Sobansa Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Current Thought: Marines of the People Name: Bright Blades Chapter Symbol http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t275/asoban/Untitled.jpg Motto: Sola visum ("by sight alone") Colors: White and Blue Symbols: The Seven Pointed Star, Seven Swords Homeworld: Higarra, Karack Sector, Segmentum Ultima History The Bright Blades were not so much founded as appeared around the time of the Third Founding. Their core leadership all have histories dating to the Great Crusade and their First Chapter Master often spoke longingly of fighting by the Emperor's side. It is assumed that their primarch is Gulliman. However, their histories never mention him by name and instead call him the Primarch. Many of their stories of fighting alongside their Primarch are not found in any other chapter and are completely unique to them. They revere their Primach, but never mention his name just calling him the Primarch. Their more important stories come from the great crusade where their founding officers fought alongside the Emperor and he gave them the seven points. They consider the seven points of the Imperial Truth to be their highest calling given to them by the Emperor himself. They are fanatically devoted to the emperor and the seven points. This often brings them into conflict with the Ecclesiarchy, because of their close contact with the people. However, the Marines when they are doing it are careful not to contradict the teachings of Ecclesiarchy. Blade Brother of the Bright Blades http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t275/asoban/spacemarine2.jpg When the entire chapter gathered together for the first time they were sent to a remote sector to defend it against Orks. The sector contained only thirty nine hive worlds and a single forge world along with the supporting population. A tiny number compared to the size of the empire. However, the sector is of vital importance because it has a massive number of agricultural worlds that feed many hive worlds and fleets. The sector is remote and its connection to the empire tenuous at best. Warp storms often cut the sector off from easy contact with the rest of the galaxy. The only regular contact that they have with the rest of the galaxy is the massive food transports that make the journey out once a year and then back six months later. Their homeworld is near the center of the cluster and also acts as the capital for the sector. They have chosen a different route from most other marine chapters. They consider it a part of their mission to protect is also a mission to inspire the population against the forces that surround them. They are encouraged to go among the population and gauge how they are and to become their personal heroes and teach the seven points when they are not deployed in combat. Many of the marines have the names of locations that they come from or champion engraved on their armor or attached with a seal. A few have even chosen to marry and have children. Although getting in touch with the chapter is a perilous journey from the rest of the empire, within their sector they are easy to find and contact. Chapter Recruit about the Galaxy Because they are in such close contact with the population they protect, they have a great many volunteer to become space marines even though their requirements are brutally tough even by space marine standards. they almost never have to forcibly recruit. This also allows them to select from the best. At each stage in the process they select only the best to continue and the survivors go into the imperial guard or do necessary things for the Chapter. They do not consider a recruit for being a blade brother until he has survived to donate his geneseed for the first time to the chapter. During these five years they are expected to leave the sector and fight on other battlefields. This has lead to the chapter being very varied in it's combat abilities drawing from experiences from all over Imperial Space. They have participated in many famous battles but rarely in anything other then a supporting role to the main battles. Another positive side effect is it's positive relations with many other chapters. However, they are seen by the other chapters as being inexperienced and somewhat expendable so as a whole they are not well regarded. However, they are well known by the populace. Often a world that would otherwise be ignored by the Marines but a blade brother visited there comes under attack they will mount an attack to reclaim the world. This has lead to the chapter being much larger then a normal chapter would be. Despite this, they are spread thinly across their own space and are almost on a breaking point with the requests that come pouring in for their help. They have been in a state of crusade for the last several thousand years. Never a single crusade but multiple ones, often at the same time and overlapping. Because they are spread so thin has also caused them to form a close working relationship with the Imperial Guard. The relationship between the marines and the guard is that the marines use a highly integrated form of combat with a single unit able to be effective against as many opponents as possible. They act until the more specialized guard can take over. Their battle cry is the repeated chanting of the seven points. How a particular blade brother is varying his chant as a form of communication. Imagine each of the points being numbered 1-7 and then having the number, say 734, mean that their being