Captains and Chapter Masters

[War Angel]

sure they have some good BS, allowing them to hit much more offten, but the thing that captains and commanders really bring to the table, is there high WS, I, and AT. nothing else in the army has that inititive, and while things like eldar will still go before you, its nice to take out a good chunk of lightning claw's or power swords before they even get a chance to attack you.

 

so why give them power fist? sure you could just do the smart thing and not give them a power fist, but then theres predo kantor and captain lysander.

 

in the end, the question is this. Is the special abilitys those two offer worth it?

[Koremu]

There's a reason Captain with Relic Blade is the most popular weapon setup.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

For vanilla, from the list Captains and Masters, the short answer is no. A much better option is to take a relic blade and actually get some work out of that I5.

 

For Lysander, I would say that the Fist of Dorn is a good fit despite wasting his I5. He's got a 2+/3++ and Eternal Warrior, so he should be able to weather the number of attacks that are hitting him before he hits back, and the Fist is S10 rather than S8, which is of course awesome.

 

Pedro's fist, on the other hand, is a purely fluff-driven wargear choice with little tactical advantage. His Chapter Tactics and Inspiring Presence, however, do make him worth taking for sure; there's a reason lots of people who do take him just for these special abilities and not for his combat abilitiy.

[BearersOfSalvation]

The unique ability a captain brings to the list is I5, no one else in the vanilla codex gets that. If you use a power fist, you remove that advantage of striking first, you're vulnerable to dying before you can even strike, and you're not significantly better with it than a regular marine. Take lightning claws or a relic blade on a captain to kill people before they can hit him, and put a fist or two in whatever squad accompanies him. Like Ferrum said, Lysander gets special abilities that make his thunder hammer very nice (immune to ID and really good saves so he doesn't die before striking, plus it's S10) while you take Pedro for his other abilities.

 

Pedro's fist, on the other hand, is a purely fluff-driven wargear choice with little tactical advantage.

 

Amusingly, it has less to do with deliberate fluff than the fact that the original plastic boxed set of marines came with powerfists, bolt pistols, knives, and combat accessories as the only melee weapons. The Rogue Trader scenario that he premiered in used the boxed set marines and boxed set orcs to set up the fight, and he's kept the fist ever since.

[War Angel]

thanks for the bit of history, i didnt really know that.

[DarkGuard]

The other thing to remember is that the Captain can be picked out. With a power fist, as many others have said, he could get taken out before being able to strike, either by another power fist (although he's striking then) or a multitude of attacks. Power fists are best on upgrade characters like Sergeants, where they are 'hidden', in that your opponent can't pick them out. That's why Mordrak gets away with a Daemonhammer, he's not an Independent Character and his Ghost Knight retinue therefore means he cannot be picked out in combat, and power weapon/fist attacks can be diverted from him.