IA: Five Suns

[exetus]

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Index Astartes: Five Suns

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Anyone can simply hate - that is the providence of fools. To hate the right person at the right time, and for the right purpose and in the right way, to stoke the fires of anger and inflame the passion of the righteous - that is the power within us. The application of our hate is the power that crushes the traitor beneath the soles of our feet. Feed upon it! Channel it! Wield it as the instrument of heresy's annihilation! - Chapter Master Tlaocatl M35 -

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he Five Suns trace their lineage back to the early parts of the 33rd Millennium and have been found at the forefront of many major engagements to include the Sabbat Worlds Crusade and defense of the Imperium during many of the Black Crusades. Proud descendants of Jaghatai Khan, they are 4th Founding successors to the heritage of the White Scars and embrace the hit-and-run warfare preached by their gene-father, the Great Khan himself. Their name is synonymous with hate where it comes to the enemies of the Imperium, whether from within or without and their tactics are described as brutal at best, for they embrace the knowledge that hate is the only defense that Mankind has against the predations of its myriad foes.

Founding

Assault Marine of the Five Suns

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he origins of the Five Suns is traced back to early M32 as Mankind continued to regain all that had been lost during the Arch-traitor’s war against his father. With the White Scars and their progeny responsible for the defense of large parts of the galaxy’s core, it was natural that another successor be assigned a portion of that responsibility. Thus, to bolster the defense of three separate segmentae, the newly formed chapter was directed to operate along the western edge of the Ultima Segmentum. It was here that Tegujin Khan and the other senior cadre of the White Scars that had been selected to lead this new chapter would baptize the 116th Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. With the approval of the Adeptus Terra and in keeping with the traditions of his steppe-clan, Tegujin refused to provide his chapter with a name, declaring that the name would be earned through action or association. The battle barges Apocalyptus Rex and Tyrannus Excelsior and two strike cruisers composed the entire fleet of the Chapter upon commissioning and would provide them with a base of operations until a homeworld could be found.

Utilizing charts created by the Jaghatai Khan during the Great Crusade and the suggestions of the Chapter’s Soul Seers, Tegujin guided the fleet to the edge of the Texol system. Comparing the older data with his own, Tegujin ordered a quick scan of the system and was shocked to detect signals coming from a planet designated as 17105. The Great Khan’s records had revealed a destroyed human civilization detected upon a barren rock, but the nearness of the planet to the stars had prohibited further exploration. Tegujin ordered a more thorough investigation of the system.

Descent of Gods

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eep scans showed lush jungles and plentiful life across the continents, seas teemed with life and signs of sparse cultivation centered around what appeared to be massive pyramids of black stone. The signals, however, radiated from antenna farms that protruded from the surface of the oceans, ancient dialects that appeared to also carry a binary code. When envoys of the Chapter made planetfall, a large host of primitives emerged from the jungles, challenging but not threatening, while the antennae fell silent.

Tegujin and his Astartes were received as gods amongst the natives, who they saw were in the process of a vast harvest, securing the stores in the depths of the massive pyramids. A feast was thrown as the night encroached, but as first one, then a second and a third sun appeared on the horizon with the dawn, the festivities ended and many of the primitives gestured to the entrances of the black structures while hundreds gathered weapons and began to stream past the questioning Space Marines, shouting “Tzonti”. Their curiosity bore fruit when the waves erupted with the warped and degenerate parodies of human and machine amalgams.

While fearless, the primitives just couldn’t compete with the more advanced enemy from the seas and they fell in the hundreds, falling back to their pyramid cities. It was then that the Astartes noted two things: the primitives were stalling, sacrificing their warriors to enable the young and the old to reach the safety of the pyramids; the other was that the mutants from the sea were waging a war of capture, not conquest. Thousands were being wounded and not killed, only to be drug into transports that had emerged from the waves.

It was then that Tegujin and his captains decided that they could not let the primitives fall prey to the monsters that assailed them and stepped from the shadows to confront the mutants. Before they could even say a word, a weapon blasted an Astartes from his feet and combat was joined against the Tzonti (demons from the sea). As the Tzonti mutants retreated, the remaining primitives fled to their pyramids, offering to Tegujin and his battle brothers to join them before sealing themselves in. A signal from the Master of the Fleet indicated that the radiation levels were climbing rapidly and the Astartes of Chapter 116 returned to their orbiting vessels and watched a world die.

Rebirth

A

s 17105 continued its orbit, it drew closer to the other four stars and their radiation washed through the atmosphere, plants and animals dying within hours and days, burning under the intense fires of the heavens. In less than a month, all traces of vegetation had burned from the surface and the upper levels of the seas boiled. Thick clouds of ash and vapor clouded the skies and the nearness to the gravity wells of the stars sent massive earthquakes through the planet, volcanoes erupting and adding their plumes of ash to the skies.

It would be two years before 17105 would emerge from the cauldron of stars, the surface scoured of life, the ruins of great cities amidst the featureless deserts of rock and soil. Volcanic upheavals wracked the planet as it emerged, springs erupting from rents in the crust and massive tides washing back in as the magnetic poles restored themselves. Torrential downpours from the skies seeded the surface with rivers, lakes and ponds and then… life. The entrances to the pyramids opened and from them emerged the primitives, pale and undernourished from two years beneath the surface, but driven. Within days they had seeded their fields and released animals into the wild and the planet healed itself, thousands of years of evolution accelerating growth from radiation hardened seed casings.

