

[Tybrus]

@BR,

 

I am fulling willing to concede the point if you can point out for me where it says that Perils is a Psychic Atrack.

 

V

 

It is impossible because IIRC their are not "psychic attacks" at all. There are psychic shooting attacks, but even such things like Heroic Sacrifice is not a "psychic attack". Is Mind War a psychic attack? If you check the Psykers section of the BRB, there are no "psychic attacks" defined either. So the only choice is to detail them on a base by base basis and determine if certain attacks are "psychic attacks".

 

So we know that some wounds can be caused by a successful psychic test and wounds can be caused by a specific unsuccessful psychic test. How are those wounds not prevented by a piece of wargear that grants saves against wounds caused by "psychic attacks" now?

 

I had not even thought about Runic Armor till now... So YEAH HOW COME? :ermm:

[Thunderhawk3015]

It is really unclear. Even the local GW can't come up with a firm answer so I'd say play it by ear. Talk to your opponent before hand and see what you can work out. IMO it does, but as there is no clear definition...

[Valerian]

Okay, finally have a chance to go through this with a little more detail:

 

Mindstrike Missiles: Range 72" Strength 4 AP 5 Type Heavy 1, Blast, One shot, and Psi-shock*

 

* Any psyker hit by a mindstrike missile suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects. (C:GK page 57)

 

Perils of the Warp: The forces of the Daemon-haunted Warp claw at the psyker's mind and threaten to engulf and destroy him. the psyker suffers 1 wound with no armour or cover saves allowed. Invulnerable saves are allowed, but the power of the Warp is so great that successful saves must be re-rolled. (BRB page 50)

 

 

Runic Weapon: whenever an enemy model succeeds on a Psychic test within 24" of the bearer, roll a dice - on a roll of a 4+ that power is nullified (C:SW page 36)

 

Perils of the Warp, whether caused by your own poor Psychic Test, or by the secondary effect of being hit by a Mindstrike Missile, does not require your enemy to roll a Psychic test, so you clearly cannot attempt to nullify it with a Runic Weapon.

 

Wolf Tail Talisman: If a model with a Wolf Tail Talisman or the unit he is with is affected by an enemy psychic power, roll a D6. On a roll of a 5+ that power is nullified. (C:SW page 62)

 

Just like the answer above, in no case is Perils of the Warp an enemy psychic power, so you cannot attempt to nullify it with your Wolf Tail Talisman.

 

Runic Armour: Furthermore the wearer of runic armour has a 5+ invulnerable save against all wounds caused by psychic attacks due to his protective runes (C:SW page 61)

 

Finally, Perils of the Warp is not a psychic attack (although it does cause a wound). It is a side effect of either your having rolled a double 1 or a double 6 on your own Psychic test to attempt a psychic power, or a side effect of having been hit by a weapon with Psi-shock.

 

I don't know of anybody, anywhere, that has been allowing Runic Armour to grant save attempts against Perils of the Warp since the release of the Codex Space Wolves in October 2009. Nothing has changed with the release of Codex Grey Knights in April 2011, other than you now have a new cause for Perils.

 

 

V

[dswanick]

I don't know of anybody, anywhere, that has been allowing Runic Armour to grant save attempts against Perils of the Warp since the release of the Codex Space Wolves in October 2009. Nothing has changed with the release of Codex Grey Knights in April 2011, other than you now have a new cause for Perils.

 

 

V

 

Fun, because every group I've played with/talked to agrees that a Perils of the Warp wound is a wound caused by a Psychic Attack and, therefore, allows the Runic Armor to save against it.

[Captain Idaho]

OOOhhhhh! Interesting. :lol:

 

Personally I dislike the idea of Perils of the Warp being a psychic attack, since no-one is technically using a psychic power. It is essentially a daemon attack, or else feedback from the Warp.

 

However, that is not to say there isn't logical argument against this, after all it is a thin line to say the "pyschic attack" is the warp feedback etc.

 

My stance (though not immovable if my opponent is keen on pushing the issue) is the Perils of the Warp is not a Psychic attack since no Psyker passed a test to use the attack (i.e. cause the wound).