Azza007 Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Or is it Space Wolves? I am in the end stages of reading Battle of the Fang (good read I might add) and have come to realise that this new view of the Rout that we have had in Prospero Burns and now BotF makes me love the Wolves even more. When I was young and first gained knowledge of the Wolves it was reading the excellent Ragnar series by Mr King. I saw the Space Wolves as fun-loving space vikings and instantly thought how cool are these guys! They always came across to me as Space Marines that are cool and fun to be around, the comical relief of 40k. This newer, darker approach has grabbed me as to be more 'realistic' and in the setting of grimdark. The fact that they come across as more barbaric and ruthless than ever before seems to give them an even greater appeal to me. What I was wondering is what other people prefer, the Space Wolves of William King or the new grimdark Rout of Dan Abnett and Chris Wraight? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 When I was young and first gained knowledge of the Wolves it was reading the excellent Ragnar series by Mr King. I saw the Space Wolves as fun-loving space vikings and instantly thought how cool are these guys! They always came across to me as Space Marines that are cool and fun to be around, the comical relief of 40k. We must've read two different Omnibus.. because I didn't get that feeling at all. Admittedly, I prefer the newer series, and feel that the two mentalities should be reversed. If anything, the Wolves would be more grim and primal now than back then, given the incursion of Chaos is now a constant, whereas before the Heresy, it was non-existent (atleast in combative armies), causing the Wolves to be more on guard and ruthless. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2775527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lothbrok Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 the rout all the way. king's wolves while cool just didnt have the same sort of depth or flavor they seemed almost like ultramarines in wolf pelts while the rout are some hardcore alien killers. on slightly different note abnetts wolves are better in how he approached the viking theme. he didnt just try to put vikings in power armor but took an approach that added a good mix of awesome historic viking and crazy psycho werewolf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2775702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 the rout all the way. king's wolves while cool just didnt have the same sort of depth or flavor they seemed almost like ultramarines in wolf pelts while the rout are some hardcore alien killers. on slightly different note abnetts wolves are better in how he approached the viking theme. he didnt just try to put vikings in power armor but took an approach that added a good mix of awesome historic viking and crazy psycho werewolf. i have got to ask, have you even read anything of king's Wolves or mmcneils' ultramarines? normally i just ignore stuff i disagree with, but something that blantantly incorrect had to be addressed. i can understand why people favor the grimdark wolves over the modern wolves, but atleast know the subject matter in some regard before giving a opinion. and i personally like the Wolves from the HH short story "Wolf at the Door". savage and brutal while retaining some of the attitude the modern Wolves have. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2775715 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Or is it Space Wolves? I am in the end stages of reading Battle of the Fang (good read I might add) and have come to realise that this new view of the Rout that we have had in Prospero Burns and now BotF makes me love the Wolves even more. When I was young and first gained knowledge of the Wolves it was reading the excellent Ragnar series by Mr King. I saw the Space Wolves as fun-loving space vikings and instantly thought how cool are these guys! They always came across to me as Space Marines that are cool and fun to be around, the comical relief of 40k. This newer, darker approach has grabbed me as to be more 'realistic' and in the setting of grimdark. The fact that they come across as more barbaric and ruthless than ever before seems to give them an even greater appeal to me. What I was wondering is what other people prefer, the Space Wolves of William King or the new grimdark Rout of Dan Abnett and Chris Wraight? The Rout. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2775750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 wolf at the door ... there inteligent and grim and very not the drunken barbarians that irk me so that said abenet is almost there to my mind a melding of the two with far less maks would be perfect Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2775876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I like them both. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2775940 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wraight Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I like them both. I hope lots of people feel like this. Bill King's Space Wolf books are loved by many people, and rightly so. Plenty of readers got into the hobby through reading them, and they present a very coherent, very well structured view of the 40K universe. It's no insult to those books to suggest that they might appeal to a newer, or perhaps younger, audience to 40K than some other novels in the range. Recent books on the Wolves have taken a slightly different approach. The tone in SM novels released in the last few years, such as the Night Lords and the Salamanders series, is much darker - more 'adult', I guess. That's the natural result of a shared setting where different authors have different visions of 40K, and of a background lore that's slowly evolving. I suspect the original Space Wolf quadrilogy (a word?) will remain very popular, and many readers will prefer those books to the portrayal of the SWs in Prospero Burns or Battle of the Fang. There'll be others who feel exactly the opposite. It strikes me as a Very Good Thing that a Chapter as interesting as the Space Wolves has such different portrayals available. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I like a mix between all three authors. With Chris' depiction the closest for me overall. But I think different SW's will have varying degrees of the personalities shown in the three efforts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I think I like the wolf at the door version best so far that had ruthlessness but also the but also a sense that they cared for the little guy which I feel is a big part the wolves appeal Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dienekes96 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I fell in love with the 40K universe for two main reasons. The evocative art of the late 80s and early 90s, and Bill King's stories (most specifically his two Siege of Terra bits). When Black Library kicked off over 10 years ago, and decided on a first few novels, I was most excited for Space Wolf. Space Wolf, and the next three novels, are tonally a bit different from modern BL fiction, but the current authors working with Space Marines are certainly standing on King's shoulders. King's work has a bit more "boy's adventure" to it than the current Marine fiction. But it also has good characterization. King remembers that Space