And when the Tzonti emerged from the surf once again, the battle brothers of Chapter 116 were there to meet them en force. In a series of battles that tested the new Chapter’s abilities, it would take two years before they could assault the Tzonti’s main undersea fortress. For all their resilience, however, they could not stand before the Astartes and live; Tegujin Khan’s final assault lasted a mere 59 minutes.

Ascension

W

hen the cleansing was complete, Tegujin Khan and but five of his ten captains remained as they presented the heads of the Tzonti rulers to the Nahazi, proving that their predations were at an end. It was upon the great temple of Xotilihuatl that the combined rulers of the Nahazi tribes made their offerings to the Astartes and praised Tegujin Khan. When he deferred the honor to his subordinates, the Nahazi declared them as mighty as the Five Sons of their mythos, heirs of Tzecatl, bringers of life and death. The Chapter Master was so moved by their homage that he declared the Chapter nameless no more in honor of his five captains. Texolocan XI would be the home of the Five Suns, their numerical markings replaced with the radiant sun and Romani numeral V.

Homeworld

Texolocan XI

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esignated 17105 during the Great Crusade, Texolocan XI is one of two dozen planets orbiting a rare quintuple star. At the core of the system, three main sequence stars orbit around a common point and are orbited themselves by two white dwarf stars. While part of the entire Texol system, Texolocan XI and three other planets orbit the binary white dwarf stars in slightly over a standard Terran year. The binary stars, in turn, complete an orbit around the trinary core every 97 years. Every 95 years, in an event known as “the Searing,” the binary stars make their closest approach to the trinary core, subjecting the four planets in their orbit to extreme amounts of radiation that burns the life from the surface and boils the top layers of the oceans away, leaving only the animals that can survive deep below alive. This event lasts for two years before the stars separate enough to return the planet to levels safe enough for life.

It is unknown whether the plant or animal life was gene-engineered at one point to withstand the fires of radiation, but shortly after the Searing, when the moisture in the atmosphere rains down and the gravitational shifts force intense weather changes, life begins anew upon the surface. Splitting from casings that are enough to stand the stellar furnaces, fast growing plant and wildlife quickly carpet the planet and turn the blackened planet into a verdant jungle. Vast mineral deposits from the volcanic activity that follows each Searing fertilize the land, making pockets of soil rich for cultivation; the pockets are rare and zealously protected by the natives that claim them.

The tribes that inhabit the planet call themselves the Nahazi, which means “People of the Sun,” and they venerate the stars that bring both life and death to the planet in equal measure. Descended from the original settlers, they lead a largely agrarian society that is based upon gathering resources in preparation for each Searing. Strict codes of honor and religion bind family groups to the stepped pyramids they shelter within during the centennial stellar event, but the rarity of land available for agriculture leads to frequent wars between the myriad pyramid collectives. This, in turn, breeds a warlike society that is rich for exploitation by the Five Suns.

As the fires of the Five sear the life from the face of our world, so too do the Five Suns sear the stain of heresy from the soul of the Imperium
- Lord Tlanextic, 4th Brethren M34 -

The ruined cities of the original settlers still dot the landscape, testament to mankind’s hubris. The ancient technologies had not taken into account a two-year battle against three suns and had failed, one by one, till only the cities beneath the oceans remained. Scientists who had prepared for the event had created stepped pyramids upon the surface to help protect limited numbers of settlers from the event while those that lived beneath the oceans turned a blind eye to those that died in their hundreds of thousands upon the land. In homage to these scientists the people of their planet, the Five Suns fortress monastery is a series of massive pyramids known as Black Rocks and stands upon the highest point of the planet where its numerous void shields and advanced technology protect the Chapter during the Searing.

Organization

Five Suns Chapter Organization

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he Five Suns Chapter is largely organized as dictated by the Codex Astartes, but what differences exist can be attributed to their beliefs; nine companies known as brethren, each approximately 100 Astartes strong, form the combat core of the Chapter. A tenth training company exists outside of the standard force structure and is composed of the Chapter's scouts. While the number and organization of the companies remains the same, it is the Ninth Brethren, not the first, that is the Veteran Company. Nine is the number of earthly hells that a Battle Brother must endure along his Journey as a member of the Prepared. When he has attained the mastery that comes with being one of the Scarred, he is truly ready to be accepted into the halls of greatness at the side of the great heroes of the Imperium, long gone. As such, their organization reflects the order of importance to the Chapter; from "simple" assault, to ranged warfare, to Tactical prowess to Battle Company to Veteran Company.

Comprised of the most experienced and greatest warriors within the Chapter, every member of the Ninth is a hero in his own right. Known as “The Scarred” for their ritualistic scarring and tattoo across the scalp upon induction, they are also the only brothers of the Chapter with access to Tactical Dreadnought Armor. While largely eschewed by the White Scars and their successors, the thirteen assault suits available to The Scarred are held in great reverence and those that have borne them into battle bear the distinction amongst the Five Suns of having never once retreated or fallen back in a battle.

