Fire Lord Captain Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Hi chaps, I'm going to be playing against my mate and his new blood angel army in a few hours. I "think" he will be fielding a mostly jump pack force including vanguard and the sanguinary guard, also he mentioned he has a crusader/redeemer too (probably loading it out as a redeemer). Now I pretty much have a lot of tac marines, 10 standard termies, a pred, lr crus/redeem, scouts and a landspeeder storm, libby, chappy, captain and a couple of rhinos (sadly a lot of my marines are unassembled) I think the points will be around 1500 - 2000. Whats the best tactics to use to grind the BA into the dust? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 the best way to beat them IMO is to deny assault as much as possible.. shoot them at range with plasma and pack the odd melta for dealing with vehicles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lord Captain Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 the best way to beat them IMO is to deny assault as much as possible.. shoot them at range with plasma and pack the odd melta for dealing with vehicles Thats what I was thinking too. Not much else I can do tbh. Maybe equip my ls storm with a meltagun to drop behind his lines? Thanks. EDIT: forgot that I have two Dreads.. load them with multimeltas or lascannon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'm not saying this to boast or anything, but I cannot remember the last time I was beaten by Blood Angels. Yes Blood Angels are fast. Yes they are durable. Yes they are more assaulty. But in the end, their fast vehicles costs more, their durability costs more, and their assaulty nature hamstrings them to specialising in one area of battle. The reason I don't find Blood Angels too hard then is because of the latter more than anything. Having a versatile list and being able to react to your opponent well will pull you through the battle. You control long range, or arguably midfield better than him, use those advantages. Blow their forces away, react well to them, and counter-assault them, as GC08 says, deny them the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I'm not saying this to boast or anything, but I cannot remember the last time I was beaten by Blood Angels. Yes Blood Angels are fast. Yes they are durable. Yes they are more assaulty. But in the end, their fast vehicles costs more, their durability costs more, and their assaulty nature hamstrings them to specialising in one area of battle. The reason I don't find Blood Angels too hard then is because of the latter more than anything. Having a versatile list and being able to react to your opponent well will pull you through the battle. You control long range, or arguably midfield better than him, use those advantages. Blow their forces away, react well to them, and counter-assault them, as GC08 says, deny them the charge. Blood angels aren't always an assault army and certainly arn't hamstringed into one area of battle. They can fit huge amounts of shooting into their army lists , Such as a six predator list which can lay down huge amounts of firepower at 36" range. Blood angels have the same durability as regular marines outside of sanguinary priests , which are A) expensive and B ) our tanks are expensive enough without spending points on a minor strength increase and a situational feel no pain for our infantry which is ignore by the majority of shooting which features heavily in modern lists , ( Ie melta , krak missles , dark lances ,plasma etc) As for beating Blood angels , they are marines still , so what works against marines will kill them as well , plasma , high strength shooting and torrent of fire are all effective at killing them. Remain aware of their movement , they can close distances very quickly which can leave your vehicles exposed to melta very early in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project.2501 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 The best advice I can give is generic old 'kill fast movers that were actually deployed first, troops/transports second and armor last'. If he puts a fully loaded (with troops/dreadnought) stormraven on the board, shoot it down first as it's a two-for-one mega points deal. Otherwise, as stated, their just marines... that you don't want charging you. Dump your squads out of their rhinos and block the hell out of his lanes if you have to. Also, when you assault/get assaulted, do you have pwr wpn (of any variety) equipped squads/Sgts.? Much less worry about FNP with those thrown around, and remember to focus attacks on Sanguinary Priests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Lord Captain Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 cheers for the advice guys, deny the charge and block them off with firepower seemed to work! Plus a lucky plasma cannon shot which wiped out his 5 man sanguinary guard! His face was a picture with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Blood angels aren't always an assault army and certainly arn't hamstringed into one area of battle. They can fit huge amounts of shooting into their army lists , Such as a six predator list which can lay down huge amounts of firepower at 36" range. Blood angels have the same durability as regular marines outside of sanguinary priests , which are A) expensive and B ) our tanks are expensive enough without spending points on a minor strength increase and a situational feel no pain for our infantry which is ignore by the majority of shooting which features heavily in modern lists , ( Ie melta , krak missles , dark lances ,plasma etc) As for beating Blood angels , they are marines still , so what works against marines will kill them as well , plasma , high strength shooting and torrent of fire are all effective at killing them. Remain aware of their movement , they can close distances very quickly which can leave your vehicles exposed to melta very early in the game. I'd imagine it's a meta game thing. There's four Blood Angels players that I can think off the top of my head at my local GW, and all play different armies, which is fantastic. One plays Razorspam, his is the hardest and perhaps the most flexible, and can put out a lot of firepower as you've said. Another is DoA, but because of the way that plays he is hamstrung into one playstyle which is easy to counter. Another plays Rhino rush, which while scary with fast Rhinos, can be easily neutralised. And the other plays with lots of jumpers (but not DoA), which I haven't faced, but is hard to shift thanks to Sang Priests. But then again each unit costs a lot, and he has only one method of warfare. Just giving the reasons for my comment, it seems that if people want firepower they hop over to Space Wolves or Tau or Guard from where I'm from. However, I'm one of two people at Vets who still plays standard Marines (the other is a staff member and plays a Vulkan Sallies list), so perhaps I'm a little biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northoceanbeach Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 why do you say that rhino rush with fast rhinos can be easily neutralized? