Who has the best tactical marines?

[Seraph1]

All:

 

Long time reader, first time post-er

 

I am looking at building out my Space Marines, having been a bug and IG player for years and I would like advise on the chapter with the best tactical squads. Here are my presumptions:

 

Grey Wolves are the best of the Space Marines. For one point more than a vanilla marine they get an extra attack (bolt pistol and CCW) and countercharge. They can also take 2 special weapons.

 

Blood Angels Tactical squads are only slightly better than vanilla marines if they get fuirious charge. I see you can give them FNP with a character but that increase the cost by 50 points. I suppose there fast transports are good, but I don't think tactical marines want to get into close combat. Has anyone experienced a Blood Angels army that uses Tactical Marines more than Assault Marines?

 

I can't find any special characters in the vanilla marines they make tactical squads worth while. I suppose Pedro can bump up your vanguard and Vulkan can buff your flamers and Multi-melta but is that really worth it? Is the White Scars Character valuable?

 

Dark Angels are worthless.

 

There is a lot of Space Wolves players in my area, so I would love to go Space Marines with something different. But if I want a lot of tactical marines do I have another option?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Mysticaria]

Sicarius, Khan, Vulkan and Calgar all do cool things to tactical squads.

 

Can those other books take a squad with Multimelta, Plasmagun, Combiplasma in a rhino... and give them "tank hunters" special rule? Can they take multimelta, meltagun, combimelta in a drop pod... and make them all twin linked? Can they give all their tactical squads ld10, Stubborn, outflank, fleet, or the ability to pass or fail any leadership test they choose?

 

There are things you can do with vanilla marines if you look for the possibilities. However, the thing with tactical marines is that it isn't the tactical squad itself that is amazing. Its all the other stuff you get to take. Obviously if you looked at everything in a vacuum then there are other options. But that's now how it's done. You have to look at the entire codex.

 

 

-Myst

[Something Wycked]

As usual, Myst has it right on the button.

 

Taken in a vacuum, Grey Hunters are the best "Tactical" Marines out there.

 

However.

 

Space Wolves do not get all of the nifty toys that Codex: Space Marines has access to (much like Codex: Space Marine doesn't have all of the nifty toys that Space Wolves get.)

 

The bonus to starting out with Tactical Marines as the core of your force is that you can bounce between the different codices pretty easily, try them out, see how they work for you and which one you like better.

 

We might be able to help you more if we knew more about how you'd like to play. It is usually said that Tactical Marines are best suited for taking and holding the midfield. Is that how you plan to play? Is the rest of your army going to be assault or shooting focused? Balanced between the two?

[Jehoel]

Gotta step up and defend the DA here. lol

 

Yes, our tactical marines are a bit underwhelming with our 4 ed codex, but the ability to take Terminators or bikes as troops is not to be discounted.

 

I enjoy the ability to take a Deathwing terminator force and drop it on objectives (they count as troops with Beliel in the force). With the Ravenwing bikes swirling around (with Sammial to make them troops too), things get tough to predict.

[Project.2501]

Can a Grey Hunter squad take out anything from over 24" away on their own?

 

Is a BA Tac squad still 'fast and furious' without a higher point transport and/or Red Thirst and/or a Sang priest?

 

Are DA's only shortcomming a codex that's not been updated yet?

 

 

It's all about tradoffs. Codex: Space Marines offers the most versatility at the cheapest points cost and is therefore the 'best bang for the buck' IMO.

[Panda_]

If you talk about Tacticals, you shouldn't include Grey Hunters as they are really different without the HW.

 

Don't forget about Chaos Space Marines. They are a Grey Hunters with a pimped Leadership (1 special + 1 special/heavy), they also have "Sergeants" (which are called "Aspiring Champion").

 

There is also Grey Knights Strike Squad (Storm bolters, EW) and psychics.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Can a Grey Hunter squad take out anything from over 24" away on their own?

 

Is a BA Tac squad still 'fast and furious' without a higher point transport and/or Red Thirst and/or a Sang priest?

 

Are DA's only shortcomming a codex that's not been updated yet?

 

 

It's all about tradoffs. Codex: Space Marines offers the most versatility at the cheapest points cost and is therefore the 'best bang for the buck' IMO.

 

And lo' did CJJ doth proclaim "No!"

 

Grey Hunters are the best for what they do; you should not be relying on a TacEq to take out threats over 24" away - yes with a C:SM Tac Squad you have a chance of this, but anyone building their battleplan around this is a rubber duckie short of a proper bath.