The First and Second Brethren respectively comprise the Devastator and Assault Reserve companies, with the Third and Fourth being the Tactical Reserve companies. Companies Five through Eight are the line Battle Companies and bear the majority of combat for the Chapter. Together, companies One through Nine are known as the Extoluatl, or “the Prepared.”

The Scout company is not designated a number, but retains the same function as the Tenth Company of most other Chapters; here the inductees to the Five Suns begin their lives as scouts and are known as Kaluacax, meaning “the Shorn.” As novices of the Five Suns, they are forbidden to grow their hair until they earn their names and become battle brothers of the Extoluatl thus earning the right to display honor braids. The Shorn rarely deploy as a fighting force with only the most able squads being called upon to perform the role of infiltrators or advance reconnaissance parties for the Chapter.

Combat Doctrine

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ike their forebears, the Five Suns embrace lightning warfare as espoused by Jaghatai Khan, but where many of the White Scars successors favor bikes, the Five Suns instead show a predilection for jump packs. With dense foliage covering most of the planet and non-conducive to the use of bikes, the Brethren favor the jump pack; more mobile for the individual, it retains the advantage of speed in attack and withdrawal. As such, the Five Suns conduct their hit-and-run attacks with a heavy mixture of Land Speeders and Assault Marines, shaping the battlefield to their liking and allowing the terror of being dismantled piecemeal by a swift-moving enemy eat at the morale of their enemies. It is also common for them to take prisoners that their librarians, “Stormwalkers,” can better determine their enemies fears to employ against them.

Largely operating without armor support in the form of Land Raider, Predator or Vindicator tanks, the Chapter relies heavily upon Thunderhawk Gunship support and it is not uncommon for an enemy to react in one direction to a hit-and-run attack, only to suffer a blistering assault from the air from an entirely different direction. As a result of this dependence, the Astartes pilots of the Five Suns are amongst the most skilled of any Chapter at conducting close air support and aerial combat. This also drives much of the Chapter’s tactical doctrine as it is customary for the Five Suns to assault landing facilities first in order to establish an airhead and ensure their own air superiority. Unlike many other Chapters, this also means that it is rare for the Five Suns to deploy combat forces numbering less than two Brethren.

Beliefs

Your existence is at an end - you become the living dead, brethren - not when you stop loving but stop hating. Hatred is the fire that consumes weakness. It preserves: in it, in its chemistry, resides the power of life; the power to preserve it and the power to take it away.
- Soul Healer Tlexicatl M34 -

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he Five Suns do not recognize the Emperor as a god but, like the White Scars, see him as the Great Unifier and an individual of exemplary honor and ability in whom all should aspire to. The Brethren fully believe that the Emperor's sacrifice of his body gave the Imperium a continued chance of existence and all Mankind is indebted to Him and charged with upholding the ideals he set forth during the Great Crusade. As such, they refute the teachings of the Eccelsiarchy, embracing the Emperor's vision of a secular Imperium, free from religion. As such, any who turn from or shun His righteous path earn their undying enmity. To accomplish this purity, the Chapter believes that the sacrifice of their enemies upon the field of battle will allow the Imperium to endure. The Conviction of Hate, as preached by the Soul Healers of the Chapter, guides the traditions and actions of the Five Suns and has led to both approval and consternation from other factions within the Imperium.

The Five Suns accept hate as the sole emotion during battle capable of defending Mankind against its myriad foes. To this end, the very fabric of the Chapter revolves around the removal of all emotion in battle save hatred; hatred is the source of pure, undistilled rage against which no enemy can resist. Horus Lupercal was once loved; it was this love and the implicit trust that came with it that enabled the Great Heresy, eternally staining the honor of all Astartes. Symbolically, to remove the weakness of loveand to represent the personal sacrifice each Marine makes in service to the Emperor, the Five Suns conduct the Sundering, the violent removal of the primary heart just prior to ascension from one of the Shorn to the Prepared. With this gesture, the warrior is pledged through death to the Emperor and the Imperium. If the novice survives the ordeal, the heart is replaced; if not, he was not worthy to walk the path of hate to complete his Journey as one of the Extoluatl. Should he survive the Sundering, the battle brother is awarded his name and fully inducted into the ranks of the Five Suns where he will walk his path through the ranks of the Prepared. They are so named because they are now worthy of death in the service of the Emperor and the Great Khan and there is no greater death amongst the Five Suns than to die upon the field of battle.

Hatred breeds anger; anger is a great force. If you control it, it can be transmuted into a power which can move whole worlds and conquer the galaxy
- 3rd Catechism, the Conviction of Hate -

Thus anointed, the Five Suns prosecute wars against the foes of Mankind with a zeal that borders on the excessive at times, for they are brutally thorough in every action and truly embrace the idiom of, “suffer not the unclean to live.” Entire planets have burned in the wake of the Five Suns to ensure the complete excision of heresy and such actions have brought the enmity of the Eccelsiarchy while at the same time earning the tacit approval of many Puritan members of the Inquisition. Because of this abhorrence for all enemies of the Imperium, the Five Suns have been known to entirely disassociate with those who they believe to have consorted with the mutant, alien or the heretic, even other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. It is not that they hate these factions, but they do harbor resentment towards those within the Imperium that encourage a counter-culture to the ideals set forth by the Emperor, Himself.

