Massy Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Hey guys, Last week I got the Grey knights codex, while is was reading the special rules I noted that the "true grid" rule was gone. True grid in the old rules gave the Grey knights the option the use the stormbolters a one handed weapon in close combat, thus granting the Grey knights an extra attack if equiped with another onehanded close combat weapon. So i grabbed the big black book and looked up the rules for extra attack in close combat, and it states that you get an extra attack for wielding two one handed close combat weapons. The Grey knights storm bolters are one handed weapons by fluff, but I could not find any rules in the Grey knights codex or the BBB that reflect this. So my question is, are greyknights armed with a forcesword and a stormbolter stuck on 1 attack (2 on the charge) ? Or is there some rule I missed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 sadly my friend, the rule is gone. no more storm bolters in CC :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2777424 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I take it you meant "True Grit"? Yup, GW decided to downgrade the Grey Knights actual assault skill in favour of different sparkly weapons and a focus on psychic augmentation instead. Surprisingly I wouldn't say it's put too many people off them though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2777436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 The grid...Tron? :tu: Yep it's gone, simple as that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2777457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberschveinen Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Downgrade assault skill? You have universal Power Weapons, which kick the crap out of the old Nemesis. As much as I liked the idea of True Grit and the way NFWs would get more powerful to represent the psychic might of the wielder, the new army is monstrously more powerful in every single way. I can't think of a single element of the new Grey Knights that is less able than the old. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2778109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The named loss of True Grit loses an attack from every GK statline. I can think of a couple other stat reductions that are certainly not "monstrously more powerful in every single way." :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2778112 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Yup, GW decided to downgrade the Grey Knights actual assault skill in favour of different sparkly weapons and a focus on psychic augmentation instead. Surprisingly I wouldn't say it's put too many people off them though... I'm one of those people. Power weapons are nice and all, but I can't tell you how much I miss my WS5, S6, and consistent 2 attacks. Sure, we're better against MEQs and TEQs now, particularly on the charge, but we're considerably worse against hordes or high-toughness models with inv. saves. I like the new codex just fine, and I'm not going to sit here and whine about it, but I certainly do miss the old stat bar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2778119 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Dylan Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Downgrade assault skill? You have universal Power Weapons, which kick the crap out of the old Nemesis. As much as I liked the idea of True Grit and the way NFWs would get more powerful to represent the psychic might of the wielder, the new army is monstrously more powerful in every single way. I can't think of a single element of the new Grey Knights that is less able than the old. Purifiers and paladins aside I would take the close combat abilities of the old terminators and the old grey knight squad to their current equivalents, I really miss having weapon skill five. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2778221 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Downgrade assault skill? You have universal Power Weapons, which kick the crap out of the old Nemesis. As much as I liked the idea of True Grit and the way NFWs would get more powerful to represent the psychic might of the wielder, the new army is monstrously more powerful in every single way. I can't think of a single element of the new Grey Knights that is less able than the old. You've misinterpreted my message. Certain aspects of the model profile are representative of a models pure fighting skill. The higher WS for example use to represent how a Grey Knights was superior to your average marine in assault regardless of his weaponry and psychic might. And while it's reliant on having a certain type of weapon, True-Grit was also relevant to the Grey Knights' skill-set in close-combat too. Neither of these remain and can only be at best 'replaced' by more weaponry (Falchions) rather than an abilities based on personal skill. Nothing in this book is now representative of each Grey Knight's ability to physically dish out the pain unaided more than a normal marine. This is because (expectedly) GW no longer wish to portray them in such a light. I don't expect many will understand why this is an issue of annoyance amongst a minority of the older, loyal GK players - particularly if you don't fit that bill. As for your last remark, our ability 'to hit' in assault has been somewhat neutered in this codex. Imo, master-crafting, which isn't available to all models, isn't a better replacement at all compared the the ability to hit most troop choices on a 3+ and deny other WS5 models the ability to do the same. Any other ability to boost a squad's ability to-hit is severely limited to certain builds (attaching Brother-Champions, Draigowing, etc) or is limited to certain targets (i.e. Preferred Enemy: Daemons). Before I receive comments about how further improvements would be 'unbalanced' and 'unfair', note that like Aidoneus, I'm not whining about about the issue - only stating the notable differences of the then-and-now. Besides, crass accusations of whining aren't exactly constructive so let's keep away from them... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2778596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnowThyEnemy Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Definately agree Oiad. WS5 S6 was very fun and fitting. Its going to take some getting used to me thinks. New 40K tournament starts soon, I'm hoping my knights are up to the task. Only got 2 games in with them before the fantasy tourny started. Fingers crossed :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2778606 Share on other sites More sharing options...
worloch Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Don't forget that in the old Codex our particular version of True Grit only functioned when we were not charging. So on a turn you charged you got 1 + 1 for charging and on other turns you got 1 + 1 for True Grit. Kept GK's from becoming overwhelming in an assault, but still dangerous. Falchions just don't cut it and we all miss the Ws 5. I will always remember True Grit w/ a Storm Bolter fondly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2778654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 GKS should be WS5 even in the new Codex. You can keep the +1A and S4, but would one really consider them to be OP if they had their WS bumped back up? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2779167 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedalus Templarius Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Paladins are WS5 :P I miss the automatic S6 as well, but I can live with it, the new codex just adds so much more. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/230989-storm-bolters/#findComment-2779601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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