GK vehicule summoning

[stephane4985]

As you know, the GK librarian has a power to summon one unit and the unit is place using the deepstrike rules.

 

You can also put warp stabilisation field on vehicule so they can be teleport using the summoning.

 

My first question is, what happens if you summon a razorback with 5 men inside? Do they get summon with the vehicule?

 

My second question is, can a vehicule can pivot after deepstriking?

 

And finally, if the 5 men get teleported with the razorback, can they disembark and shoot in that turn?

[Crynn]

I'll answer them in order mate.

 

1. All the occupants come along on the party bus.

 

2. The vehicle counts as moving flat out, so while it still gets a movement phase technically speaking, it already counts as if it had moved flat out. Vehicles that have moved flat out cannot pivot as they have to remain facing the way the travelled with their flat out move which in this case is the deep strike. There is nothing stopping you however, from just placing it facing any direction you like on the deep strike.

 

3. Again because the vehicle has moved flat out the occupants may not disembark, nor may they shoot from inside the vehicle. The only exception to this is if you summoned a storm raven in which case you could still use the shodow skies special rule to deploy some units.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[stephane4985]

Doens't a vehicule count as moving at cruising and not flat out when deepstriking?

[Something Wycked]

Yep, cruising speed when Deep Striking. Non-Fast vehicles can't fire anything when they do so, and Deep Strike does not grant a cover save when it happens (which you'd normally get from moving Flat Out.) So:

 

Pivoting is a moot point; you can place the vehicle with any facing you'd like when Deep Striking it.

 

The passengers may disembark and shoot.

[Crynn]

I think the summong specifically says that the model counts as moving flat out.

 

Could someone please check that.

[Doomaflatchi]

I think the summong specifically says that the model counts as moving flat out.

 

Could someone please check that.

Nope; just says "using the Deep Strike rules." (C:GK p25)

[Valerian]

I think the summong specifically says that the model counts as moving flat out.

 

Could someone please check that.

Nope; just says "using the Deep Strike rules." (C:GK p25)

 

Yep; says "a vehicle that moves this way counts as having moved flat out." (C:GK p61). In the rules for the Warp Stabilisation Field.

 

Valerian

[Crynn]

Thanks for checking that mate.

 

So no, you may not get out and shoot and you may not pivot.

 

Regards,

 

Crynn

[Doomaflatchi]

Yep; says "a vehicle that moves this way counts as having moved flat out." (C:GK p61). In the rules for the Warp Stabilisation Field.

Valerian

Whoops! Thanks for catching me on that, mate! :huh:

[Something Wycked]

Hah, thats where it is. Warp Stabilisation Field special rules over-ruling Deep Strike rules.

[Decoy]

Can someone quote the Summon spell and wording for WSF? Or at least the pertinent parts, at any rate. I don't have my GK dex on me, and I have a lurking suspicion of something.

[XaClocKWorKoX]

it was talked in another forum i qouted it so look for my post.

but

 

summoning says non vehicles can be summons via using the DSR

 

WSF says that the summoning can summon a vehicle using DSR and when its summoned it goes flat out.

 

thats the TL;DR version of it.

[Something Wycked]

Summoning:

 

This power can be used at the beginning of the Librarian's Movement phase. If the Psychic test is successful, choose a friendly, non-vehicle unit that is not locked in combat anywhere on the battlefield. The chosen unit is removed from the tabletop and immediately placed anywhere within 6" of the Librarian using the Deep Strike rules.

 

WSF:

 

A vehicle with a Warp Stabilisation Field can be the subject of a Librarian's The Summoning psychic power. A vehicle that moves in this way counts as having moved Flat Out.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Hence, 'Summoning' is pretty close to useless. Squads that you'd wanna summon risk landing on the Librarian and rolling on the DS Mishap table (not fun :D ), and vehicles are completely useless (unless you're evil and summon Rhinos in front of your phalanx to shield them from enemy fire, then drive them sideways to let you move+shoot in your turn).

[Master Toddius]

Um, Brothers if your worried about scatter then take the teleport homer wargear for the Libby?

 

Just sayin. :)

[veidin]

Um, Brothers if your worried about scatter then take the teleport homer wargear for the Libby?

 

Just sayin. :lol:

 

You should read the teleport homer rules...just saying :tu:

 

Only works on strike/interceptor/and terminators

[Gentlemanloser]

The only way to make The Summonign work would be to attached the Libby to a Squad of Mystics.

 

But then you can't attach the libby to Mordrak and get him where you want him first turn, for a second turn Summon.

 

Edit:

 

Libby, Mystics, Stormraven?

 

Flat out with the Shrouding to get into position, then Summoning with no scatter.

 

Lots of points sunk into trying to get a single Power to work...

[Master Toddius]

Um, Brothers if your worried about scatter then take the teleport homer wargear for the Libby?

 

Just sayin. :D

 

You should read the teleport homer rules...just saying :P

 

Only works on strike/interceptor/and terminators

 

 

Double checked - Yes, you are correct. It also won't work by any other means so no go on the psychic power. :(

Ah well I tried. ;)

[XaClocKWorKoX]

Libby can take skulls and skulls work

[Gentlemanloser]

Reduce the dice by 1.

 

You're still looking at a world of ain if you try to summon a Rhino, Dread or heaven forbid a Land Raider...

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah, that's the really depressing thing about 'Summoning'. You read the entry and go 'oh cool, like 'Gate of Infinity' but I can teleport almost anything in the army to my side'. Then you try and figure out how to make it work, and GW just drop the ball completely. 'No, teleport homer won't work. Mystics require an Inquisitor to unlock, plus a transport to prevent them dying prematurely. Servo-skulls are easily negated by fast enemy units and are still only reducing by 1D6'. Throne, at least Ultramorons get a locator beacon on their drop pods, and teleport homers that are less restrictive.

