Talon Darkshade Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 So we know from various novels that Chaos Space Marines have access to many things we don't see in our dex. Drop pods, Warhammers (if this isn't a thunder hammer I don't know what it is), and Thunderhawks. The later being piloted by human slave crews and/or chaos space marines. So why is it so out in left field for a Chaos space marine to look at a landed (or crashed) Storm raven and go..."Oh look the Imperial lap dogs made a Mini Thunderhawk. Lets take it." I mean if it's accepted across the board that Orks can steal imperial war machines and use them, why is it so off the wall for a Chaos Space Marine to do it. Is there some sort of "Code of Ethics" Though shalt not use Imperial machines because it would make you icky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoff Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Nice idea, but could we get the other Land Raiders first? Or at least Chaos-marked versions of Land Raiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Its totally fine to steal imperial vehicles and weapons... in apocalypse games. In normal games, it has more to do with codex balancing and the desire to keep the two factions as distinct as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Warhammers (if this isn't a thunder hammer I don't know what it is), it is a power mace . an early pre heresy desing weapon that was used and later became the thunder hammer it is in the 2ed chaos dex. So why is it so out in left field for a Chaos space marine to look at a landed (or crashed) Storm raven and go..."Oh look the Imperial lap dogs made a Mini Thunderhawk. Lets take it." the problem with armored flyers is that once you get them down there isnt much to salvage .and as chaos dudes dont realy have expiriance with flyers or anti grav engines , they wouldnt even know how to fix it. + right now we know the SR are used by 2 chapters officialy . The GK , which considering they own primarchs daily in demon form too we wont see many SR from them. And the blood angels . The blood did have a few fights with chaos , but they won most and what is more important it was mostly against khorn dudes. And as khorn lost his forge [with the forge becoming some sort of undivide chaos power in the Gav dex and the demon dex] they again wouldnt even have a chance to fix it . So yeah techinicly one can come up with any story [including those with "and a transport with X SR from FW Z got lost in the warp and csm Y found it] , but it would be like those chaos female space marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Carmine Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Brother Cluten, were you not responsible for parking the Stormraven? Yes Brother-Captain. And were you not also responsible for making sure it was secured? Yes Brother-Captain. But instead what you did was leave it on the landing pad, unlocked and with the keys in the ignition. Well... yes Brother-Captain. Cluten, you're an idiot and now the Traitor-filth have jacked it right off of the landing pad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Time was, Chaos Marines didn't have these kinds of things because it was post-Heresy equipment. Using the weapons of an empire whose very existence you see as flagrantly wrong just isn't gonna happen. Of course, since the Heresy artbooks and the little Heresy cottage industry have come around, these have been retconned into being pre-Heresy tech that the Traitor Legions just kind of forgot about for absolutely no good reason. Well-done, Black Library! I suppose there's also the necessity of keeping the universe coherent - the moment you have a faction in 40K that takes a truly pragmatic approach to technology, they win. Not "their power increases exponentially." They will have the galaxy under their bootheel before lunch. Kind of ruins the drama. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 "Hey, brothers! Over here!" "What?" "Look what I found, a tiny Thunderhawk!" "What? That ugly thing? Grandfather Nurgle wouldn't use that stupid thing as a butt scratcher." "Yeah, it's a brick on wings." "Stupid loyalists, what'll they think of next? One of their heros carrying our demon swords or something?" "No, look guys. We're running short of vehicles -" "Shut up. I'd rather kiss Calgar than ride in that." "But -" "Hey, do we have any more of those virus bombs left? I think this is worth the risk. That ugly thing can't be allowed to stand." *The Blood Angels hiding in ambush behind the rocks swore under their breath. The bait wasn't working quite as well as they'd hoped.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God Of War Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 Brother Cluten, were you not responsible for parking the Stormraven?Yes Brother-Captain. And were you not also responsible for making sure it was secured? Yes Brother-Captain. But instead what you did was leave it on the landing pad, unlocked and with the keys in the ignition. Well... yes Brother-Captain. Cluten, you're an idiot and now the Traitor-filth have jacked it right off of the landing pad! Just thought of something hilarious: Cluten sat at the computer terminal in his barracks, desperately trying to figure out what to do. The Brother-Captain would kill him if he found out he'd lost another Stormraven. He frantically typed in "Alpha Legion stole my Stormraven". He groaned when he saw the search results. It read "Did You Mean:Black Legion stole my Stormraven". But, actually, it wouldn't matter if they managed to get inside the thing.They would have no idea how to drive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 But, actually, it wouldn't matter if they managed to get inside the thing.They would have no idea how to drive it. Brother-Slaughterer Crusher McKill looked at the controls. "I have no idea how to drive it." He said to Sergeant-Butcherer Slayer Stompyboots "Of course you don't, you're useless." The thousands of years old Traitor marine growled. "Bring me the Device." The Chaos Marines crouched in the troop hold of the Storm Raven assembled a twisted array of spikey glowy bits and quickly passed it into the cockpit. The Sergeant-Butcherer angrily shoved the Brother-Slaughterer out of the way, stabbing one of the glowy spikey bits of the corrupt Device into the pilot's chair. The nefarious villain of a Traitor Marine then enacted the secret ritual to active it: blood was spilled, blasphemous words were uttered and a puppy was kicked. The Storm Raven's engines turned over and the machine began to rise. "WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO FLY THIS RIDICULOUS THING?" asked the daemon that now violated and controlled the machine spirit of the formerly Loyalist aircraft asked. "Excellent..." the Sergeant-Butcherer breathed, steepling his fingers and grinning with a mouth full of too many teeth. "Put missiles into the other Storm Raven so they can't follow us, rake the barracks with the lascannons, and buzz the tower. Then we're going to the Eye of Terror for Blood Tea and Rot Crumpets. MWA HA HA HA HA HA!