Starting a Deathwatch army

[Cmdr Shepard]

Greetings Battle Brothers.

I plan to start a Deathwatch using Codex: Space Marines. I don't if this is the right forum but since Deathwathc is formally an Inquisition controlled organization I decided to post it here.

 

The intention to base my Deathwatch on C:SM originated from my desire to collect a different army from my main, and beloved, GK force.

Since I want to stay close to 40k story I belive Deathwatch cannot be represented by Codex: Grey Knights. GK are the most specific military organization in wharhammer 40k universe and I'd prefer to make my Deatwatch different from my main Grey Knights army.

 

I have only few requirements:

1. The army must be legal because I want be able to play it.

2. ForgeWorld units are welcomed. I know there are several limitations on tournaments but I already have a huge GK collection for tournament's use.

3. I'd like to make my army competitive, if possible

 

Can you help me?

 

Thank You for your assistance Battle Brothers.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

I'm a Space Wolf player, but I'll add my two cents. It always seemed to me that a Sternguard heavy force would best represent Deathwatch, with lot of special weapons and wargear. Maybe add in Kantor so they're scoring and therefor more competitve.

[number6]

I'm a Space Wolf player, but I'll add my two cents. It always seemed to me that a Sternguard heavy force would best represent Deathwatch, with lot of special weapons and wargear. Maybe add in Kantor so they're scoring and therefor more competitve.

This. :) Pretty much the best way to represent Deathwatch, at least if you wish to follow as closely as possible the last available official rules for them from Chapter Approved.

[Brom MKIV]

Greetings brother! I play a deathwatch army using C:GK and I really enjoy the feel of it.

Prior to C:GK I would have agreed with the others but now codex GKs just does it better IMO, especially with the loss of allied inquisitors + retinue. I personally used to like the idea of Kantor and sternguard as deathwatch but outside of sternguard + ironclads there just isnt much to work with so I think the list will get old rather quick.

 

I know you already play GKs but I would still like to give a shout out for our codex, perhaps heavier on the inquisitorial forces then you usual go. Something like this: Xenos inquisitors + henchmen 'retinues' in chimeras, assassin(s), deathwatch dreadnoughts (what I call a twinlinked autocannon + psycannon dread, possibly venerable), stormraven(s), and some deathwatch kill teams (gkss). As far as rules go: Deepstrike is straight across, Justicars = librarians, stormbolters represent true grit, falchions = lightning claws, psycannons = hvy bolters with suspensors, psybolts = special ammo, etc.

Avoid any GK HQs, terminators and probably dreadknights as well (perhaps someone more savvy on DW background can help me here). Obviously modeling is key to using either codex to represent the deathwatch, after which its all down to the feeling of the army when played on the battlefield. In this regard I think our codex can accomplish this for you better overall while still remaining significantly different from your usual GKs army.

 

Anyway if you are used to playing 'pure' GKs then this list will feel like an entirely different army and wont get old half as quickly as a sternguard centric force will. All IMO of course. Good luck and let us know how your army develops.

[Darkchild130]

Brom: Your army mentality is exactly how im building my Deathwatch force.

 

Darkchild

[Brom MKIV]

Good to hear Darkchild I look forward to a list and maybe even some wip pics. :ph34r:

[Brother Paen]

I'm thinking of Pedro Kantor with honor guard in a HB Razorback and three cbt squaded Sternguard sqds with Razorback support. Troops would be 2 scout sniper sqds with Telion in one. For Fast attack I'm thinking Land speeder sqdns . 2x Devastators cbt squaded and a Land Raider for Heavy Sppt. . Haven't worked the points but thats my vision. maybe bump to 3K for Apoc with Vulkan lookin to eradicate some Xenos scum.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Greetings brother! I play a deathwatch army using C:GK and I really enjoy the feel of it.

Prior to C:GK I would have agreed with the others but now codex GKs just does it better IMO, especially with the loss of allied inquisitors + retinue. I personally used to like the idea of Kantor and sternguard as deathwatch but outside of sternguard + ironclads there just isnt much to work with so I think the list will get old rather quick.

 

I know you already play GKs but I would still like to give a shout out for our codex, perhaps heavier on the inquisitorial forces then you usual go. Something like this: Xenos inquisitors + henchmen 'retinues' in chimeras, assassin(s), deathwatch dreadnoughts (what I call a twinlinked autocannon + psycannon dread, possibly venerable), stormraven(s), and some deathwatch kill teams (gkss). As far as rules go: Deepstrike is straight across, Justicars = librarians, stormbolters represent true grit, falchions = lightning claws, psycannons = hvy bolters with suspensors, psybolts = special ammo, etc.

