Stealing a Storm Raven

[MaliGn]

Does anyone remember when the first Thunderhawk kit was made? Pre-Forgeworld all-metal and limited to smething like a dozen kits, delivered in a bespoke wooden box for about £300? Someone (probably at the GW studio) converted one of these to be "Abbadon's personal Thunderhawk" at the time a thunderhawk as a myth, shows how times change. Although I agree in a way, I'm guessing that every loyalist SM codex update will feature the Stormraven - in much the same way as they will all feature librarian dreadnoughts, Land Raider Redeemers and everything else that is a one off for a while before the next book stops all that as everyone gets a go. I just hope that when the Chaos book rolls around they decide we should get Stormbirds and Dreadclaws instead of 'ravens and drop pods.

[Castiel]

Can I just point out that everyone seems rather focussed on the Traitor Legions? Surely in the 10 millenia since the Heresy other chapters and squads that have turned could have taken Land Speeders, the LR variants and Stormravens with them? :P I also don't see any problem with using them with Chaos armies as long as your opponent is fine with it! After all, I'll bet they'd look cool once chaosed up!

[Excessus]

could have taken Land Speeders, the LR variants and Stormravens with them?

I thought only BAs and GKs had Stormravens...makes it a bit less likely to find one in the hands of "Spikey Bob"...

[Spacefrisian]

Can I just point out that everyone seems rather focussed on the Traitor Legions? Surely in the 10 millenia since the Heresy other chapters and squads that have turned could have taken Land Speeders, the LR variants and Stormravens with them? :D I also don't see any problem with using them with Chaos armies as long as your opponent is fine with it! After all, I'll bet they'd look cool once chaosed up!

 

 

Everybody knows that when one chapter turns to chaos all knowledge of how there Landspeeders Whirlwinds etc etc works is instantly forgotten and lost. And thats not even a result of the Matt effect.

[Leonaides]

The real kicker is the codex isn't just meant to represent the traitor legions. It's also meant to represent the various warbands, lost companies and renegade chapters who have fallen to Chaos since M31. The guys who ought to have post-heresy gear. But there's none to be seen, and in many places Chaos stuff is worse than the loyalist equivalent.

 

Chaos marines are often thieving, dishonourable buggers, that delight in turning the enemy's weapons against them. I see no reason their codex should shy away from Landspeeders, Assault Cannons, etc.

 

If I had more than one or two guys I knew really well in the hobby, I'd have everyone swapping army list entries where it makes sense. Why can't other Chapters adopt the use of Storm Ravens? Why should BA be the only Librarian Dreadnought users? Why can't I field Astral Claws chief apothecary and master of the forge?

 

Bugger codices. If you've got enough good mates who actually like the fluff, do whatever you all want to do.

Becaseu little tricksy things like assault cannons require a helluva lot of servicing and repairs. They need a new barrel after each engagement (which has to be specially made to exacting standards), Landspeeders require hard-to access repair equipment, Storm Ravens probably also are fairly hard to maintain. Why do Chaos Marines stick with the Reaper Autocannon - becasue its reliable, easy to maintain and easy to use (and wont blow up on them) and it worked enough fo rthem to conquer the galaxy durign the Crusade. Why dont they use Landspeeders? Because they're hard to maintain for any reasonable length of time. I'm sure they do, but after 1 or 2 battles, too many bits wont be working after battle-damage... Imagine a speeder that can only more 6", occasionally lets out a loud bang and a large puff of smoke, suddenly looses height for no reason and only the heavy bolter still works... Would you offer to fly it if you were a chaos marine?

 

Why dont they use StormRavens? I'm guessing for a fairly similar reason...

[Quixus]

Everybody knows that when one chapter turns to chaos all knowledge of how there Landspeeders Whirlwinds etc etc works is instantly forgotten and lost. And thats not even a result of the Matt effect.

That's a problem of GW's disconnect between rules and fluff. Fluff says Space Marines can turn traitor. The rules however say you play an army from one and only one codex. This is probably because GW wants armies that look and play differently and are balanced against one another. Modelling a Chaos Stormraven or Landspeeders gives interesting opportunities, but from a gaming perspective you should then use C:BA to get both vehicles and lose all the C:CSM specific units.