flanked from the right. Seven points of the Imperial Truth as remembered by the Bright Blades 1. Science 2. Truth 3. Humanity 4. Vision 5. Courage 6. Divinity 7. Freedom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Kiwi Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 thats a big chapter (1 million marines what the heck XD) but nice idea making them have a section of the imperium that they defend, just like Ultramar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2782660 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeMeister Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Erm, those figures are just horribly wrong. Where did you get them? Specifically, the number of hive worlds, the number of marines in one Chapter and population of an average Hive World? Â Oh and as for the million-strong Chapter; not even remotely fluff-viable. Sorry. According to GW, there are 1,000 Chapters of 1,000 marines. That makes 1,000,000 marines, right? <<self-explanatory point>> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2782665 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 With regards to the Imperial Guard, at least one tenth of the planet's defense force is pledged to the Imperial Guard, however more may be demanded based on size/need. Your .75% to the Guard would place that world 11th in the list of countries with the largest military per population (at 7.5%). Â Number of imperial guard per marine: 100,000 guard to 1 marine (this is a much lower ratio then I'm personally comfortable with I would prefer to have a ratio lower then to 1000 to 1.) But that is the background. Space Marines are extremely rare - they are legends. To most Imperial Citizens they don't really exist. It is like us talking about ancient mythological figures - Astartes are numbered about 1 for each planet. If you are not comfortable with this, well, then that is the background. It is okay for you to change the background in your own little stories, but by posting it here you are going to get some stiff criticism. It is like me saying "I am not comfortable with the existance of the Nids so I'm just going to ignore that fact." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2782694 Share on other sites More sharing options...
soddinnutter Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The numbers, they burn. Â but in all seriousness 1,000,000+ marines is not a Chapter, it's a Legion the likes of which has not been seen since the Ultramarines of the Great Crusade. Â The =I= gets all grumpy about the Black Tempelars having 6 - 9,000 members spread very thinly across the entirety of the Galactic Disc and they only get away with it through a combination of creative interpretation of Rogal Dorn's orders, the prestige of being 2nd Founding and being spread so thin it's hard to notice exactly how many of them there are. Â Have them have close ties to the Guard stationed on the worlds of their protectorate, by all means, it adds to the character of them. Give them multiple systems to defend, rule and recruit from, it puts in place the possibility of some in-chapter revelries and feuds that add depth. Â A chapter might be easy to employ 1,000,000+ people, but that's very different. In that number you have the garrison force, the reserves, the tenders of the armory, the smiths of the forge, the sailors of your barge, the enginseers of the motor-pool, the people who sweep the floor and dust the relics, the cog-heads whose job it is to keep the Dreadnaughts company, Navigators and Astropaths on loan from their respective institutes, people to man the recruitment posts... the lists go on and on and on. This is assuming that your chapter is one of the puritan ones that does not make use of servitors. Â Consider that in the book Sons of Dorn just over 2,000 young men were taken from a single world. 3 of those made it to the Scout stage. This was considered quite good going. The Imperial Fists are not the most brutal of chapters. Â Also the 7 points of the chapter is a good concept. But Science? Freedom? In the Imperium? Â Scientific Sorcery has led to such horrors as the Men of Iron, the Blood Tide and the Ganymede being made uninhabitable. Now there is no progress that is not blessed by the Machine God of Mars, nothing not derived from the Holy STC databases of the ancestors. And don't even go near the freedom. That leads to Chaos. The Imperium never even pretends to be in favor of freedom. It just promises you that, by the sacrifices you all must endure, humanity might not go extinct. Not this millennium anyway. Â Also, Wall o' Text. Â maybe they are tying to recreate a 2nd Ultramar in another part of the galaxy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2782708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 Specifically, the number of hive worlds, the number of marines in one Chapter and population of an average Hive World? Â Number of worlds, Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition Rulebook, P. 115 Number of marines per chapter, math based on mostly reasonable estimates. Population of the average hive world, from this site and a bit of personal beefing. I tend towards the higher numbers for hive worlds based on the math. Hive planets hold between one hundred and five hundred billion people. Â Â With regards to the Imperial Guard, at least one tenth of the planet's defense force is pledged to the Imperial Guard, however more may be demanded based on size/need. Your .75% to the Guard would place that world 11th in the list of countries with the