Avoid any GK HQs, terminators and probably dreadknights as well (perhaps someone more savvy on DW background can help me here). Obviously modeling is key to using either codex to represent the deathwatch, after which its all down to the feeling of the army when played on the battlefield. In this regard I think our codex can accomplish this for you better overall while still remaining significantly different from your usual GKs army.

 

Anyway if you are used to playing 'pure' GKs then this list will feel like an entirely different army and wont get old half as quickly as a sternguard centric force will. All IMO of course. Good luck and let us know how your army develops.

 

Using C:GK is in my opinion the easiest way to built a powerful space marine army. However the Inquisitor retinue, assassins etc is a particular play style of C:GK. For my deathwatch I'm looking to a different experience. I play GK more often than any other army I collect and Deathwatch is my chance to start a different army, a completely different army to play when I want give my GK some R&R :)

I see a deathwatch army as an opportunity to buy some space marine models from forge world. There are very interesting rules and scenarios in Imperial Armour books.

 

Beside I want to base my new army on fluff. If I remember correctly Deathwatch is a Space Marine organization whose members are recruited among many chapters: thus they all follow Codex Astastes.

 

Grey Knights employ a completely different military doctrine. I suppose Deathwatch members are not even aware of the GK's existence. The idea of justicar as mini-librarians leading DW Kills Teams is interesting, even though justicar are not mini-librarian, because it will explain the unit's psychic abilities.

I can try to use C:GK to represent DW but I believe the army will appear a GK one. I often use an OX Iquisitor in my GK lists, thus it will look like one variation of my GK armies. Maybe it's just my perception.

Anyway you just gave my some ideas about nex GK lists to play, Battle Brother :woot:

 

I'm a Space Wolf player, but I'll add my two cents. It always seemed to me that a Sternguard heavy force would best represent Deathwatch, with lot of special weapons and wargear. Maybe add in Kantor so they're scoring and therefor more competitve.

This. :D Pretty much the best way to represent Deathwatch, at least if you wish to follow as closely as possible the last available official rules for them from Chapter Approved.

I agree with you, Jonas and Number6: this is the best way to represent DW fluff.

Is there a way to make this concept efficient on the table. You can only deploy 3 Sternguard units and they will force you to avoid anyother elite choice. Kantor will make them scoring but they still occupy an elite slot, if I remember correctly.

Beside if we field every Sternguard equiped only with bolters in order to make good use of special ammo they will lack of anti-tank firepower so I suppose devastators or vehicles are required.

 

Is there any way to make a fluff DW using models and rules from Imperial Armour?

[Hellios]

A logan wing army might also work... Obviously it would require Logan who I guess could be watch master whatshisface in terminator armour and then use Wolf Guard in power armour (although some in terminator would be fine) to represent the DW. With all the special equipment they need for the job... it isn't perfect but neither are sternguard. They are now real troops. (I think)

 

You then have 3 other HQ slots... Wolf Guard battle leaders could be used to represent Kill-team captains and Rune priests could represent Librarians.

 

You then have elites, FA and HS free... Now obviously you want to ignore the really iconic space wolves units or units that make no sense at all. Things like dreads, land speeders and any of the heavy armour would be good... I don't think Long Fangs would be too offensive as fire support if you decided to take them but I'd stay away from all the bloodclaw related units as inexperienced combatant =/= Deathwatch :teehee:

 

--EDIT--

 

Oh like the long fangs... wolf scouts might be cool! However I'm not sure if there is any background fluff to back up these kinds of units... but then again the DW often works in kill-teams rather than whole battle forces... So it wouldn't seem unreasonable to have some dedicated heavy support or the use of lightly armoured (elite!) scouts being used to prepare the trap or waiting in ambush... especially as the whole point of the battle might be to kill a Farseer or something like that... scout assassination squad seems cool to me ;)

[number6]

Is there a way to make this concept efficient on the table. You can only deploy 3 Sternguard units and they will force you to avoid anyother elite choice. Kantor will make them scoring but they still occupy an elite slot, if I remember correctly.

Beside if we field every Sternguard equiped only with bolters in order to make good use of special ammo they will lack of anti-tank firepower so I suppose devastators or vehicles are required.

