Striker Squad- Psilencer Vs Storm Bolter

[Nian]

Help! I am currently working on some conversions of all my old metal Grey Knight PA's for use as Striker Squads and am about to put

four of them under the saw and mod them to have psilencers.

The only question is, how well does a Psilencer do Vs a Storm Bolter and how bad are the numbers if you were going against another

troop that is going in for the kill while your holding an objective?

 

Basically, can someone please give me a bit of mathhammering as I don't know the formulas to work it out myself.

 

How would a 10 man Striker Squad with 2x Psilencers and no other upgrades do Vs another full but basic upgrades squad of equal cost space marines? Oh and daemons?

 

 

Are Psilencers always worthless is the question?

[JasoX]

Are Psilencers always worthless is the question?

 

Yes, they are worthless. Take Psycannons.

[DarkGuard]

Are Psilencers always worthless is the question?

 

Yes, they are worthless. Take Psycannons.

 

Oh, I'm not too sure. At 30" range (6" move and 24" range), the amount of shots that unit can put it will devastate enemy infantry, especially with S5 storm bolters. You've got 16 S5 shots, and 12 S4 shots, GEQ in particular aren't going to like it.

 

Now am I saying the psilencer is better than the psycannon or the incinerator? No, I'm not. What I am saying is that no piece of equipment is worthless, or should be considered worthless. Such thinking if detrimental to list building in general. The psilencer has its uses. Unfortunately, it's role is covered by other weapons and units, while weapon options like psycannons can help more with versatility.

[Darkmagi]

one thing to remember is that the psilencer is a heavy weapon, there's no assault mode so you cant move and fire. i think thats the biggest draw back to that weapon

[Chengar Qordath]

Oh, I'm not too sure. At 30" range (6" move and 24" range), the amount of shots that unit can put it will devastate enemy infantry, especially with S5 storm bolters. You've got 16 S5 shots, and 12 S4 shots, GEQ in particular aren't going to like it.

 

Now am I saying the psilencer is better than the psycannon or the incinerator? No, I'm not. What I am saying is that no piece of equipment is worthless, or should be considered worthless. Such thinking if detrimental to list building in general. The psilencer has its uses. Unfortunately, it's role is covered by other weapons and units, while weapon options like psycannons can help more with versatility.

You'd only get that 6" move if it's on a Terminator though, and the poster is specifically asking about power-armor psilencers. Not being able to fire PA psilencers on the move is definitely something a weakness.

 

The other problem with psilencers is, even against Guard, they're inferior to a psycanon:

 

Psilencer: 6 shots at BS 4 = 4 hits, wounding on a 3+ = 2.66 wounds vs 5+ armor save = 1.77 unsaved wounds

Psycannon: 4 shots at BS 4 = 2.66 hits, wounding on a 2+ = 2.22 wounds, no armor saves, 2.22 unsaved wound

[Gentlemanloser]

That.

 

Psilencer, while brilliant in fluff, are garbage in game.

 

IMHO, the Psilencer would have been a beeter fit to the army by making it 36"+ in range, 1 shot, and having the Lance rule.

 

There's the reason to take Purgation Squads right there. ^_^

[shan vener]

stop. math hammer time :lol: well here i go again

 

okay you asked about that example squad fighting an equal costed marine squad

well you got it now

 

GKSS 1

10 knights, 8 storm bolters, 2 psilencers

 

GKSS 2

10 knights, no upgrades

 

TARGET SQUAD

10 space marines, no upgrades

 

GKSS 1 fires

16 storm bolter shots

11 hit, 5 wounds

12 psilencers shots

8 hit, 4 wound

9 wounds, 3 marines fail armor save and die

 

GKSS 2 fires

20 storm bolter shots

14 hits, 7 wounds, 2 marines fail armor save and die

 

see! what people don't realise is that unless your firing on a unoit with a 5+ save or worse then the greater amount of shots makes up for it. and besides if they do have a save of 5+ or worse how many do you honestly expect to make it?

[nurglez]

yes, but that ignores the fact that you have to stay still to shoot the psilancer, meaning you only have an effective threat range of 24 inches, and if you do move you shoot like 8 strikes.

