stuckinbermuda Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 On page 75 first paragraph of the SM codex it states "As a result , each can be used as a mobile firebase, assault transport or stealth insertion craft as the combat objectives dictate." emphasis mine. The vehicle is open topped so occupants (restriction only five scouts) can assault out of it. It has a specific piece of wargear built in to aid in assaulting out of it. questions: if the LS Storm deep strikes, it can still shoot since moving at cruising speed, the scouts can disembark since it is open topped and the scouts are free to shoot but are they allowed to choose to pass on shooting and run? The Speeder has deployed onto the table by DS then when the scouts disembark (their movement which is not allowed by DSing units?) they are a separate unit that does not have the DS rule so are they still restricted to the DS restriction of no assault? I have done a lot of searching on this topic and it is still not very clear to me, and I'm going by the page 75 reference to it being an assault transport (I'm assuming like/similar to a Land Raider Assault Vehicle rule) since the occupants are allowed to assault out of it, and not just because of it being open topped but has extra assault wargear kinda like a Crusader. It seems that either they can not shoot out of it that turn it Deep Strikes since they moved at cruising speed and they cannot disembark because that would be movement which a deep striking unit cannot do OR it is that they can get out as movement, shoot or run and then assault due to being a separate unit without DS rule and a disembarking assault rule because they can disembark because it is open topped. Just seems very confusing and there has to be a FAQ about this somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meatman Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 The scouts inside count as deep striking too, so they cannot assault, they can run though if they disembark. Think Dread in a pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 No need for any FAQ; the BRB answers all your questions very clearly in the section on deep striking (Page 95). In the Movement phase when they arrive, these units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking transport vehicle In that turn's Assault phase, however, these units may not launch an assault (even if they have the 'fleet' special rule), unless clearly stated in their special rules (I'm assuming like/similar to a Land Raider Assault Vehicle rule) since the occupants are allowed to assault out of it, and not just because of it being open topped but has extra assault wargear kinda like a Crusader Don't make assumptions like that; if the vehicle rules don't say it has a piece of wargear/special rule, then it doesn't have that wargear/rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeattleDV8 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 if the LS Storm deep strikes, it can still shoot since moving at cruising speed, Yes it can, as it is a 'fast' vehicle. the scouts can disembark since it is open topped The scouts may disembark ,only 'Flat Out' would stop that and the scouts are free to shoot but are they allowed to choose to pass on shooting and run? Yes and yes The Speeder has deployed onto the table by DS then when the scouts disembark (their movement which is not allowed by DSing units?) they are a separate unit that does not have the DS rule so are they still restricted to the DS restriction of no assault? I have done a lot of searching on this topic and it is still not very clear to me, and I'm going by the page 75 reference to it being an assault transport (I'm assuming like/similar to a Land Raider Assault Vehicle rule) BRB FAQ "Q: Does a unit being transported by a vehicle that has arrived by Deep Stike that turn also count as having arrived by Deep Strike? (p95) A: Yes." since the occupants are allowed to assault out of it, and not just because of it being open topped but has extra assault wargear kinda like a Crusader. It seems that either they can not shoot out of it that turn it Deep Strikes since they moved at cruising speed and they cannot disembark because that would be movement which a deep striking unit cannot do OR it is that they can get out as movement, shoot or run and then assault due to being a separate unit without DS rule and a disembarking assault rule because they can disembark because it is open topped. NO, it doesn't matter if the vehicle is an assault vehicle or open topped the rules for Deep Striking disallow assaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinbermuda Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 I hope they make a change for this unit in the future, or allow the scouts aboard to carry special weapons (since they can take a heavy if they wanted to). The DS rule for this unit is nerfed imho by no special weapons except the sergeant if he takes a combi-weapon. Disembarking and shooting off BPs and maybe a one shot melta is not worth the risk if they cannot use the special assault gear built in, might as well not have added the DS rule to it except that it is a speeder. To get the benefit of the assault wargear the scouts would need to sit in the vehicle for a turn after DSing, at the earliest a turn three assault. By turn three a Storm that had started on the field could have positioned itself anywhere on the table and also would have had the chance to do some damage shooting those turns and drawing fire. Just an argument that it needs something more and if it had a viable DS role it would be a lot more useful than currently, just giving it a special rule to actually make it DS assault vehicle and allowing scouts special weapons (at least flamer/melta/plasma since even a guardsman can have those). This unit would see a lot more use (sales) if the scouts could assault out of it after DSing and make it more than just a "flavor unit". There is real danger in DSing close enough to assault something so I feel it would still be balanced and it is restricted to just the five scouts which are really likely to die in one round anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Stuck - I think they did throw DS in as a rule for the unit simply because it's a speeder. As you've pointed out, with all the special rules the LSS has it doesn't make much sense to DS the unit. Outflank is more reliable, and if at all possible starting off on the board is best. I wouldn't say that the varying effectiveness of the DS rule makes it not an assault transport - it still very much is. It's just that DS in and of itself is a suboptimal deployment mechanism (unless aided by wargear or a special rule). It's definitely not "just a flavor unit" in my book - it's a very useful unit thanks to scout+fast skimmer+opentopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chengar Qordath Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Stuck - I think they did throw DS in as a rule for the unit simply because it's a speeder. As you've pointed out, with all the special rules the LSS has it doesn't make much sense to DS the unit. Outflank is more reliable, and if at all possible starting off on the board is best. I wouldn't say that the varying effectiveness of the DS rule makes it not an assault transport - it still very much is. It's just that DS in and of itself is a suboptimal deployment mechanism (unless aided by wargear or a special rule). It's definitely not "just a flavor unit" in my book - it's a very useful unit thanks to scout+fast skimmer+opentopped. Seconded. Deep Strike is not the only way to use a Storm, or even a particularly good way. For some advice on how to use a Storm effectively, check the follwing threads http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=231305 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=199557 http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=155519 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptinLoken Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 As it would be interesting to see... ... I would have enjoyed having scouts with drop-pods for this very reason... It would make for some different style of ... infiltrate/scout move or Deepstrike in with marines at the same time.... EVERY freaken computer game has done it...but the table top has walked on ignoring it. /rant... It is useful in missions where the cheapest unit is a target ... to deep strike LSS. This comes from the little fact they are 50pts and end up being the hit least for this mission every time. As the crew here has mentioned Outflanking or Scout moving this vehicle is its powersuit. The DS is only given because it is possible. Maybe in a Apoc game or the like... that translates to scouts being able to rapid drop in and aid a unit 10 feet into the center of the board. While we are on the topic of LSS ... I am still sad they didn't just in large the thing to have 10 scouts able to ride this thing. I actually kit bashed 3 LSS together and took the scouts it comes with and was able to stick about 8 scouts on it safely on it. Pictures if you don't ...trust me ... // they also need better anti tank gun then PF/CMG ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Tactics in the +TACTICA ASTARTES+ please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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