Remember that you're trying to field a Deathwatch "army", not just a few kill teams. An "army" would definitely require support vehicles, varying degrees of alternate firepower, some assault units, etc. Because a Kantor army gives you scoring sternguard, you only need to take the minimal 2 Troops options and then you can fill out your "Deathwatch Kill Team" support with the rest of the list. You can totally afford to give up all the Elites to Sternguard, that is no hardship to the SM codex. Every force org slot can do anything.

[Aeddon]

To get the best representation of a Deathwatch army you'd probably have to play with Apoc rules and cherry-pick from a few different codicies. I would personally take Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, HQ choices and most vehicles from C:SM for the deathwatch forces; Stormraven from C:BA; Inquisitors and retinue from C:GK; and possibly a couple choices from C:IG as inducted troops.

[jeffersonian000]

The easiet codex to use to model a Deathwatch army is still Codex Space Marines. Take Sternguard as the actual Deathwatch Marines, a Librarians as their Captain, and Scouts as IST. Any of the special characters can stand in as OX inquisitors, and DW always did have access to Dreads and Rhino-based vehicles.

 

SJ

[Cmdr Shepard]

Is there a way to make this concept efficient on the table. You can only deploy 3 Sternguard units and they will force you to avoid anyother elite choice. Kantor will make them scoring but they still occupy an elite slot, if I remember correctly.

Beside if we field every Sternguard equiped only with bolters in order to make good use of special ammo they will lack of anti-tank firepower so I suppose devastators or vehicles are required.

Remember that you're trying to field a Deathwatch "army", not just a few kill teams. An "army" would definitely require support vehicles, varying degrees of alternate firepower, some assault units, etc. Because a Kantor army gives you scoring sternguard, you only need to take the minimal 2 Troops options and then you can fill out your "Deathwatch Kill Team" support with the rest of the list. You can totally afford to give up all the Elites to Sternguard, that is no hardship to the SM codex. Every force org slot can do anything.

 

How do you suggest to equip Sternguard? I would focus on bolters' special ammo and avoid heavy weapons but few combi-melta should be fine. I believe they'll need a dedicated transport of some kind. Drop pod are always alluring but I don't plan to put my sternguard deep behind enemy lines when they can be easly slayed by multiple charges.

What vehicles do you suggest for supporting the main body of the army?

Vanguard veterans should be able to fill the assualt role without using an elite slot (If I remember correctly they are fast support)

 

The choice of troops options renew the famous dilemma: tactical squads or scouts? what do you think.

 

 

To get the best representation of a Deathwatch army you'd probably have to play with Apoc rules and cherry-pick from a few different codicies. I would personally take Sternguard Veterans, Vanguard Veterans, HQ choices and most vehicles from C:SM for the deathwatch forces; Stormraven from C:BA; Inquisitors and retinue from C:GK; and possibly a couple choices from C:IG as inducted troops.

I agree. I was planing to add a DW contigent to my apoc GK army. However apoc games don't take place very often at my local store and I prefer to build a DW themed army I can use in regular games.

In an apoc games I'd try to field at least a couple of Land Raiders Achiles from IA vol. 10. This unit is simply amazing! A Land Raider immune to Lance and Melta rules, with a thunderfire cannon and a couple of TL Multi-Melta.... yes :D

[DinoDoc]

How I would be tempted to do it:

 

HQ: "Watch Captain" Kantor (1#, 175 pts)

1 Chapter Master Pedro Kantor, 175 pts

 

Elite: Veteran "Kill Team" (11#, 370 pts)

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 370 pts (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x4; Lascannon x2)

1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

 

Elite: Veteran "Kill Team" (11#, 370 pts)

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 370 pts (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x4; Lascannon x2)

1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

 

Elite: Veteran "Kill Team" (11#, 370 pts)

9 Sternguard Veteran Squad, 370 pts (Combi-Flamer x1; Combi-Meltagun x4; Lascannon x2)

1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

 

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 235 pts)

9 Tactical Squad, 235 pts (Flamer; Missile Launcher)

1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

 

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 235 pts)

9 Tactical Squad, 235 pts (Flamer; Missile Launcher)

1 Sergeant (Bolt Pistol; Bolter)

1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Flamer)

 

: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (6#, 120 pts)

5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [WH], 120 pts (Meltagun x2)

1 Rhino [WH]

 

: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (6#, 120 pts)

5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [WH], 120 pts (Meltagun x2)

1 Rhino [WH]

 

Total Roster Cost: 1995

[number6]

How do you suggest to equip Sternguard? I would focus on bolters' special ammo and avoid heavy weapons but few combi-melta should be fine. I believe they'll need a dedicated transport of some kind. Drop pod are always alluring but I don't plan to put my sternguard deep behind enemy lines when they can be easly slayed by multiple charges.