 

And don't forget that every traitor is gifted a chainsword by the Dark Powers, if they don't have one already, as soon as they fall to Chaos. ;)

[Excessus]

also, don't forget the dreads go completely mad overnight...

[Quixus]

"Techmarine, better chain down all our venerable brothers who serve in the armored bodies of the dreadnoughts. You never know what might happen when we throw down the shackles of the corpse god."

"Right away, my lord. Speaking of changes to our motor pool, a four-legged machine that wants to be called Deffy suddenly appeared in the garage."

[Spacefrisian]

"Techmarine, better chain down all our venerable brothers who serve in the armored bodies of the dreadnoughts. You never know what might happen when we throw down the shackles of the corpse god."

"Right away, my lord. Speaking of changes to our motor pool, a four-legged machine that wants to be called Deffy suddenly appeared in the garage."

 

 

Deffy is bringing the pie plates, the pie plates of doom. Cause Abbadon has been sending his rejects to a Spacemarine chapter gone rogue.

[Quixus]

hmm pie.

[dizzy-xc]

Brother Cluten, were you not responsible for parking the Stormraven?

Yes Brother-Captain.

And were you not also responsible for making sure it was secured?

Yes Brother-Captain.

But instead what you did was leave it on the landing pad, unlocked and with the keys in the ignition.

Well... yes Brother-Captain.

Cluten, you're an idiot and now the Traitor-filth have jacked it right off of the landing pad!

Just thought of something hilarious:

Cluten sat at the computer terminal in his barracks, desperately trying to figure out what to do.

The Brother-Captain would kill him if he found out he'd lost another Stormraven.

He frantically typed in "Alpha Legion stole my Stormraven".

He groaned when he saw the search results.

It read "Did You Mean:Black Legion stole my Stormraven".

 

But, actually, it wouldn't matter if they managed to get inside the thing.They would have no idea how to drive it.

 

LMAO

[alphariusomegon20]

Actually guys, IIRC, Thunderhawks were a PRE heresy item.

 

So someone would know how to drive it to steal it, plus more than a few Chaos warbands still have Thunderhawks.

 

I'd almost bet AL has stolen one at some point from somewhere and it's disappearance got lost in the red tape of the Munitorum shuffle.

 

 

The real kicker is the codex isn't just meant to represent the traitor legions. It's also meant to represent the various warbands, lost companies and renegade chapters who have fallen to Chaos since M31. The guys who ought to have post-heresy gear. But there's none to be seen, and in many places Chaos stuff is worse than the loyalist equivalent.

 

Chaos marines are often thieving, dishonourable buggers, that delight in turning the enemy's weapons against them. I see no reason their codex should shy away from Landspeeders, Assault Cannons, etc.

 

If I had more than one or two guys I knew really well in the hobby, I'd have everyone swapping army list entries where it makes sense. Why can't other Chapters adopt the use of Storm Ravens? Why should BA be the only Librarian Dreadnought users? Why can't I field Astral Claws chief apothecary and master of the forge?

 

Bugger codices. If you've got enough good mates who actually like the fluff, do whatever you all want to do.

Becaseu little tricksy things like assault cannons require a helluva lot of servicing and repairs. They need a new barrel after each engagement (which has to be specially made to exacting standards), Landspeeders require hard-to access repair equipment, Storm Ravens probably also are fairly hard to maintain. Why do Chaos Marines stick with the Reaper Autocannon - becasue its reliable, easy to maintain and easy to use (and wont blow up on them) and it worked enough fo rthem to conquer the galaxy durign the Crusade. Why dont they use Landspeeders? Because they're hard to maintain for any reasonable length of time. I'm sure they do, but after 1 or 2 battles, too many bits wont be working after battle-damage... Imagine a speeder that can only more 6", occasionally lets out a loud bang and a large puff of smoke, suddenly looses height for no reason and only the heavy bolter still works... Would you offer to fly it if you were a chaos marine?

 

Why dont they use StormRavens? I'm guessing for a fairly similar reason...

 

True but a Lascannon's a lascannon and a Heavy Bolter's a heavy bolter, whether it's Chaos made or Loyalist.

 

They could easily maintain an SR with that particular setup.

