Deff Rolla in assault (Equipment or hull?)

[Spear of Achilles]

A Deff Rolal counts as equipment (i.e. can't be destroyed with 'weapon destroyed' results, like a dozer blade for example). Now, when you assault a wagon with a rolla, does the rolla count as the hull for contact purposes? Conversley, if you tank shock or ram with a rolla, does the hull of the wagon still have to make contact with the foe, or just the rolla? Page 68 just says you need to make contact to tank shock a foe; So if I tank shock and just the rolla hits their bases, can the foe attack the wagon in my assault phase (like any normal hull-to-base vehicle would be), or do they have to go around the rolla and actually touch the hull when it's their turn? The way it seems written (with proper distance judgment), a rolla can tank shock a foe without them beging able to touch its hull. Another example. The hull is 7" from their closest guy in the assault phase, but the rolla is within 6". Do they get to assault me?

 

I measure all my distances from the hull when i move, so I'm wondering if my extra " of Rolla is giving me unfair free hits without risking my hull.

[dswanick]

You can't pick and choose when to count the Rolla as "there" for measurement purposes and "not there" for other measurement purposes. It's either something you measure for/to or not. Anything else is modeling for advantage.

[Spear of Achilles]

Not really. You don't count the dozer blade when you try to assault a vehicle with one. Conversely, it does not say you need to touch a target with the hull when you tank shock, you just make contact with the enemy unit. You don't assault a leman russ by touching its battle-cannon. So clarify (without some slight about 'modeling with advantage'...the normal deffrolla model stands out from the hull a good deal): IS the deff rolla part of the hull for assault purposes? And do you ignore it when tank shocking and HAVE to touch the target with the hull?

[greatcrusade08]

ive always taken the "always measure to the hull" literally.. the death roller is not part of the hull, its an add-on..

[Tanhausen]

But when it ramms, you stop when the rolla hits a target... or do you move the extra 2-3 inches until the actual hull touches the enemy?

[greatcrusade08]

But when it ramms, you stop when the rolla hits a target... or do you move the extra 2-3 inches until the actual hull touches the enemy?

 

its an interesting conundrum.. according to the rules, a vehcile only occupies the area of its hull.. but then you have the actual practical issue, much like the soulgrinder/defiler..

for practical purposes youd stop once the death roller hits the target, but for measuring the distance travelled id say use the hull as per the rules

[Tanhausen]

for practical purposes youd stop once the death roller hits the target, but for measuring the distance travelled id say use the hull as per the rules

 

Erm...

 

If I measure from the rolla, say I move 2"... ho much would it be if I measured from the hull? :)

 

In my area, its house ruled that the rolla is a weapon (hence it can be destroyed) but to assault it/contest objectives, you have to get to the hull.

[greatcrusade08]

If I measure from the rolla, say I move 2"... ho much would it be if I measured from the hull? :)

 

In my area, its house ruled that the rolla is a weapon (hence it can be destroyed) but to assault it/contest objectives, you have to get to the hull.

 

the problem there is that some may model for gain.. and have rollas that stick out several inches

i suppose it you consider it a weapon, the its much easier to work with

[Grey Mage]

I count the rolla for all purposes- something that massive I tend to consider part of the hull. It blocks off an entire side of the vehicle for goodness sakes.

[Something Wycked]

I count the rolla for all purposes- something that massive I tend to consider part of the hull. It blocks off an entire side of the vehicle for goodness sakes.

This.

 

It just makes more sense this way; the Battle Wagon has to stop with its Deff Rolla 1" away from an enemy model to Tank Shock/Ram, so it should count as "hull" for all purposes. Vehicles have about two things that stick out from them that other units/tape measures can make contact with- weapons and hull. If its not a weapon that can be destroyed, it is instead a part of the hull.

 

A defense against Ork players who are trying to gain advantage- if they measure the movement of the Battle Wagon from the tip of the Deff Rolla and then later claim you can't measure to the Deff Rolla for range purposes (shooting, assault, whatever,) then they are at best ignorant of the rules... and at worst, cheating.

[timmytool]

I play in a store where one of those ?blainblades? are used as a deff rolla, set up like a mining wheel. It is almost as long as the tank, so it is used as part of the tank. It can be cc'ed and counts as part of the tank for the 50% rule and movement.

He has to move it 12" or 6" but turned with its side exposed when coming in from reserves too(no overhang or pop). but as it is a open top vehicle it is almost impossible to surround it to kill the embarked when it goes pop.

 

He still gets some advantage but were not going to give him the best of both worlds. How do you guys treat dozer blades/siege shields?

 

Also the deff rolla is a vehicle upgrade that changes the tank shock rules, it cant fire/shoot or cause close combat attacks therefor it is not a weapon for removal with the vehicle damage chart.

[Grey Mage]

Dozers and seigeshields I treat the same way- part of the hull for all purposes. Just like the deerslayer on my little brothers pickup.

[Something Wycked]

Concur. It is just easier to measure to the siege shield on my Vindicators instead of holding the tape measure over the top of the shield, trying to keep it in line with the front of the actual hull. I can see where someone who uses Rhinos with dozer blades would object, though, since you're effectively moving the access points 1" further back on the hull.

[Marshal Serion]

I never count them as part of the hull. All measurements (even for tank shock) measure from hull to hull, before movement.

 

This creates a few disadvantages for the ork player:

 

1. They lose 1-2" of distance because the deff rolla can't stick out over the deployment zone line.

2. If they move, disembark, and assault, they may or may not be able to put orks in front of the deff rolla, depending on how far the deff rolla sticks out from the hull.

3. They have to remember that getting the deff rolla within 3" of an objective doesn't work in seize ground missions (won a tournament match because of this oversight).

 

 

All in all, the advantage of the deff rolla far outweighs the disadvantages, but if the ork player isn't paying attention, you can catch them in a bind.