nemesis force weapons against daemons

[stephane4985]

So Nemesis force weapons are force weapon, so they ignore armour save and you make a ld test when you first wound to see if they inflict instant death.

 

Daemons all have Inv. saves, so they get their save, and are immune to instant death. So the weapons then just hit daemons like a normal weapon.

 

Then there is daemonBane, which means a daemon that has suffer one or more wounds that round must make a ld test and suffer instant death if not pass. But they all have ld 10.

 

So my question, Am I missing another thing that would make the Nemesis force weapon great against daemons or that just it?

[Tessius]

I came up against this in my last game. Kind of frustrating, especially against a Bloodthirster that gets a 2+ invul vs force weapons, which is my whole army.

[Justcar]

That's why you have dark excommunication! :huh:

[Freman Bloodglaive]

That's it.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Ironically, the daemonhunters are actually a marine killer army, and rely on psychic powers to deal with daemons.

[Souba]

or you just shoot them to bits with psycannons and the like. we got pretty versatile in fighting the daemon.

[DantonTH]

Yep, that's it, but we have still Psyk-out grenades and Preferred enemy:daemons to boost our shining knights in CC :)

[skarn]

You can keep your Draigo fluff, warp travelling planets, space apes, all of it. The fact I have to take a libby with DE simply because of the number of khorne daemon players around here is my biggest hate of this codex. I would happily swap warp quake for getting rid of the 2++ invulnerable.

[Token]

Hm, can you choose to let your marines strike a bloodthirster with their fists?

 

edit: Can you call Grey Knights marines?

[gil galed]

Hm, can you choose to let your marines strike a bloodthirster with their fists?

 

edit: Can you call Grey Knights marines?

 

Yes they're marines.

 

No i'm pretty sure you have to use your special weapons if you have them. Which is a shame but there we go.

 

~Gil :lol:

[Gentlemanloser]

You can keep your Draigo fluff, warp travelling planets, space apes, all of it. The fact I have to take a libby with DE simply because of the number of khorne daemon players around here is my biggest hate of this codex. I would happily swap warp quake for getting rid of the 2++ invulnerable.

 

DreadKnights also have Dark Excommunication.

 

That, coupled with Warp Quake, Psyk-out 'nades and PE: Daemons mean any Daemon army has a very hard time facing us.

[Token]

A thing against only having the option to strike with the weapons that are listed under wargear: Ork meganobz have megaarmor(including power klaw) and stikkbombz. If they only have the option of striking with power klaw, the stikkbombz would have no effect, or am i missing something?

[ilnar]

Left over from the last edition, when you could choose your weapon,

Pg 42 BRB

All attacks use the special weapons bonuses and penalties

[Token]

ah, to bad. Striking down a bloodthirster with your fists would be better. And cooler.

[Flinch]

Funnily enough, I came across this the other weekend. 3 or 4 Daemons in a Daemon Army with blessing of the blood god. What killed them all?

 

Crowe.

 

Yup. The guy everyone loves to bash as a waste of points. Single handedly killed 3 MC Daemons with his daemon blade that he uses as a normal sword.

 

OK... stormbolters and psycannons reducing them to 1 or 2 wounds before he charged helped a bit, but a Greater Daemon or Daemon Prince with 1 wound left deals as much damage as one with full wounds.

 

Still, its a little funny that Grey knights who are supposed to be the ultimate Daemon killing machines are more effective at killing other stuff, and just as effective vs Daemons as other marines...

[Daedalus Templarius]

Seems like blessing of the blood god is really rough to get through unless you have some way of taking it off your enemies. 2++ against force weapons is nuts. You'd be better just trying to keep the ones with that at range and shooting them to death.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Warp Quake is extremely useful against daemons. I don't face many daemons players at my local store but I read about games when warp quake made nearly impossible to most daemon units to deploy properly on the battlefield, causing their defeat.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

'Blessing' only applies to a handful of models, and they're all hacky not shooty. Ergo, seeing as Daemons give you at least a turn of shooting before they can charge you, prepare to have enough firepower to gun the problem units down before that happens. Massed psycannon/autocannon/storm bolter will kill off a Bloodthirster, Khorne Dogs, Khorne Herald etc.