Gene-seed

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he Five Suns gene-seed is free of any defects, but the tribal tendencies of their forebears and the traditional warlike nature of Nahazi manifest themselves in the battle brothers of the Chapter. Especially prevalent amongst the novices and the youngest of the Five Suns, each brother must constantly fight to retain their composure, for it is in their blood for them to be quick to anger. Until such genetically disposed urges can be controlled, the Shorn are unable to participate in combat actions as they remain too unpredictable. The Chapter attempts to balance this out by encouraging honor bouts amongst the scouts to enable them to release some of their aggression.

[NightrawenII]

Okay, I'm going to keep my C&C short, simple and informative.

After reading this article, I can say that the Five Suns live in crazy star system, have confusing organisation, like jump packs and hate everyone and errm... That's all. But I have yet to see, where this all come from...

 

WHY?

 

+++

Btw, Khorne is more than pleased by this:

 

"Hatred breeds anger; anger is a great force. If you control it, it can be transmuted into a power which can move whole worlds and conquer the galaxy."

~ 3rd Catechism, the Conviction of Hate

[exetus]

...live in a crazy star system

Who else has a crazy star system? I thought it was a nice touch because I never hear of a quintuple star. I know that they exist, so why not have a Chapter based around one? In addition, instead of everyone just saying "they live like this for no reason, I wanted there to be a reason for the pyramids and the religion that eventually shapes the chapter to push them along the Mesoamerican path. Perhaps executed incorrectly?

 

...like jump packs...

It's part of their embracing individual blade skill instead of bike skill. Their planet teems with dense foliage, not conducive to the use of bikes, where the individual with a jump pack has better mobility and yet retains the advantage of speed in attack and retreat.

 

...Hate everyone...

Just like most of the Chapters out there, except these guys use that hatred to fuel their righteousness in prosecution of the Imperium's enemies. They don't actually HATE everyone, but they do resent factions within the Imperium that they see as a counter-culture to the ideas of the Imperium as set forth by the Emperor.

 

...have confusing organization...

This ties in with the belief structure that they have adopted over the years. Nine is the number of earthly hells that a Battle Brother must endure along his Journey as a member of the Prepared. When he has attained the mastery that comes with being one of the Scarred, he is truly ready to be accepted into the halls of greatness at the side of the great heroes of the Imperium, long gone. As such, their organization essentially reverses the order in which they see as important. From "simple" assault, to ranged warfare, to Tactical prowess to Battle Company to Veteran Company.

[voi shet magir]

I like everything about this chapter. There appear to be reasons for everything, nobody needs to know what they actually are. The amount of detail is almost perfect and compares favorably with the good GW articles.

 

If you have some kind of valedictory story, exetus that would probably balance well. That would be something like departure of the primarch in the raven guard, imperial fist, or alpha legion articles. Not the death of tegujin, but somebody shooting all the weregeld. Maybe it is not a story IA though.

[NightrawenII]

Who else has a crazy star system? I thought it was a nice touch because I never hear of a quintuple star. I know that they exist, so why not have a Chapter based around one?

But it was really necessary to mention the same thing twice in the article?

 

In addition, instead of everyone just saying "they live like this for no reason, I wanted there to be a reason for the pyramids and the religion that eventually shapes the chapter to push them along the Mesoamerican path. Perhaps executed incorrectly?

As someone, who has knowledge of mesoamerican culture, I can't see aything like that in the article, outside of the names.

 

*rest*

This should be in the article.

[exetus]

But it was really necessary to mention the same thing twice in the article?

 

Maybe not, but I thought it was an important part of the origin and then when describing a planetary system, you tend to go into detail. Maybe I can remove it from that portion and simply refer to the radiation efffects.

 

As someone, who has knowledge of mesoamerican culture, I can't see aything like that in the article, outside of the names.

 

1. Starting with the name. the Legend of the Five Suns is one of the primary creation myths of the Aztecs; four prior earths all destroyed in a cataclysm in turn until the fifth is saved as the primayr god sacrifices himself by becoming the sun. I didn't want to go into the whole sacrificing all of my officers, but the parallels are there. In addition, it helps tie into the quintuple star system where three of the five stars are, essentially, destroyers and the other two bring life.

 

2. The Brethren (Companies) number 1 through 9 based upon their level of importance. This parallels the 9 Levels of Aztec Hell that must be travelled to get to Mictlan, the Paradise of the North and resting place of the dead. As such, the least important, most specialized and "easiest" of the companies is the assault company. All of the parallels here are a bit looser, but:

 

Note that, in each case, the Captains rank is determined by the Company level, but that does not mean there is a progression aside from that of specialist to all-around to Veteran; the Battle Companies are equal fighting companies and neither Tactical company is superior to the other based upon its equivalent level of hell.