Marines are both human and inhuman, and to focusing stories on Ragnar needed to highlight some of their humanity. I enjoy the new characterizations as well. Battle of the Fang is resting on my table, waiting for me to finish Age of Darkness (two stories to go - I just began "Rebirth"and I have ADB's to finish it off...I didn't go in order). I actually recently completed Prospero Burns, and the Wolves are my favorite chapter. I liked almost everything about it. It has a different feel, and certainly recast the Wolves a bit. But only a bit. Considering how patchwork the 40K universe is, different interpretations are the norm. I also enjoyed Mike Lee's Wolf at the Door in the previous anthology. I really enjoy the short fiction about the siege of the Fang by Apostate forces in WD 244 or 245. I think Gav Thorpe wrote that. Even then, like any good enthusiast, I have my own view of the Wolves, informed by all of the authors that have written them, as well as what has seeped into my own perspective from completely unrelated sources. I do feel that BL fiction has evolved over the years. But I still really enjoy those King novels, and I still love the character of Ragnar. Looking forward to Battle of the Fang quite a bit. It has gotten extensive praise. Starting that this week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azza007 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 I was merely putting down what I saw the Wolves as in the Ragnar books, everyones opinions are different, and thats how they came across to me then and even now. I may not have put it down in the best way but that was the closest I could put them down. I had read the BotF straight after re-reading Space Wolf, and to me that just seemed the difference, happy Space Vikings vs grim and brutal Viking warriors. I agree with Chris when he puts it as the boy-ish adventure vs the dark adult ways. I still love the Ragnar series, just this new direction of the Rout appeals more to me and seems more right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxvaderxx Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Granted i have not read much of the lore, how ever they have never struck me as the comical relief of 40K. To be honest, i dont even get the whole "Drunken warrior" theme most people associate them with. In fact, they literary strike me as the vikings from 13th warrior taken to the future. I think that this perception (drunken warriors) is mostly due to the fact that they are the only non religious fanatic like chapter out there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776135 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki-LaughingDeath Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 What are you trying to say...drinking ale isn't a religious experience? Great now my faith is shaken to the core... It's an act like the duel in 13th Warrior, properly titled Eaters of the Dead a modern retelling of Beowulf by Micheal Crichton....loosing my copy is one of the reasons that I don't loan out my personal library any more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 the drunk attitude actually comes more from forums like these and a lot of peoples perception then the actuall written texts. i believe in one of the books it's mentioned we usually only feast after a prolonged campaign etc. can't come up with the source atm though.. the same goes for the wulfen. a lot of people like werewolves and so instantly think of the wulfens as were wolves while infact, a wulfen has quite a dark feeling to it and truely is a curse. read wolf's honour and you'll get what i mean ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 If anyone's read any of the Mercy Thompson books by Patricia Briggs, I see Wulfen as the werewolves in that series when they're pissed, but still have enough control to stay human. Lots of gutteral noises, and a feral gleam played over amber-hot, dilated yellow eyes giving you an almost vacant death stare. Like a tiger in the brush, just before the strike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2776557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 the drunk attitude actually comes more from forums like these and a lot of peoples perception then the actuall written texts. i believe in one of the books it's mentioned we usually only feast after a prolonged campaign etc. can't come up with the source atm though..the same goes for the wulfen. a lot of people like werewolves and so instantly think of the wulfens as were wolves while infact, a wulfen has quite a dark feeling to it and truely is a curse. read wolf's honour and you'll get what i mean :) Yup, or listen to "Thunder from Fenris", or even "Battle of the Fang". Turning Wulfen, fully falling to the beast within, is not honorable. One of the things I love is the theme of the "inner beast" keeping it to the front in battle as much as possible for strength, but keeping it controlled and not succumbing to it fully. Some Wolves are better then holding it back vs others. Some situations will make it harder then others to keep it controlled. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2777172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schertenleib Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If anyone's read any of the Mercy Thompson books by Patricia Briggs, I see Wulfen as the werewolves in that series when they're pissed, but still have enough control to stay human. Lots of gutteral noises, and a feral gleam played over amber-hot, dilated yellow eyes giving you an almost vacant death stare. Like a tiger in the brush, just before the strike. I have to agree with this completely, but then again I am a big fan of the Mercy Thompson series too. :) I think the only Space Wolves story I have not liked has been their role in "Battle for the Abyss". Too much of the drunken brawler Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2777478 Share on other sites More sharing options...
clanfield Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 on a side note the fight between russ and magnbus in thousand sons was brilliant i felt that russ was done justice for the first time ,but then again in prospero burns i felt russ's true nature was reveled ,i just didnt like all the leather gimp masks they wore:) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2777504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donutzot Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 If anyone's read any of the Mercy Thompson books by Patricia Briggs, I see Wulfen as the werewolves in that series when they're pissed, but still have enough control to stay human. Lots of gutteral noises, and a feral gleam played over amber-hot, dilated yellow eyes giving you an almost vacant death stare. Like a tiger in the brush, just before the strike. I have to agree with this completely, but then again I am a big fan of the Mercy Thompson series too. :rolleyes: I think the only Space Wolves story I have not liked has been their role in "Battle for the Abyss". Too much of the drunken brawler Pfff that drunken brawler is one of the reasons why I started playing Space wolves. Well actually space wolves is my first army of real 40K and people just had to say they are like the space vikings. And I was sold Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230867-vlka-fenryka/#findComment-2777578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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