largest military per population (at 7.5%). I'm not sure what you are saying, can you give me some cites? I used the American military as a comparison and we have about .5% in the military. (~1.5 million to defend ~300 million) Â A chapter might be easy to employ 1,000,000+ people, but that's very different. In that number you have the garrison force, the reserves, the tenders of the armory, the smiths of the forge, the sailors of your barge, the enginseers of the motor-pool, the people who sweep the floor and dust the relics, the cog-heads whose job it is to keep the Dreadnaughts company, Navigators and Astropaths on loan from their respective institutes, people to man the recruitment posts... the lists go on and on and on. This is assuming that your chapter is one of the puritan ones that does not make use of servitors. Â I'm talking about actual marines here. Those who have all the implants wear armor train and go fight. Â Consider that in the book Sons of Dorn just over 2,000 young men were taken from a single world. 3 of those made it to the Scout stage. This was considered quite good going. The Imperial Fists are not the most brutal of chapters. Thanks for this number I'm going to include it in my next calculation. (see below)Â After feedback, a recalculation of the number of marines. Â Average hive world population: 300 billion (The middle of 100 billion and 500 billion) Percentage in the imperial guard: .5% (United states is about .46% if anything this number is low considering the grimdark) Number of imperial guard per hive world: 1.5 billion Percentage of the imperial guard numbers recruited into space marines (comparison), 1% number of recruits it takes to train a marine: 1 marine per 1000 recruits. Number of marines per hive world: 15,000 Number of Hive Worlds: 39 (Not including the forge world or any other support worlds this may increase the number of hive equivalent worlds up to the forties to fifties) Number of marines: 585,000 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783043 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I'm not sure what you are saying, can you give me some cites? I used the American military as a comparison and we have about .5% in the military. (~1.5 million to defend ~300 million) The Imperial Guard codex says that each planet is tasked with raising an army for its own defence (the PDF), this can range from an actual military to tribes. Of that PDF, 10% (at least) is drafted into the Imperial Guard to fight elsewhere. You've got .75% in the Imperial Guard, meaning the PDF is ten times this number so 7.5% of the population. Only using Wiki for numbers, and sorting the list by Total per 1000 Capitia (as a lot of PDF will be like Reserves), you can see North Korea has the highest at 418.9 per 1000 (so 41.8%), your 7.5% lands them strangely between Lebanon and Finland. USA is .79% Â Number of marines: 585,000 In one chapter? That is the same number that is in 585 chapters and over half of the marine population...in one chapter? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 Ok now for the fluffy parts. Although my numbers are shocking their not that important. I just want to hammer some sense of scale into them. Â They are based on the Imperial Truth as they remember it. Â Science is the belief in the cold clarity of logic and science spread by the Emperor's command during the great crusade. Truth is a springs from the science. It's the basis of science and getting clarity. Humanity springs from the other major teaching of the Imperial Truth, that humanity must fill the galaxy with no room for aliens. Divinity is the belief specifically that it does not exist, this also springs from the previous point and has been modified over the years to be if anyone is a god it is the Emperor and there is none but him. Courage is required to fight against the enemies of humanity. Vision is required to see what can be and to strive for it. Freedom is there because without freedom every other point will fall flat on it's face. Â Â Seven points of the Imperial Truth as remembered by the Bright Blades 1. Science 2. Truth 3. Humanity 4. Divinity (Officially the non existence of such for anyone other then the emperor. Although among themselves it includes the emperor.) 5. Courage 6. Vision 7. Freedom Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783068 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 The Imperial Guard codex says that each planet is tasked with raising an army for its own defence (the PDF), this can range from an actual military to tribes. Of that PDF, 10% (at least) is drafted into the Imperial Guard to fight elsewhere. You've got .75% in the Imperial Guard, meaning the PDF is ten times this number so 7.5% of the population. Only using Wiki for numbers, and sorting the list by Total per 1000 Capitia (as a lot of PDF will be like Reserves), you can see North Korea has the highest at 418.9 per 1000 (so 41.8%), your 7.5% lands them strangely between Lebanon and Finland. USA is .79% Â ah I see. I was using the active duty numbers. Thanks for the clarification. I'm recalculating my numbers. Â In one chapter? That is the same number that is in 585 chapters and over half of the marine population...in one chapter? If the numbers can support it, yes. Â Average hive world population: 300 billion (The middle of 100 billion and 500 billion) Percentage in the local defense force: .5% (United states is about .5% if anything this number is low considering the grimdark.) Percentage of local defense force in the imperial guard: 