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 why do you say that rhino rush with fast rhinos can be easily neutralized? I'm curious to hear the answer to this as well. I have to say, my Rhino rush has worked remarkably well now that my Rhinos are Fast. Sure, they'll immobilize or pop two or three of em, but if I have four or five Rhinos on the table, most of my bolters are going to get where I need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 why do you say that rhino rush with fast rhinos can be easily neutralized? I'm curious to hear the answer to this as well. I have to say, my Rhino rush has worked remarkably well now that my Rhinos are Fast. Sure, they'll immobilize or pop two or three of em, but if I have four or five Rhinos on the table, most of my bolters are going to get where I need them. Mainly because I have Typhoons, Rifleman Dreads, and quite a bit of midfield melta and plasma. So maybe it should be my army can easily neutralize them :). Still, I admit that it's worrying to have the opposition in your half of the battlefield before you even reach midfield, but I've not truthfully had much problem with Rhino rushes. This could have something to do with the calibre of the player though. Truthfully, while he's a lovely guy and really enjoys playing the game, he's not the best tactician, which could be why I don't find it too challenging. Do enjoy playing against him though, fun battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 cheers for the advice guys, deny the charge and block them off with firepower seemed to work! Plus a lucky plasma cannon shot which wiped out his 5 man sanguinary guard! His face was a picture with that one. Well done :tu: Now if you want a harder challenge, point out to your buddy that Blood Angels get Devastators cheaper than C:SM and that all his Rhino-chassis vehicles are Fast, so they can put out more firepower on the move than C:SM vehicles or cover much more distance (Flat Out of 18"). Get him thinking about a well-balanced Blood Angels list that includes both firepower and assault capability and really test yourself against that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 cheers for the advice guys, deny the charge and block them off with firepower seemed to work! Plus a lucky plasma cannon shot which wiped out his 5 man sanguinary guard! His face was a picture with that one. Well done :tu: Now if you want a harder challenge, point out to your buddy that Blood Angels get Devastators cheaper than C:SM and that all his Rhino-chassis vehicles are Fast, so they can put out more firepower on the move than C:SM vehicles or cover much more distance (Flat Out of 18"). Get him thinking about a well-balanced Blood Angels list that includes both firepower and assault capability and really test yourself against that ;) The fact that the Rhinos are fast doesn't alter the rules about tap hatch shooting; the vehicle still has to be absolutely stationary for the passengers to be able to fire Heavy Weapons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well done :wallbash: Now if you want a harder challenge, point out to your buddy that Blood Angels get Devastators cheaper than C:SM and that all his Rhino-chassis vehicles are Fast, so they can put out more firepower on the move than C:SM vehicles or cover much more distance (Flat Out of 18"). Get him thinking about a well-balanced Blood Angels list that includes both firepower and assault capability and really test yourself against that :angry: Did anyone else notice the irony? Haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well done :tu: Now if you want a harder challenge, point out to your buddy that Blood Angels get Devastators cheaper than C:SM and that all his Rhino-chassis vehicles are Fast, so they can put out more firepower on the move than C:SM vehicles or cover much more distance (Flat Out of 18"). Get him thinking about a well-balanced Blood Angels list that includes both firepower and assault capability and really test yourself against that :D Did anyone else notice the irony? Haha. Not a lick. Rhino-chassis transports in the BA dex cost easily 60% more than their variety in the vanilla dex, so you're paying for Fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 My own record vs BAs depends on the quality of the player. Codex (Ultramarines) have to contend with BAs having FNP, cover saves, you name it. Vs Mech'd BAs, it is usually a pretty fair fight if you are prepared. A well balanced marine list with a strong assault element (assault terminators) usually does the trick. Mutually supportive fire zones are good here. You can spread out a bit to make sure you have good fire lanes. Just be aware of their special predators (ability to outflank or scout, AP3 flame templates) and other unique abilities. Vs DOA BAs, or hybrid DOA/DC/Dread/Flyer BAs it is usually all tooth and nail till the end, or the codex marines get badly beaten. To defeat the BAs in this style of game, codex marine players have to create their own bubble of null zone, low AP, High S and countercharge pain, and hit the BAs with everything you can, taking out librarians and apothecaries as a general priority. Power sword and lightning claws are a good friend to have. Where they have a flyer-deployed death company dread, the real threat with blood talons, you absolutely need to stay away from charge range or be ready to see it wreck a unit every turn. Overall, with jump pack hordes dropping all around you, you cannot outrun them with a codex marine list, so you might as well castle up and fight. The BA's first tactical priority with a list like this is to table you, not to worry about objectives. My blog on B&C has a few vs BA reports. You can take a look at those and learn from my in-game blunders and sometime dramatic successes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The fact that the Rhinos are fast doesn't alter the rules about tap hatch shooting; the vehicle still has to be absolutely stationary for the passengers to be able to fire Heavy Weapons I wasn't indicating Rhinos will fire more- "Rhino chassis" refers to Predators, Vindicators, Whirlwinds and Razorbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 The fact that the Rhinos are fast doesn't alter the rules about tap hatch shooting; the vehicle still has to be absolutely stationary for the passengers to be able to fire Heavy Weapons I wasn't indicating Rhinos will fire more- "Rhino chassis" refers to Predators, Vindicators, Whirlwinds and Razorbacks. Missed that, my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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