 

1) cross a deep river—dogs were buried with their dead owners to guide them on this journey - Assault Company (Jump Packs cross boundaries that those on foot cannot)

2) pass between two mountains which were joined together - Devastator Company (Big Rocks, heavy weapons =P)

 

3) climb an obsidian mountain - Tactical Company (first step to becoming a complete marine, climbing from specialization to all-around)

4) pass through icy wind that cut like a knife - Tactical Company (Gain experience as a Tactical Marine)

 

Battle Companies and the tasks closer to the achievement of the Northern Paradise.

5) pass through a place where flags waved

6) be pierced by arrows

7) pass among wild beasts which ate human hearts

8) pass over a narrow path of stone

 

9) reach this level where the soul found rest - Veteran Company (They have completed the trials of the rank and file and are now the epitome of an Astartes

 

3. A parallel, but inverse, the Scarred represent the Aztec Shorn Ones. I also have "the Shorn" as my scouts, but novices rather than elites. Instead, the Scarred are my Shorn ones and, like the Aztec Shorn One warriors, the aprt of the terminators having never retreated parallels these warrior who also never retreated upon pain of immediate death, but such was their honor that they would not even think of doing such a thing.

 

4. The Sundering is a radical take on the sacrifice of people to appease the gods. In this case, I have changed it to represent a "coming of age" from Novice to Battle Brother. It retains the insanity of having a heart ripped out, but can take on a symbolic meaning since Astartes are designed with just such an occurrence (loss of a heart) in mind.

 

5 The Aztec referred to themselves as "the people of the sun." So, too, are the Nahazi.

 

 

I kinda felt it was heavy on parallels...

[Roma]

But it was really necessary to mention the same thing twice in the article?

 

Maybe not, but I thought it was an important part of the origin and then when describing a planetary system, you tend to go into detail. Maybe I can remove it from that portion and simply refer to the radiation efffects.

 

As someone, who has knowledge of mesoamerican culture, I can't see aything like that in the article, outside of the names.

 

1. Starting with the name. the Legend of the Five Suns is one of the primary creation myths of the Aztecs; four prior earths all destroyed in a cataclysm in turn until the fifth is saved as the primayr god sacrifices himself by becoming the sun. I didn't want to go into the whole sacrificing all of my officers, but the parallels are there. In addition, it helps tie into the quintuple star system where three of the five stars are, essentially, destroyers and the other two bring life.

 

2. The Brethren (Companies) number 1 through 9 based upon their level of importance. This parallels the 9 Levels of Aztec Hell that must be travelled to get to Mictlan, the Paradise of the North and resting place of the dead. As such, the least important, most specialized and "easiest" of the companies is the assault company. All of the parallels here are a bit looser, but:

 

Note that, in each case, the Captains rank is determined by the Company level, but that does not mean there is a progression aside from that of specialist to all-around to Veteran; the Battle Companies are equal fighting companies and neither Tactical company is superior to the other based upon its equivalent level of hell.

 

1) cross a deep river—dogs were buried with their dead owners to guide them on this journey - Assault Company (Jump Packs cross boundaries that those on foot cannot)

2) pass between two mountains which were joined together - Devastator Company (Big Rocks, heavy weapons =P)

 

3) climb an obsidian mountain - Tactical Company (first step to becoming a complete marine, climbing from specialization to all-around)

4) pass through icy wind that cut like a knife - Tactical Company (Gain experience as a Tactical Marine)

 

Battle Companies and the tasks closer to the achievement of the Northern Paradise.

5) pass through a place where flags waved

6) be pierced by arrows

7) pass among wild beasts which ate human hearts

8) pass over a narrow path of stone

 

9) reach this level where the soul found rest - Veteran Company (They have completed the trials of the rank and file and are now the epitome of an Astartes

 

3. A parallel, but inverse, the Scarred represent the Aztec Shorn Ones. I also have "the Shorn" as my scouts, but novices rather than elites. Instead, the Scarred are my Shorn ones and, like the Aztec Shorn One warriors, the aprt of the terminators having never retreated parallels these warrior who also never retreated upon pain of immediate death, but such was their honor that they would not even think of doing such a thing.

 

4. The Sundering is a radical take on the sacrifice of people to appease the gods. In this case, I have changed it to represent a "coming of age" from Novice to Battle Brother. It retains the insanity of having a heart ripped out, but can take on a symbolic meaning since Astartes are designed with just such an occurrence (loss of a heart) in mind.

 

5 The Aztec referred to themselves as "the people of the sun." So, too, are the Nahazi.

 

 

I kinda felt it was heavy on parallels...

 

 

check and mate.

[Ferrata]

Five Suns....I like the idea behind the name but it doesn't really work for an actual name. How does a Marine refer to himself? I am a Five Sun? I am a Blood Angel. I am an Imperial Fist. I am an Ultramarine. Maybe change it to "Warriors of the Five Suns", yes it is getting on to being a long name, but I think it works better.

 

Surely having your newest recuits be those in the frey (Assault Marines) means you are going to lose more of them. This isn't an issue, as it is a similar tack the Space Wolves take, but it is something that needs to be addressed.

 

I don't like the name Nahazi, mainly because I miss out the ah when I am reading it.