10% Number of imperial guard per hive world: 150 million. Percentage of the imperial guard numbers recruited into space marines (comparison), 1% number of recruits it takes to train a marine: 1 marine per 1000 recruits. Number of marines per hive world: 1,500 Number of Hive Worlds: 39 (Not including the forge world or any other support worlds this may increase the number of hive equivalent worlds up to the forties to fifties) Number of marines: 58,500 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I still believe that the process of recruiting a Space Marine to be to brutal and deadly to support such numbers... I'd say, if they can gather potentially 100 recruits... Half of those are going to fail the Basic tests, whether in physical strength, genetic purity, whatever... Leaving about 50... So, those fifty then get to undergo the honor of severe genetic manipulation... And begin dropping... Let's say, 20 die off because their bodies and minds just Cannot take the stress and horror of becoming a superhuman... Those who survive, are Also undergoing training as Scouts, and are being pushed into vicious combat zones... Let's say 20 more are killed fighting in the Chapter's service... That's leaving 10 to receieve their power armor, and becoming full fledged Brothers of the Chapter... Â I have never imagined a Chapter's recruiting process to never let more than 10-15-, to maybe 20 or 25 into the Chapter at any given time... It's just to dangerous, and brutal... It's why Chapters take so long to recover after particularly brutal campagins... Â 58,000 depends... Have there BEEN 59,000 Marines int he Chapter's entire Existance... I could actually see that... They record every name... :whistling: ... But 50,000 Marines active at one time is highly improbable... The Black Templars have, like an estimated 10,000 and they're all over the dang place, north, south, east, west, on the fringes of the Imperium... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783136 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 I still believe that the process of recruiting a Space Marine to be to brutal and deadly to support such numbers  one in a thousand don't make it from recruit(selected for first implant) to marine. (having all implants and fighting). From your example of 100 recruits all of them are likely to die/get mangled too much/not selected to keep going etc.  The 58,000 is the snapshot at one point in time given the numbers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783164 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaplainMathreyn Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 And yet 58,000 is still impossible... Â But... It's your Chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783193 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Ok now for the fluffy parts. Although my numbers are shocking their not that important. I just want to hammer some sense of scale into them. If the numbers are not that important, then I would advise against it. What does it add to the chapter's character? As you can see, everybody will just look at the amount of marines and argue about that, rather than the really important part of the chapter which is their character or more simply, 'why'? Â If the numbers can support it, yes. Remember 40k is not built on common sense. It's built on sci-fi fantasy with a large helping of Grimdark and is ruled by the Rule of Cool. We know chapters are a 1000 demi-gods. You need to come up with a good reason to get over people's prejudices. Â Having a chapter with more than half the marines in existence doesn't fit into the universe for a number of reasons. Â The first reason is the devaluation of the Astartes as the mythological Angels of Death. They only need 1 or 2 marines per a planet in the Imperium because that's all that's needed. That's how good they are, at least in the eyes of the Imperium. It also goes against the idea that the Astartes' recruitment is extremely hard. Â The second reason is that it doesn't fit with the paranoid nature of the Imperium. The last time there were over 50 000 marines in a single group, there was the biggest civil war the Imperium's had and those marines were lead by the Sons of the Emperor. The Inquisition is worried by Astartes merely having ships built for Naval combat. They would literally have a fit if there was a chapter with over 50 000 marines and do everything in their power to rectify it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 You have a point. Edited post. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2783423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Kiwi Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Ha! i just noticed the chapter symbol is a seven pointed star :) Kinda like the mark of chaos undivided ? XD im just joking i assume the seven pointed star matches with their seven points Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2784032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobansa Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Ok, Major update and rewrite. I need some help with the seven points because I want them to be handed down to them by the emperor but still mesh with the mainstream Ecclesiarchy. Also, their being both inside and outside I'm not sure if I've explained it well. Any way, read and review. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231344-outdated-bright-blades/#findComment-2785970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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