 

The only psilancer I would consider is the gatling one, because it makes the dreadknight shoot like 6 terminators (with worse ap), but I would only buy it if I had 35 points to spare and nothing decent to spend it on.

[shan vener]

i can't beleive i never noticed that the psilencer was a heavy weapon :lol:

[BrotherWasted]

Are Psilencers always worthless is the question?

 

Yes, they are worthless. Take Psycannons.

 

Oh, I'm not too sure. At 30" range (6" move and 24" range), the amount of shots that unit can put it will devastate enemy infantry, especially with S5 storm bolters. You've got 16 S5 shots, and 12 S4 shots, GEQ in particular aren't going to like it.

 

Now am I saying the psilencer is better than the psycannon or the incinerator? No, I'm not. What I am saying is that no piece of equipment is worthless, or should be considered worthless. Such thinking if detrimental to list building in general. The psilencer has its uses. Unfortunately, it's role is covered by other weapons and units, while weapon options like psycannons can help more with versatility.

 

 

Which therefore means the Psilencer is useless. It has no practical use when superior options are readily available.

 

AP- shots never make up for guaranteed kills, especially when they cannot be fired on the move.

[Chengar Qordath]

Which therefore means the Psilencer is useless. It has no practical use when superior options are readily available.

 

AP- shots never make up for guaranteed kills, especially when they cannot be fired on the move.

Quite; the only time a psilencer is remotely worth considering is against lists with lots of high-toughness Daemons.

 

When it comes to mathhammer, a psycannon is better against just about any type of infantry in the game; the higher strength is a real boon, and rending can be a nice bonus, plust PA models can shoot them on the move and they make nicely potent anti-vehicle weapons. Pretty much the only enemy a psilencer is worth taking against is if it's actually shooting at Daemons, and even then they're not that impressive and the psycannon's versatility makes up for it.

 

Psilencer

GEQ: 6 shots at BS 4 = 4 hits, wounding on a 3+ = 2.66 wounds vs 5+ armor save = 1.77 unsaved wounds

MEQ: 6 shots at BS 4 = 4 hits, wounding on a 4+ = 2 wounds vs 3+ armor save = 0.66 unsaved wounds

 

Psycannon

GEQ: 4 shots at BS 4 = 2.66 hits, wounding on a 2+ = 2.22 wounds, no armor saves, 2.22 unsaved wound (also, a psycannon inflicts Instant Death on GEQ)

MEQ: 4 shots at BS 4 = 2.66 hits, wounding on a 2+ = 1.78 wounds + .44 rending wounds, 3+ armor save, 1.03 unsaved wounds

[Something Wycked]

And all of the math hammer shown doesn't take into account vehicles, either. Not only are Psycannons superior against infantry, Psilencers can only hurt AV10 unreliably, while Psycannons can reliably hurt vehicles of almost any armor value.

[Nian]

I never questioned wether the Psilencer was better than a Psycannon. Its quite well documented that the Psycannon is superior in every way.

The thing is however, that the Psycannon costs 10 points and the Psilencer is a free side-grade. Essentially for a basic 10 man GK SS you can

keep it at stock or replace for the same cost the storm bolter and NFS with the Psilencer.

 

It looks like the math says that in a bunkered down situation like an objective holding, the Psilencer is superior to a Storm Bolter. Correct?

 

I am looking at every possible point saving, the Psilencer is free so therefore the evaluation is wether its a valid and functional upgrade.

[BrotherWasted]

It is not.

[Chengar Qordath]

I would have to agree; there are a lot of better ways to save points than dropping psycannons down psilencers.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

The psilencer is not free, it costs you a Nemesis force weapon.

 

Irrespective of that, Grey Knights are expensive troops, and as a result there's no space for dead wood. Paying 10-20 points arms your squad with a weapon that can lay down fire, chew up light and heavy armour and act as a threat to anything.

 

Psilencers give you more storm bolter equivalent fire in an army overflowing with storm bolter fire.

 

Conclusion, even if free it still costs too much.

[Nian]

I would have to agree; there are a lot of better ways to save points than dropping psycannons down psilencers.

 

 

Forget the Psycannon, the Psycannon costs points to get, the Psilencer is free. Imagine a universe without Psycannons.... Now if a Psilencer worth taking over the Storm Bolter and NFW?