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Time was, Chaos Marines didn't have these kinds of things because it was post-Heresy equipment. Using the weapons of an empire whose very existence you see as flagrantly wrong just isn't gonna happen. Of course, since the Heresy artbooks and the little Heresy cottage industry have come around, these have been retconned into being pre-Heresy tech that the Traitor Legions just kind of forgot about for absolutely no good reason. Well-done, Black Library! The Heresy art books were actually Alan Merrett's (GW's IP manager) project, made for the HH card game. Sure, Black Library publish 99% of GW's lore, but "Well done, Black Library" implies it wasn't a decision made (and indeed, executed) by GW top brass. The reasons have always been assumed to be game balance, with a variety of half-credible reasons tacked on, depending on the decade. So goes the perception. It's one of those things I try to avoid thinking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 It won't keep me from getting my claws on one of these and make a WE Assault Ram! Chaos Ceastus anyone?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narse Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The issue I have is even if we get the Storm Raven it will be worse, probably carry less guys, and not have the machine spirit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith IV Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Simple solution to this problem, adn any other caused by a lack of equipment the traitor legions deserve: Forget the Codex, I'm having it. What, you don't like that? Well don't play against me, because there are plenty of people who rightly accept my approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zincite Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 What, you don't like that? Well don't play against me, because there are plenty of people who rightly accept my approach. No need to act as if we're the bad guys. Besides the fact our delicate natures might be offended, it's a good way to get yourself killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Simple solution to this problem, adn any other caused by a lack of equipment the traitor legions deserve: Forget the Codex, I'm having it. What, you don't like that? Well don't play against me, because there are plenty of people who rightly accept my approach.The other option is forget the codex, I'm playing Night Lords with C:BA anyways.*hides* More seriously though it is mostly for balance and army uniqueness that not all more or less human factions can use all of the other factions' gear/units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 when orks could loot other armys veichles people used to be like, aww this is my awsome monolith, noone elses tank is anything like it, and the ork player would just go im havin me one of them. meant that sure gw sold an extra few monoliths but that would be it. now as you hae to stick to hat you have to a certain degree you really need to collect the whole army to go round it and that makes gw more money. thats why the whole army specific stuff exists, especially the likes of the emperors champion etc. especially fo chaos who have a load of stuff in the fluff that loyalists would never touch with a barge pole, if you had all the treats wy would anyone else be tempted to play any other army...(which is probably also partially why you codex is the way it is, last tourney i played only one of the armys i faced wasnt chaos of some form...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Hey Warsmith IV yeah you can do that but you realise My whole army gets 2++ Inv saves that I can re-roll all ones until I don't get a one right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 The Heresy art books were actually Alan Merrett's (GW's IP manager) project, made for the HH card game. Sure, Black Library publish 99% of GW's lore, but "Well done, Black Library" implies it wasn't a decision made (and indeed, executed) by GW top brass. Thanks for the clarification, Aaron. Sadly, this isn't terribly surprising. :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gore-Child Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Meh do what you wish...I already have a baneblade and I'm thinking of getting a Land raider redeemer for my Lord and termis......sure you can only use this stuff in apoc or friendly games. But still, its a game of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Meh do what you wish...I already have a baneblade and I'm thinking of getting a Land raider redeemer for my Lord and termis......sure you can only use this stuff in apoc or friendly games. But still, its a game of fun. I would agree with you. Its your army and you have to decide if your going to build it to win tournament or how you actuelly want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemesor Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 The real kicker is the codex isn't just meant to represent the traitor legions. It's also meant to represent the various warbands, lost companies and renegade chapters who have fallen to Chaos since M31. The guys who ought to have post-heresy gear. But there's none to be seen, and in many places Chaos stuff is worse than the loyalist equivalent. Chaos marines are often thieving, dishonourable buggers, that delight in turning the enemy's weapons against them. I see no reason their codex should shy away from Landspeeders, Assault Cannons, etc. If I had more than one or two guys I knew really well in the hobby, I'd have everyone swapping army list entries where it makes sense. Why can't other Chapters adopt the use of Storm Ravens? Why should BA be the only Librarian Dreadnought users? Why can't I field Astral Claws chief apothecary and master of the forge? Bugger codices. If you've got enough good mates who actually like the fluff, do whatever you all want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gore-Child Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 The reason the BA's where given the storm turkeys (aparently) is because of there fast attack nature, they needed something to keep there land raiders with the rest of the force. so Fluff it makes sence, but if that is so...shouldnt white scars get them? i think Fast attack armys should. but some armies it wouldnt make sence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 why would they have problems with having LR keep up with the rest of the force when they can deep strike them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 why would they have problems with having LR keep up with the rest of the force when they can deep strike them ?After you successfully deep struck the LR, the vehicle is slow i.e. not fast as all the rhino chassis vehicles are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 the speed would only have meaning if you had to cover long distance . sm dont do that they are a rapid strike force , unless they A are defending [the speed doesnt matter] B it is a huge chapter or more sized operation where again speed doesnt matter because the LR are probably deployed en mass in some sort of line breaker formation where others follow or outflank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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