[maverike_prime]

I mean if it's accepted across the board that Orks can steal imperial war machines and use them, why is it so off the wall for a Chaos Space Marine to do it. Is there some sort of "Code of Ethics" Though shalt not use Imperial machines because it would make you icky.

 

There's a key problem with this logic: Ork technology doesn't work mechanically. It works because the orks believe it works. I want to say it was the Gorkka Morka book (someome please correct me if I'm wrong) but there was a passage where a Marine charged an Ork possition while being shot at by Orks. He saw an Ork slamming a fresh clip into his weapon so before the ork can attack, he killed the ork and went to pick up the gun to use against the other orks. He pulled the trigger... and... it didn't work. Later he looked inside the case to find nothing but random pieces and parts. No working mechanical system what so ever. An ork can pick up a slingshot, and if he believes it's a hand held lascannon, it will be a hand held lascannon.

 

Chaos... hmm not so much.

[Spacefrisian]

Sometimes Ork tech works, read the Spacewolves series about Ragnar, he races in an Ork vehicle.

[maverike_prime]

Sometimes Ork tech works, read the Spacewolves series about Ragnar, he races in an Ork vehicle.

 

Yes, everyone now and again a mek happens to put the right gears in the right order between the motor and drive shaft for it actually work based on mechanics. No argument there. But just because Orks can walk up to a pile of scrap, slam a hammer into a few places, make a liberal application of torch work and full the red container with something that Burns when they throw a match on it and manage to somehow get a motorized vehicle out of that process is not justification for CSMs to accomplish the same thing.

[Lexington]

There's a key problem with this logic: Ork technology doesn't work mechanically.

I used to think the same thing (as someone who plays Orks when not toying with power armor, I quite liked the notion), but as several people beat into my head over the years, this is only supposed to be true of the crazier Ork technologies. Shootas, buggies and the like actually work like they should - Shokk Attack Guns, perhaps, not so much so. :)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Well, Imperial Tech does work mechanically, so it wouldn't present a problem when working with Stormravens, especially with the Dark Mechanicus.

[Leonaides]

True but a Lascannon's a lascannon and a Heavy Bolter's a heavy bolter, whether it's Chaos made or Loyalist.

 

They could easily maintain an SR with that particular setup.

 

On that basis, yes, they could probably re-load and re-arm the guns. But do they have the sapre parts for the engines, do they have the detailed knowledge of what that little flashing light in the cockpit means? Do they know where the ignition key is?

 

Thank-you for proving why chaos marines dont have Stormravens. Its not all about the guns old boy. not by a long shot...

[MaliGn]

Being as most imperial and chaos marine tech is built from the same STC's and seem ideal for use by power armoured crew why would you so radically alter the design paradigm of the controls between vehicles/craft? the mechanicum cult's machine spirit is replaceable in a Land Raider by a daemon (or was) so why not the machine spirit of a storm raven? Realistically the difference in control mechanism between a storm raven and a thunderhawk would be negligible, the targetting arrays would work the same way, albeit for different weapon systems and the flight controls would be comparable. A trained pilot would be able to work out the differences without too much difficulty in much the same way that a real world pilot might not be as competant in a plane he's not used to flying as he would be in the plane he fies on a almost daily basis, doesn't mean that he wouldn't be able to work it. Even a khorne bezerker can suspend his frothing bloodlust enogh to drive the rhino at the enemy before just randomly hacking at his mates for lack of anyone else! In Anthony Reynold's Dark Apostle Burias drives an imperial guard chimera, he's cramped, sure but he still makes it work. This is also the only occaision on which he is referenced as driving anything, so it's not like he's an elite rhino driver or anything. You would expect the extensive military trainign space marines are subjected to include at least the basics of the opertion of all space marine vehicles, mainly as part of their versatility. In the same way that once destroyed space marine vehicles should yield their crew (subject to any damage they may sustain according to what would happen to passengers - possibly amplified for more weapns-based vehicles like predators or vindicators) and the crew members would be as competant with bolter and chainsword as any other marine. Of course until a CSM in Dan Abnett or A D-B's next novel does it there will still be nay-sayers, and even when it's in the next codex, with a "Chaos Stormraven" boxed set on the shelves complete with typical Chaos vehicle accessory sprue with all manner of trophy racks completely unsuitable for a flyer that should more resemble a reaver ship from firefly; there will still be people who say "nah, chaos marines can't maintain them they're too fiddly" It's just not the case.

