Walter Payton Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Not sure the 'earn you daemonhood, then go on your merry way' theory works either. While I'm inclined to agree that complete reversal is likely out of the question, I don't feel handing them this status is the be-all-and-end-all. Imo, to provide them with the immortality that they desire (while retaining a some form of mentality/physicality) requires the willingness of a god(s) to remain attached to their chosen champion and continually invest power in them. We've seen them desert champions before such as Horus so it's not like they never go back on the deals. As such, I don't think it's a far reach to suggest that if the gods, fickle as they are, could theoretically become fed-up with daemonic champions they will withdraw these favours and their energies to let the warp have it's way with them instead. Not that we'd hear much of these failures or that the dark gods would pick champions unwisely. The Chaos Gods don't do anything for free. Any agreement therewith will mean that the mortal has to provide a service in return. I imagine that once you become a daemon prince then that's you set; immortal (unless you get yourself stuck in a tesseract labryinth or pyschically obliterated), powerful and with armies at your command. In return, however, you are part of the raw stuff of Chaos; an extension of a God (or Gods). Thus, your free will is gone forever; you can act freely, but only within certain parameters, which you cannot even comprehend exceeding. Since daemons are essentially physical manifestations of Chaos Gods' power, it seems logical that they cannot comprehend treachery; that is the price you pay when you bargain your soul for daemonhood. Horus wasn't a daemon; he still had the power to reject them (as indeed he did, at the last). Once you are a daemon, your form, both psychic and physical, is irrevocably bound to Chaos; treachery is impossible. It would be like trying, as a normal human being, to imagine colours outside the visual spectrum; it cannot be done. The only exceptions to this rule I can imagine would be Daemons of Tzeentch, who might be able to manipulate other daemons or betray Tzeentch, but then he may have planned for them to betray him... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231235-traitor-primarchs-and-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2785458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Apostle Thirst Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 What about Skarbrand then? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231235-traitor-primarchs-and-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2785535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Skarbrand is still loyal to Khorne, despite being tricked into attacking him. But Khorne wasn't going to let anyone get away with undermining his authority and set out to make an example of this betrayal in front of all those who would carry any similar thoughts. The Chaos Gods don't do anything for free. Any agreement therewith will mean that the mortal has to provide a service in return. I imagine that once you become a daemon prince then that's you set; immortal (unless you get yourself stuck in a tesseract labryinth or pyschically obliterated), powerful and with armies at your command. In return, however, you are part of the raw stuff of Chaos; an extension of a God (or Gods). Thus, your free will is gone forever; you can act freely, but only within certain parameters, which you cannot even comprehend exceeding. Since daemons are essentially physical manifestations of Chaos Gods' power, it seems logical that they cannot comprehend treachery; that is the price you pay when you bargain your soul for daemonhood. Horus wasn't a daemon; he still had the power to reject them (as indeed he did, at the last). Once you are a daemon, your form, both psychic and physical, is irrevocably bound to Chaos; treachery is impossible. It would be like trying, as a normal human being, to imagine colours outside the visual spectrum; it cannot be done. The only exceptions to this rule I can imagine would be Daemons of Tzeentch, who might be able to manipulate other daemons or betray Tzeentch, but then he may have planned for them to betray him... Didn't say otherwise regarding their price for daemonhood, nor did the comparison of Horus suggest he was a daemon. Only it highlighted the inconstant attitudes the dark gods have when someone falls out of favour with them. Otherwise, we've come to a crossroad regarding this discussion. Is a daemon-prince imbued with its own power to summon armies and reincarnate itself or do that they still rely on their respective gods to withdraw power from the ether for the daemon-prince to achieve this?.. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231235-traitor-primarchs-and-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2785883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 There is a good example of what happens to greater daemons of Tzeentch who fail him in Hammer of Daemons, rather than demoting or stripping them of power he just seems to outright obliterate them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231235-traitor-primarchs-and-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2786015 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 For Greater Deamons I do believe this is the case too, as previously discussed. But would the same happen to a daemon-prince - a being whose origins aren't fully warp-borne? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231235-traitor-primarchs-and-daemons/page/2/#findComment-2786116 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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