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I would have to agree; there are a lot of better ways to save points than dropping psycannons down psilencers.

 

 

Forget the Psycannon, the Psycannon costs points to get, the Psilencer is free. Imagine a universe without Psycannons.... Now if a Psilencer worth taking over the Storm Bolter and NFW?

 

No, keep the storm bolter.

[Gentlemanloser]

Forget the Psycannon, the Psycannon costs points to get, the Psilencer is free. Imagine a universe without Psycannons.... Now if a Psilencer worth taking over the Storm Bolter and NFW?

 

An additional No.

 

Especially when the Psilencer can't take advantage of the Psybolt Ammo the Squad has, while the SB/NFW combo would.

[Chengar Qordath]

Seconded; psilencers are useless unless the unit remains static, and static GK are wasting several of their strengths.

[Nian]

Forget the Psycannon, the Psycannon costs points to get, the Psilencer is free. Imagine a universe without Psycannons.... Now if a Psilencer worth taking over the Storm Bolter and NFW?

 

An additional No.

 

Especially when the Psilencer can't take advantage of the Psybolt Ammo the Squad has, while the SB/NFW combo would.

 

 

Psybolts cost points :)

[Chengar Qordath]

Forget the Psycannon, the Psycannon costs points to get, the Psilencer is free. Imagine a universe without Psycannons.... Now if a Psilencer worth taking over the Storm Bolter and NFW?

 

An additional No.

 

Especially when the Psilencer can't take advantage of the Psybolt Ammo the Squad has, while the SB/NFW combo would.

 

 

Psybolts cost points :)

Psybolts are worth the points they cost.

[JasoX]

I would have to agree; there are a lot of better ways to save points than dropping psycannons down psilencers.

 

 

Forget the Psycannon, the Psycannon costs points to get, the Psilencer is free. Imagine a universe without Psycannons.... Now if a Psilencer worth taking over the Storm Bolter and NFW?

 

No, keep the storm bolter.

 

Second that. you really dont want to trade sb and nfw to get psilencer

[BrotherWasted]

Forget the Psycannon, the Psycannon costs points to get, the Psilencer is free. Imagine a universe without Psycannons.... Now if a Psilencer worth taking over the Storm Bolter and NFW?

 

An additional No.

 

Especially when the Psilencer can't take advantage of the Psybolt Ammo the Squad has, while the SB/NFW combo would.

 

 

Psybolts cost points :)

 

Psybolts cost 2 points per model and let your basic troopers penetrate rear tank armor.

[number6]

I must say I am impressed at Nian's persistence! :) True, very few options in any codex are literally without any worth at all.

 

However, I also thoroughly agree with the complete :) rating given it by the forum. The psilencer does have some very small utility. Namely: are you fighting daemons? :nuke: 'Cause if you're not, the mobile firepower and assault capability of GKs is far more useful. And even deadly! Yes, the psilencer has a greater range than the psycannon. But it's a Heavy weapon, meaning you can't move and shoot! yes, the psilencer lays down a lot of respectable anti-infantry firepower. But are stormbolters really so inferior that you want to give up the NFW as well to get a few extra shots? As noted by others, the GKs already bristle with the ability to shoot down infantry. What does the psilencer bring that is new, unique, and important to that equation? I think the answer is: nothing.

 

Besides, even if you're up against daemons, are psycannons bad choices? They'll wound most daemons on a 2+ (instead of a 4+), and you'll get 4 shots standing still. That's more damage than the psilencer can dish out in the same circumstances! And it will wound monstrous daemons on either 2+ or 3+ as well. Again, superior to the psilencer!

 

And yes, the psycannon costs points while the psilencer doesn't. But the 10 pts you spend give you an order of magnitude more flexibility and damage-dealing capability. If you want a heavier weapon that can rip up infantry, find 10 pts. There is no excuse not to. Psycannons are so good they'd be worth taking at twice or even thrice their given points cost.

 

Unless you are building an army list specifically to combat daemons from a static fireline, there is no purpose whatsoever to the psilencer that I can see. It is, IMHO, the best (worst) example of poor game design that GW has ever made. I have never seen a more useless piece of kit in any army codex. I doubt there is a single gamer in the world who will model psilencers for any reason other than "it looks cool" or "it has cool fluff".