What vehicles do you suggest for supporting the main body of the army?

Vanguard veterans should be able to fill the assualt role without using an elite slot (If I remember correctly they are fast support)

Depends entirely on what units you favor. Do you like dreadnoughts? Predators? Razorbacks? Rhinos? Bikes?

 

Just be sure your army has mobility, resilience, and a strong shooting phase along with a strong assault phase. Generally, you can never go wrong by making every unit you take capable of tackling both infantry and armour/MCs. Mostly this means every unit should carry some kind of anti-armour gun (meltas are great choices) and anti-infantry gun (bolters work well enough here). Same with vehicles: make sure they can shoot up both kinds of targets with some level of effectiveness. That way you can lose just about any unit and still not lose important tactical capabilities.

[Warsmith IV]

I'd say Kantor & a Librarian for HQ, 3x Sternguard squads with 1 special weapon for every 5 as elites, 2x tactical squads probably of 5 to save up points for elites and heavys, a Devastator squad with full 4 heavy weapons for heavy support and whatever you have left spend on Dreadnoughts and vehicles. No reason why you shouldn't have Terminators as an alternate option for at least 1 elite slot for games without objectives.

 

Forge World don't have anything specifically Deathwatch, but a FW Dreadnought would make it stand out from generic dreads. If you're prepared to do some symbol-trimming I'd recomend the Black Templars body, or maybe the ironclad. Obviously the Deathwatch conversion pack from GW is pretty important unless you're unbelievably good at sculpting (in which case you should probably apply for a job :P ).

 

Consider making one Sternguard squad with only 9 men, so that Pedro can join them in a Land Raider to get him in with them when they need to assault for those juicy extra attacks. I would suggest fast attack is not really how the Deathwatch operate, but it's a possibility if it suits your play style.

 

Remember to leave the right shoulder pads with former chapter colours, a good excercise in painting chapter symbols if nothing else.

[Cmdr Shepard]

How do you suggest to equip Sternguard? I would focus on bolters' special ammo and avoid heavy weapons but few combi-melta should be fine. I believe they'll need a dedicated transport of some kind. Drop pod are always alluring but I don't plan to put my sternguard deep behind enemy lines when they can be easly slayed by multiple charges.

What vehicles do you suggest for supporting the main body of the army?

Vanguard veterans should be able to fill the assualt role without using an elite slot (If I remember correctly they are fast support)

Depends entirely on what units you favor. Do you like dreadnoughts? Predators? Razorbacks? Rhinos? Bikes?

 

Just be sure your army has mobility, resilience, and a strong shooting phase along with a strong assault phase. Generally, you can never go wrong by making every unit you take capable of tackling both infantry and armour/MCs. Mostly this means every unit should carry some kind of anti-armour gun (meltas are great choices) and anti-infantry gun (bolters work well enough here). Same with vehicles: make sure they can shoot up both kinds of targets with some level of effectiveness. That way you can lose just about any unit and still not lose important tactical capabilities.

 

I don't have a particular preference since I like every SM unit. I'm a Dreads fan but in C:SM they occupy an elite slot. I believe rhinos are useful to assure army's mobility, especially in event of dawn of war deployment, even though I have played without them several times.

Fielding several vehicles is always a wonderful way to make the game more, let's say, "realistic". Sadly vehicles tend to have very hard times due to the proliferation of ant-armour weapons in many lists.

 

I always mix anti-infatry and anti-vehicle weaponery, even when I equip vehicles. Many players suggest to make every unit more "specialized" as possible but there is nothing more frustrating than being unable to counter enemy's action because your units cannot currently engage what they are "specialized" to take care of.

 

Do you have some further advice about the best units to support the sterngaurd "kill teams"?

Devastators or predators/land raiders? Tactical squads or scouts?

 

I'm thinking about using a whirlwind for "horde controll": it should be a valid asset in containing orks and tyranids.

My favourite vehicle is Land Raider Achylles but several players have issues in playing against FW models.