[Brother Tual]

And finally, if the 5 men get teleported with the razorback, can they disembark and shoot in that turn?

 

Yes, in this case you can.

 

Despite the rules wording, a razorback cannot move at a speed 'flat out.' 'Flat out' only applies to a FAST VEHICLE. It is the same as any other vehicle trying to move at a speed faster than it is able to ie. Monolith and deep strike. The rules dont specifically cover this.

 

Direct from PG70 (big book) passengers may not ...disembark from a FAST VEHICLE if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in the movement phase.

 

This rule set only applies to a summoned SR. As a razorback cannot move at a speed 'flat out' and secondly, a razorback is not a fast vehicle and even if you were to apply a 'flat out' speed to it nothing suggests that the infantry cannot disembark, I believe you can disembark for these reasons.

 

 

Reclusiarch Darius,

Ultramorons

Really? is this needed? grow up.

 

Summoning is a defensive movement power. Gate can be used both aggressively and defensively. Trying to replicate the aggressive aspect of gate is almost impossible and very expensive. If you are planning or building your list to summon aggressively I think you are making a poor tactical choice. There are easier ways and more reliable ways of getting troop/units to where you need them in an aggressive manner using SR's or DS.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yes, in this case you can.

 

Despite the rules wording, a razorback cannot move at a speed 'flat out.' 'Flat out' only applies to a FAST VEHICLE. It is the same as any other vehicle trying to move at a speed faster than it is able to ie. Monolith and deep strike. The rules dont specifically cover this.

 

Direct from PG70 (big book) passengers may not ...disembark from a FAST VEHICLE if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in the movement phase.

 

This rule set only applies to a summoned SR. As a razorback cannot move at a speed 'flat out' and secondly, a razorback is not a fast vehicle and even if you were to apply a 'flat out' speed to it nothing suggests that the infantry cannot disembark, I believe you can disembark for these reasons.

 

Hey guy, it says 'flat out'. No 'but if you can't normally move flat out', it's just 'you count as moving flat out'. Seems pretty clear to me. Maybe could've been worded better (a refrain I make every time rules get debated), but still. It's hair splitting to try and claim you can still disembark. If you don't believe me, wait for the FAQ.

 

Really? is this needed? grow up.

 

 

On a slightly more serious note, I'm allowed to hate Ultramarines :P because they're boring, straight-laced hypocrites.

 

Summoning is a defensive movement power. Gate can be used both aggressively and defensively. Trying to replicate the aggressive aspect of gate is almost impossible and very expensive. If you are planning or building your list to summon aggressively I think you are making a poor tactical choice. There are easier ways and more reliable ways of getting troop/units to where you need them in an aggressive manner using SR's or DS.

 

I dunno dude. I mean, you could see HOW it might be used well as an aggressive move ie Paladins out of nowhere. It's just they didn't think through how it would work in practise. Execution ruining good concept. Kinda like Purifiers but in reverse.

Defensively....eh, if you're trying to make up for bad positioning, I guess it's useful, but it's also kinda a waste. Defensively (and I know this doesn't really work in practise but meh), I'd only use 'Summoning' to teleport Rhinos in front of my phalanx to block LOS in the enemy turn. It'd be hard to pull off, but got potential right?

[stephane4985]

I thought I had found something, looks like it is useless for vehicule.

 

Bah

[Brother Tual]

All I am saying is that the rules have specified no adverse conditions for any vehicle other than a Fast Vehicle (which a razorback is not) moving at a speed considered to be 'flat out'.

 

I cant see anywhere or any rule that would suggest that a transport, other than a fast vehicle is ever limited to when units can disembark from a vehicle (tank) despite it travelling at any speed. Simply because a transport tank has been deemed to have moved at a speed considered to be 'flat out' does not make it become a fast vehicle.

 

I say this power is defensive and/or reactive as it allows you to attack with a single unit and withdraw it before it would/may otherwise be overwhelmed. Being an elite army you can not afford to sacrifice a unit to cover fire lanes/lines of advance or 'buy' time yet at the same time you cant ignore or allow enemy to move freely and out manouvre you. This power lets you allocate something to a flank or counter manouvre and then immediately withdraw it back to the rest of your support units (or with in range of them). This will also have use when an enemy sneaks a scoring unit onto or towards an obscure objective allowing you to 'shunt' or DS (should you have a unit capable of doing either) to counter and then provide the means to return that unit to the fray instead of foot slogging it all the way back (most likely rendering the unit a waste) This is how I would be using this power almost exclusively.

 

Edit : Why this power is not well supported in an aggressive manner is simply due to the fact that you have to physically get the librarian to an aggressive location in the first instance. Whilst this CAN be done it is not without great risk, cost and commitment. You need to invest in an alpha strike unit/transport AND an additional (or multiple) offensive (combat) unit types. The risk comes from the simple fact that you may fail or be denied the use of the psychic power (not to mention DS scattering onto your own troops!) thus leaving your expensive AND committed librarian, paladins and SR highly exposed, out of position and isolated. The cost of this failure has now crippled your list but the hidden cost comes from the support units (purifiers etc) being largely useless simply because they too are not where they need to be (ie 4 x incinerators on your base line instead of on the enemy base line) forcing your list to now attack in segmented phases without any real offensive cohesion so critically required by an elite list. I would say SR's (similar cost to a kitted up libby) or DS (given +1 or -1 to reserves) or personal teleporters is a much safer and manageable way of covering distance and attacking from vulnerable angles.