[Heru]

Five Suns....I like the idea behind the name but it doesn't really work for an actual name. How does a Marine refer to himself? I am a Five Sun? I am a Blood Angel. I am an Imperial Fist. I am an Ultramarine. Maybe change it to "Warriors of the Five Suns", yes it is getting on to being a long name, but I think it works better.

I think they would be more likely to state "I am of the Five Suns", it seems more clan/tribal that way.

 

Also admit that your name suggestion is just your underhanded attempt at getting "of" in there. :tu:

[Ferrata]

Also admit that your name suggestion is just your underhanded attempt at getting "of" in there

All the coolest names have of in :P

 

Surely it would be more fitting for the symbol to have 5 points :lol:

[exetus]

I thought of a five-pointed star, but I see those every day (USAF). Incidentally, there is a bit of tie-in with that as well. The Sun Stone that was pulled from the central square of Mexico City and is often referred to as the Aztec Calendar Stone or the Mexica Sun Stone was the starting point for the symbol. The four main points are referenced by the larger rays. While the Sun Stone has a second set of primary rays (NW, NE, SE, SW), I wanted mine to be slightly more ornate and thus included eight smaller rays instead. The circle that joins them is a slight reference to the concentric circles of stories that chart the myth of the Five Suns. Thus you have a sun. The V is the obvious reference to "five". =)

 

And I like the suggestion from Heru that they would not refer to themselves like the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists or White Scars. I would like to think that they refer to themselves as whatever their standing amongst the Chapter is; ie. I am Extoluatl or Kaluacax of the Five Sons. Something along those lines.

 

Surely having your newest recuits be those in the frey (Assault Marines) means you are going to lose more of them. This isn't an issue, as it is a similar tack the Space Wolves take, but it is something that needs to be addressed.

 

I was under the impression that in the new Codex: Space Marines, this was the now accepted practice as they flaunt the Tactical Marine as being the epitome of what it is to be a Space Marine since they can do everything? Did I get that wrong? It may have been from a discussion on another thread somewhere.

[Heru]

I was under the impression that in the new Codex: Space Marines, this was the now accepted practice as they flaunt the Tactical Marine as being the epitome of what it is to be a Space Marine since they can do everything? Did I get that wrong? It may have been from a discussion on another thread somewhere.

You aren't completely wrong. The progression is listed as:

Scout > Devastator > Assault > Tactical

[exetus]

Guess their impulsive aggressiveness works kind of in our favor then, akin to the Space Wolves as mentioned above by Ferrata.

 

I've also included the other info that NightrawenII suggested be added in, such as the why the company rearrangements, their thoughts about Imperial forces claiming the Emperor is a god and why they prefer jump packs to bikes.

[NightrawenII]

1. Starting with the name. the Legend of the Five Suns is one of the primary creation myths of the Aztecs; four prior earths all destroyed in a cataclysm in turn until the fifth is saved as the primayr god sacrifices himself by becoming the sun. I didn't want to go into the whole sacrificing all of my officers, but the parallels are there. In addition, it helps tie into the quintuple star system where three of the five stars are, essentially, destroyers and the other two bring life.

There is no parallel at all, not in regards to your officers.

First, the reason of the destruction was every time different, the "people" in the 'first sun' were eaten by god Tezcatlipoca for example. Second, you got the "five sun" wrong. Nanahuatzin was not primary god, he was little and insignificant god and through his "sacrifice" was created the sun.

The sacrifice - of gods and then humans - is needed to keep the sun moving, but nevertheless even this "five sun" is destined to end. At the end of each circle of 52 years and cosidering the planet IS destroyed, the parallel is very thin here.

 

2.

*snip*

Really? Man, you should look up what is parallel and what is vivid imagination. And social status in Aztec society was determined by the individual's merits in the war, the number of captured enemies to be precise.

 

3. A parallel, but inverse, the Scarred represent the Aztec Shorn Ones. I also have "the Shorn" as my scouts, but novices rather than elites. Instead, the Scarred are my Shorn ones and, like the Aztec Shorn One warriors, the aprt of the terminators having never retreated parallels these warrior who also never retreated upon pain of immediate death, but such was their honor that they would not even think of doing such a thing.

Ah, the "Cuauchic"... but they had sworn not to retreat, a little difference.

 

Second, why Scarred ones? Jaguars or Eagles weren't enough?

 

4. The Sundering is a radical take on the sacrifice of people to appease the gods. In this case, I have changed it to represent a "coming of age" from Novice to Battle Brother. It retains the insanity of having a heart ripped out, but can take on a symbolic meaning since Astartes are designed with just such an occurrence (loss of a heart) in mind.

Irrelevant, the "coming to age" was connected with leaving the calmecac/telpochcalli, in the case of telpochcalli in 22 years of age, and you have forgotten the axe.

[exetus]

I'll accede to a lot of this stuff as circumstantial, but I will also say that my intent isn't to completely rip off of Aztec culture, but to use it as an inspiration and then adapt it to my own ends. If I were to just copy it, word for word, deed by deed, it would be just that... a copy. 40k is filled with wrote bastardization and I didn't want to do that. I'd rather take something as an inspiration and then let my imagination go wherever it wants to. In this case, the parallels are there as inspiration for a make-believe Chapter in a make-believe galaxy on a make-believe planet. =)

 

There is no parallel at all, not in regards to your officers.