 

If they do release a CSM Stormraven it should have replacement engine parts shaped like daemonic maws and loads of ways of attaching victims to the exterior of the hull, and a new chaotic cockpit. On tht nore they should re-cut the vehicle accessory sprues with stock "chaos tracks and doors" (amonst other things) to stop us having to fork out for unnessecary forgeworld upgrades, that do look cool but aren't worth the money on a rhino....

[Spacefrisian]

I doubt Chaos gets a Stormraven, i think they add some sort of fighter jet instead. Wich is also more Chaos.

 

Hell Talon

[Arkangilos]

I have not read anywhere that Chaos will not use Imperial technology. In fact, thats what they enjoy stealing.

 

heck, their warships were all the BEST starships that Mechanicus ever made, and they stole those. So how can they not use Imperial Tech? How can they shun it if they stold the newest, greatest Imperial Ships and made them their own?

 

Also, as has been stated, not all chaos marines are pre-heresy. Those that turn now will definately have knowledge, and those that turned before are still actually smart enough to use their resources and find out how.

 

Also, IIRC, Storm Ravens were supposed to be for every chapter, but the idea was not thought of until the BA, so that was the first codex it was put in. Ideas have to start somewhere, this one started there.

 

Also, I agree with the above post, the Hell Talion will probably be their option, though it would be cool to see a Storm Raven for chaos.

 

Oh, and Leonaidos, where does it say anywhere that they can not maintain their equipment? If anything, considering the fact that many chapters are using equipment that dates back to the heresy itself would say that they are GOOD at maintaining their gear. And just because one person turns to chaos does not mean that he forgets what he had learned.

 

And there does exist a terribly evil orginization known as the Dark Mechanicus.

[jaxjace]

66 dollars per storm raven more than 400 dollars for thunderhawk, you do the math... the ultramarines want them a damn storm raven.

[alphariusomegon20]

True but a Lascannon's a lascannon and a Heavy Bolter's a heavy bolter, whether it's Chaos made or Loyalist.

 

They could easily maintain an SR with that particular setup.

 

On that basis, yes, they could probably re-load and re-arm the guns. But do they have the sapre parts for the engines, do they have the detailed knowledge of what that little flashing light in the cockpit means? Do they know where the ignition key is?

 

Thank-you for proving why chaos marines dont have Stormravens. Its not all about the guns old boy. not by a long shot...

 

First off, NO flyer has an ignition key. It's not a car.

 

Second, all planes have the same basic systems, no matter the type or age. A person that flies a Cessna all the time could look at the console of a jumbo 747 and tell you what basically everything meant just from a glance. That and most everything in a cockpit is labeled as to what it is, anyways.

 

Third, you need spare parts? Easy, Steal more than one, and reverse engineer the second one. Not that hard of a concept.

 

Thank you for proving that you know little about how planes work.

 

Chaos isn't stupid, and should have tech comparable to the loyalists after 10K years, and in some cases, their tech should surpass the abilities of Imperium's (as evidenced by the creation of the Hellblade and the Hell Talon.)

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

This is the Imperium we're talking about. Their hasn't been a major technological advance in ten millennia. I think the controls should be the same. Besides, if a Tanzanian pilot can switch from flying a twin turbine passenger jet to flying a dinky little 10-seater, it shouldn't be to hard for the marines to do it.

[KOR GIDEON]

Hey Warsmith IV yeah you can do that but you realise My whole army gets 2++ Inv saves that I can re-roll all ones until I don't get a one right?

 

well whitefireinferno u must 1st remember that in apocalypse battles what ever a space marine chapter can field a chaos space marine force has access but not vice versa, 2nd remember that within the eye of terror u have the dark mechanicum, so they would no doubt have access to non chaotic technology and sell to other chaos forces, 3rd space marinesat 1 point rode into battle on jetbikes with was pre heresy tech 1 example is sammael, master of the ravenwing, dark angel codex and 4th if ur gona make a comment such as 2+ inv saves any 1s can be re rolled would simply spoil the game.

I intend on adding 2 storm ravens to my word bearers along with a 2nd storm lord, a warhound and a old freind called Khârn the betrayer (i may be a word bearer but i still respect potential).