 

I'd say Kantor & a Librarian for HQ, 3x Sternguard squads with 1 special weapon for every 5 as elites, 2x tactical squads probably of 5 to save up points for elites and heavys, a Devastator squad with full 4 heavy weapons for heavy support and whatever you have left spend on Dreadnoughts and vehicles. No reason why you shouldn't have Terminators as an alternate option for at least 1 elite slot for games without objectives.

 

Forge World don't have anything specifically Deathwatch, but a FW Dreadnought would make it stand out from generic dreads. If you're prepared to do some symbol-trimming I'd recomend the Black Templars body, or maybe the ironclad. Obviously the Deathwatch conversion pack from GW is pretty important unless you're unbelievably good at sculpting (in which case you should probably apply for a job :D ).

 

Consider making one Sternguard squad with only 9 men, so that Pedro can join them in a Land Raider to get him in with them when they need to assault for those juicy extra attacks. I would suggest fast attack is not really how the Deathwatch operate, but it's a possibility if it suits your play style.

 

Remember to leave the right shoulder pads with former chapter colours, a good excercise in painting chapter symbols if nothing else.

Sadly Dreadnoughts are elite choices on C:SM, unless we play Master of the Forge, and those slots are needed for sternguard.

I know FW does not have anything specifically Deathatch but there are very interesting models to include in a DW army. The Land Raider Achilles I mention above in one of them. There is also an IA Vol.10 character that allows every infantry, non terminators, models to infiltrate. However there is the ancient quarrel about the use of FW rules.

By the way FW models are wonderful! A DW army could even field them with the orginal chapter symbols.

I strongly agree about the 9 men squad plus Kantor.

[number6]

You could always take a Master of the Forge along with Kantor so you can get Dreads in the Heavy slot. Give him a conversion beamer ... and you've got a reasonable facsimile of the GK codex OX Inquisitor!

 

Most people seem to deploy sternguard in drop pods, but I would want mine mounted in Rhinos. I see lots of possibility for taking large, 10-man units and combat squadding them, stealing Rhinos from other units you include. I just mentioned taking dreads as Heavies, but if you took devastator units, you could buy them transports that just get hijacked by sternguard combat squads. But you could also make use of vehicles bought for Tac squads....

 

Like I said, there are many many ways to crack this nut. I can't say that I have a favorite method myself. (And even if I did, that wouldn't mean it's the "best" way to go about it.) But if you want fleshed out army lists, such discussion would need to be taken to the appropriate subforum.

[jeffersonian000]

Oddly enough, I enjoy running a Librarian with two full Tactical Squads as a Deathwatch Kill Team, mostly as an excuss to field Redeemers. And at only 1,000pts!

 

SJ

[Cmdr Shepard]

You could always take a Master of the Forge along with Kantor so you can get Dreads in the Heavy slot. Give him a conversion beamer ... and you've got a reasonable facsimile of the GK codex OX Inquisitor! <_<

 

Most people seem to deploy sternguard in drop pods, but I would want mine mounted in Rhinos. I see lots of possibility for taking large, 10-man units and combat squadding them, stealing Rhinos from other units you include. I just mentioned taking dreads as Heavies, but if you took devastator units, you could buy them transports that just get hijacked by sternguard combat squads. But you could also make use of vehicles bought for Tac squads....

 

Like I said, there are many many ways to crack this nut. :) I can't say that I have a favorite method myself. (And even if I did, that wouldn't mean it's the "best" way to go about it.) But if you want fleshed out army lists, such discussion would need to be taken to the appropriate subforum.

I saw many players using Drop pods to land sternguard right behind enemy lines just to be wiped out during the first assault phase. I think rhinos would be a better choice.

Did you ever played conversion beamer? I tried once with my GK Tech-Marine and he killed only 3 models, however they were Chaos obliterators :P.

I have noticed GK Tech-Marine is more powerful than C:SM one, putting himself even beyond Master of the Forge levels, except servitors.

 

I'll try to write down the main body of the DW army and I'll post it in the forum you suggested, so I can evolve the list.

Thank You for you advices.

 

Oddly enough, I enjoy running a Librarian with two full Tactical Squads as a Deathwatch Kill Team, mostly as an excuss to field Redeemers. And at only 1,000pts! :)

 

SJ

 

Maybe I'm too accustomed with GK Librarian but the C:SM does not seems so interesting. However the power that forces enemy units to reroll successful save is very nice, sadly it does not influence armour saves.

By the way the Librarian presence is very concordant with fluff.