First, the reason of the destruction was every time different, the "people" in the 'first sun' were eaten by god Tezcatlipoca for example. Second, you got the "five sun" wrong. Nanahuatzin was not primary god, he was little and insignificant god and through his "sacrifice" was created the sun.

The sacrifice - of gods and then humans - is needed to keep the sun moving, but nevertheless even this "five sun" is destined to end. At the end of each circle of 52 years and cosidering the planet IS destroyed, the parallel is very thin here.

 

Five Suns - Five remaining leaders. It's VERY thin, but it's still there. And the people of the first sun were actually ruled by Chalchiuhtlicue, the water goddess, and ended in a cataclysmic flood in which some of the people were saved by becoming fish. Tezcatlipoca is the second sun. And you're right, Nanahuatiz isn't a primary god, in fact he's a minor god who ends up trumping a flashier one by his humble sacrifice.

 

Really? Man, you should look up what is parallel and what is vivid imagination. And social status in Aztec society was determined by the individual's merits in the war, the number of captured enemies to be precise.

 

Once again, this isn't designed as a cultural standing. It's taking a myth about death and the hell/trials that one must undergo to reach paradise and adapting it to fit the Chapter. You asked why the organization was the way it was. Well there is a step-by-step process to get to the Northern Paradise that traverses Nine Hells/paradises, is there not? You start and you finish and at the end, you reach your goal. You start as a novice, you go through the trials of being a Space Marine, you reach the epitome of that as a Veteran and then you're ready to enter paradise/the pantheon of heroes as you've completed all the required steps.

 

Second, why Scarred ones? Jaguars or Eagles weren't enough?

 

Descended of White Scars, this helps tie them into their parent Chapter. Additionally, there are no Jaguars/Eagles on Texolocan XI and that's already been done anyhow.

 

Irrelevant, the "coming to age" was connected with leaving the calmecac/telpochcalli, in the case of telpochcalli in 22 years of age, and you have forgotten the axe.

 

I was under the impression that the sacrifice had nothing at all to do with coming of age and was instead based around religious, political or whatever means amongst mesoamaerican cultures. I just wanted it to be something that was drastic and barbarian that was once against ADAPTED to fit in with the chapter.

[NightrawenII]

I'll accede to a lot of this stuff as circumstantial, but I will also say that my intent isn't to completely rip off of Aztec culture, but to use it as an inspiration and then adapt it to my own ends. If I were to just copy it, word for word, deed by deed, it would be just that... a copy. 40k is filled with wrote bastardization and I didn't want to do that. I'd rather take something as an inspiration and then let my imagination go wherever it wants to. In this case, the parallels are there as inspiration for a make-believe Chapter in a make-believe galaxy on a make-believe planet. =)

The problem is that you interpretation/inspiration is rather - How to say it in politically correct way? - cosmetic. I'm missing the most characterful trait(s) of Aztecs from this chapter; their pessimistic view of life, the aspect of duality, dedication to war and the sacrifice. In this way, the hateful attitude of theirs is coming out of nowhere.

 

Five Suns - Five remaining leaders. It's VERY thin, but it's still there.

I have five fingers on each hand, are they related to this myth too? Basically, the only connection is the number five, and in all honesty it's missing out the point of this myth.

 

And the people of the first sun were actually ruled by Chalchiuhtlicue, the water goddess, and ended in a cataclysmic flood in which some of the people were saved by becoming fish. Tezcatlipoca is the second sun.

My source disagrees, but anyway...

 

Once again, this isn't designed as a cultural standing. It's taking a myth about death and the hell/trials that one must undergo to reach paradise and adapting it to fit the Chapter. You asked why the organization was the way it was. Well there is a step-by-step process to get to the Northern Paradise that traverses Nine Hells/paradises, is there not? You start and you finish and at the end, you reach your goal. You start as a novice, you go through the trials of being a Space Marine, you reach the epitome of that as a Veteran and then you're ready to enter paradise/the pantheon of heroes as you've completed all the required steps.

Hmm and here lies a problem. There is only 6(7) stages of space marine progress and as I said above, the parallel between the Nine Hells is just cosmetical - in fact most of the Chapters practise the same ordeal. You have only changed the course (in illogical way).

[exetus]

Sorry that it took me a while to respond. I've been lurking on the board via my phone while slaving away at work. Ok, before I really go a lot farther (and I do appreciate your inputs NightrawenII, even if i fight many of your suggestions) I want to address this:

 

The problem is that you interpretation/inspiration is rather - How to say it in politically correct way? - cosmetic.

 

GW does a tremendous job of cosmetics, in my personal opinion. Sure they take a lot, but it often comes across as even less original than simply taking an idea and running off on another tangent with it. Perhaps the best example of this would be the Bretonnians. If there was ever a more direct cop-off of the Legend of King Arthur and his knights, that is it. The detail on the White Scars as Mongols is cursory other than pictures and a brief touching on their customs and traditions. Ultramarines get the Greco-Roman treatment and then some. They attempted something along the lines of Native Americans for the Dark Angels, but that apparently didn't catch. Same goes for most of the Legions unless you read a Horus Heresy book and get a novel full of "in your face" about them. So my intent isn't to totally offend by taking some of the heritage and twisting it to fit where I want in the 40k galaxy, but it IS to make it more mine instead of, "these guys are Aztec clones!"