[Project.2501]

Can a Grey Hunter squad take out anything from over 24" away on their own?

 

Is a BA Tac squad still 'fast and furious' without a higher point transport and/or Red Thirst and/or a Sang priest?

 

Are DA's only shortcomming a codex that's not been updated yet?

 

 

It's all about tradoffs. Codex: Space Marines offers the most versatility at the cheapest points cost and is therefore the 'best bang for the buck' IMO.

 

And lo' did CJJ doth proclaim "No!"

 

Grey Hunters are the best for what they do; you should not be relying on a TacEq to take out threats over 24" away - yes with a C:SM Tac Squad you have a chance of this, but anyone building their battleplan around this is a rubber duckie short of a proper bath.

 

I agree that solely using C:SM Tac squads' heavy weapons for all your AT is a bit restricting, but I wouldn't say anyone doing so is "A rubber duckie short of a proper bath."

[JamesI]

Don't underestimate the usefulness of Combat Tactics for a Tactical Squad. Its a nice rule, lacking for BA, DA, SW

[thade]

Don't underestimate the usefulness of Combat Tactics for a Tactical Squad. Its a nice rule, lacking for BA, DA, SW

 

I'm with JamesI here; the one thing I miss the most about the vanilla dex is Combat Tactics.

[DarkGuard]

I hope I'm not coming across the wrong way, but the big problem with this thread, is that there are only three Tactical squads in the Space Marine Codices. Grey Hunters, Grey Knight Strike squads, Chaos Space Marine squads and Black Templar Crusader squads are not Tactical squads. To play them as such is to invite defeat. They are different squads with their own, unique play style, and you should play them to that style.

 

So, to the three Tactical squads. Blood Angel Tactical squads seem a little glamorous. I mean, the ability to get Furious Charge and Fearless for no extra points! And with a Sang Priest around you can make them FnP as well! Well, a Sang Priest costs at least 50pts and prevents them sitting in a Rhino or taking special and heavy weapons is joining them. And Red Thirst gives them two undesirable abilities. Fearless is a double edged sword, and Ld9 with ATSKNF is normally good enough. And Furious Charge on your supporting, mid-range shooty unit? Again, not amazing.

 

Then we have Dark Angels. Contrary to popular belief, I'm going to say their not useless. Why? Because at 5 men you can give them a special weapon. This is nothing the other squads can do. In the long run, that benefit may not be, and isn't enough, but it's something useful they can do that the other squads cannot.

 

So, Space Marine Tactical squads. Like Blood Angels and Dark Angels, they have Ld9 and ATSKNF. No chance of Furious Charge and Fearless, but they don't need or want it. All you have to do is pick up the free weapon choices and stick them in a Rhino and they'll do well. As JamesI has said Combat Tactics is a fantastic rule and constantly underrated by so many people. The ability to fall back out of charge range, breaking pinning, fall out of combat is just fantastic. Even just pulling yourself out of an undesirable situation is good. And if your opponent doesn't let you use it then that's still good, you're effecting the way he plays then! And as Myst has said, it lets you use some fantastic Chapter Tactics, my favourite being Vulkan's, letting me have a squad with a combi-flamer, flamer, MM and Rhino for 215pts. All those upgrades are twin-linked, so tanks will die, and especially if I can bunch my opponent up with my tank, those two twin-linked flamer shots and a load of bolt fire will even tear apart Marine squads.

 

 

And if we want to include the other squads, I'll say a few words. Grey Hunters are only Ld8 and therefore prone to running away. They are also not Tactical. They can only take two specials, and no heavies, so often they are short-ranged fighters with little to no flexibility, apart from being decent in combat. Crusader squads are mainly assault based, although being able to take the old las plas squads isn't bad. Although it is bad unless you take a Marshall, you don't want target priority checks on Ld7. Chaos Space Marine squads are similar to Tactical squads, and can even take a heavy weapons, or loads of guys. However, they don't have ATSKNF, so despite being Ld9-10, if you force them to run when under half strength they're not stopping. Finally, GKSS are more expensive than Tactical squads, especially with upgraded force weapons and storm bolters. They are also poor at long-range, and lack low AP weapons. However, they are Tactical, but no Tactical squads.

[Captain Idaho]

Said it before in a different thread, but if/when Space Marines get more appropriately priced Devastators in their next Codex, then Tactical Marines will become much more valuable for their extra firepower they bring to supplement the Devastators own firepower. Since Blood Angels don't take Devastators they won't get the same benefits we get from Tacticals and their heavy weapons.

 

But right now I believe Grey Hunters are leading the way. For now!