 

Also, Dreadknight with greatsword, psycannon or incinerator, and teleporter is pure win. Drive-by his clustered up packs with a heavy psycannon or incinerator, intercept his stupid Bloodthirster. For extra lulz, get a Librarian close with 'Quicksilver' so you go first with re-rolls to hit (and due to greatsword) to wound.

[Warsmith IV]

Don't knock Daemonbane, it may only have a 2/11 chance (I think) of killing a Daemon outright, but that's still valuable when normally this is impossible. In fact, on Thursday I fought some Daemons with my Grey Knights and guess what? Having lost only 1 wound, a Bloodthirster failed his Leadership.

[embalancer]

Anyone else feel that it was slightly odd that the Libbys didn't get Null zone as a power?

[jeffersonian000]

No, not at all. A GK Librarian with Null Zone would be just as abusive as The Summoning paired with Homing Beacons.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

No, not at all. A GK Librarian with Null Zone would be just as abusive as The Summoning paired with Homing Beacons.

 

You mean, keeping in the army style (because lets face it, the only armies that care about re-rolling invul saves they made are Daemons). Also, on your analogy, I would prefer

'The Summoning' could be combined with a teleport homer etc, or (gasp) it didn't scatter. I'd still put up with 'lol your vehicle can't do anything' restrictions, just make the power work :D as it stands now, I just take 'Warp Rift' instead for hilarity.

[templargdt]

Anyone else feel that it was slightly odd that the Libbys didn't get Null zone as a power?

 

Yeah, I did. We got a couple of powers from C:SM but not the one that demons hate.

[jeffersonian000]

It’s called balancing. GK are an anti-daemon force with weapons that are negated by a common ability all daemons have. They have some excellent tactical powers that do not work with their wargear. And they in general have equipment best suited for countering the current meta-game rather than the one actual enemy they are supposed to be the best at killing. Yes, I can see why they do not have Null Zone as a power available to their Librarians.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

It’s called balancing. GK are an anti-daemon force with weapons that are negated by a common ability all daemons have. They have some excellent tactical powers that do not work with their wargear. And they in general have equipment best suited for countering the current meta-game rather than the one actual enemy they are supposed to be the best at killing. Yes, I can see why they do not have Null Zone as a power available to their Librarians.

 

I dunno, at least this time round, our nemesis force weapons do something to Daemons (they essentially re-created 'Instability' but without making it messy and complicated like last time). I'd say the new codex represents our anti-daemon focus better than before ('Dark Excommunication' is pointless against everyone else, but it comes free on the Dreadknight, so it's not a challenge to fit in).

 

Our equipment is actually pretty anti-daemonic when you think about it. Massed dakka is the surest way to break invul saves, rather than pricey one-shot weapons. You'll kill more Greater Daemons with massed storm bolter and psycannon (or even psilencer lol) than lascannons or meltaguns (or even plasma). Also, we still don't have plentiful access to melta or long-ranged firepower, which is sorta required to counter mech. Psycannons help, but we often need the same guns to target multiple things. Other armies have several units which each tackle different targets; we are very flexible but the price you pay is having to do everything.

 

Another potential 'take all comers' problem is that we suck in close-combat. We are heavily reliant on mauling enemy units with our firepower, to swing close-combat in our favour. Aside from weak cannon fodder, lone monsters or characters, our limited number of S4 force weapon attacks don't scare people that much. Even expensive MeQ armies will often outnumber us by a 1/3rd, more if you try and build a TDA/Purifier core army.

 

Maybe 'Null Zone' did prove too OP in playtesting, but I don't know how things like 'Warp Rift' or 'Sanctuary' got through then. 'Shrouding' is also pretty OP in certain scenarios (mechanised Knights for example).