 

If it gives me an ability to have Aztec-pattern chainswords and deviate slightly from the Codex while largely remaining the same structure, I don't think that's too unreasonable.

 

Hmm and here lies a problem. There is only 6(7) stages of space marine progress and as I said above, the parallel between the Nine Hells is just cosmetical - in fact most of the Chapters practise the same ordeal. You have only changed the course (in illogical way).

 

Actually, I specifically mention in my explanation that the 9 Hells are only loosely associated. I never give 9 levels of Space Marine development, I just loosely ties the 9 Hells to nine companies, but clearly state that even amongst the battle companies, there is no ranking (5 is not better than 8, it just IS). Is this cosmetic? Yes. Does it still fit within their system of belief? Sure, why not? All they essentially did was pull a big switcheroo on who got what number for the company, lol. As for it being illogical, there isn't much logic in 40k, but the Space Wolves feel the same way... Blood Claws are the youngest of their Marines, then Grey Hunters and then Long Fangs. All I did was change Assault Squads and Devestator squads in their Marine progression and instead of saying they were #9, they are instead #1... first step. In most rating systems, 1 is low and the high is a number greater than 1. Sure, in a race 1st is best (usually), but Glen Livet at 25yrs is better than the Glen Livet that is mass produced every year for immediate consumption. I dunno... anyhow, I've made a few changes in their belief system that hints a little more at the sacrifice part (I do agree with that... but this is where their personal sacrifice is to the Imperium and ties them into their Journey to Chapter immortality).

 

I'm reviewing the rest to see if I'll change more of it.

 

Does any of this make sense or am I just rambling?

[NightrawenII]

GW does a tremendous job of cosmetics, in my personal opinion. Sure they take a lot, but it often comes across as even less original than simply taking an idea and running off on another tangent with it. Perhaps the best example of this would be the Bretonnians. If there was ever a more direct cop-off of the Legend of King Arthur and his knights, that is it. The detail on the White Scars as Mongols is cursory other than pictures and a brief touching on their customs and traditions. Ultramarines get the Greco-Roman treatment and then some. They attempted something along the lines of Native Americans for the Dark Angels, but that apparently didn't catch. Same goes for most of the Legions unless you read a Horus Heresy book and get a novel full of "in your face" about them. So my intent isn't to totally offend by taking some of the heritage and twisting it to fit where I want in the 40k galaxy, but it IS to make it more mine instead of, "these guys are Aztec clones!"

I get it, I'm against overtheming too, but on the other hand, I don't think that just giving marines fancy swords make them samurai-themed Chapter, so to speak.

The cosmetic, I'm talking here are the (blatantly) visible signs of theme; the above mentioned katanas, the entire IA: White Scars, wolf-anything, blood-anything et cetera et cetera...

In-my-not-so-humble-opinion, the theme in question doesn't require such in-face-references, the only required touch is the core feeling. You can make samurai-themed Chapter without fancy-swords and/or japanese names/titles. That's why I said that their hateful attitude is out of place for Aztec themed Chapter.

 

As for it being illogical, there isn't much logic in 40k, but the Space Wolves feel the same way... Blood Claws are the youngest of their Marines, then Grey Hunters and then Long Fangs. All I did was change Assault Squads and Devestator squads in their Marine progression and instead of saying they were #9, they are instead #1... first step. In most rating systems, 1 is low and the high is a number greater than 1. Sure, in a race 1st is best (usually), but Glen Livet at 25yrs is better than the Glen Livet that is mass produced every year for immediate consumption.

Eh, I should clarify the illogical part of my reply.

It was aimed at the wild card in your organisation, the Tenth Company. Not only, the existence of ten companies somewhat breaks the association with nine hells, the marine starts its journey in 10th Company and then he moves into 1st Company, then to 2nd Company.... until he reaches the 9th "Elite" Company, which is, in fact, one step below the Company of Noobs, in numerical sense. :lol:

[exetus]

Got it on the illogical numbering and you're right. I guess they stray a little farther away from the codex in that the Scout company won't be numbered at all. They'll simply be referred to as the Scout company and exist outside of the hierarchy of the battle companies since they have yet to undergo the Sundering and are not yet Extoluatl. Guess tonight I'll slap together the Chapter Organization chart I've been meaning to put together.

 

As to the hate thing, I'll see what i can do about tying it in a little better and maybe morphing it into something that is a bit more Aztec/Maya mainstream.

[exetus]

Ok, changes that I have made are in red. I have also added the Chapter Organization Chart, but it may not be it's final incarnation. I'm tyring to figure out if I should have a tree or something along those lines that represents the branches of the Extoluatl. Still having a hard time bringing in the Aztec and Mayan themes of light vs. dark, although I think I have added a bit more to tie into personal sacrifice of each Marine. Anyhow, still a work in progress.