chaos dreadnoughts

[khurdur]

I know I'm flogging a dead horse, but how do you play chaos dreadnoughts with regard to the fire

frenzy rule? The codex states that it pivots to the nearest visible unit and shoots twice. It is ambiguous,

but looking at page 16 of the rulebook it states LOS is the model's eyes, so it is only in front of the model,

soooo the dread simply sees somethintg in its forward arc and pivots toward it. At least that's my take on

it.

 

How does everyone else play dreads? Has anyone been to a tourny with them/or called GW and

gotten some official ruling? Because they could be useful w/ML and AC.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I know I'm flogging a dead horse, but how do you play chaos dreadnoughts with regard to the fire

frenzy rule? The codex states that it pivots to the nearest visible unit and shoots twice. It is ambiguous,

but looking at page 16 of the rulebook it states LOS is the model's eyes, so it is only in front of the model,

soooo the dread simply sees somethintg in its forward arc and pivots toward it. At least that's my take on

it.

 

How does everyone else play dreads? Has anyone been to a tourny with them/or called GW and

gotten some official ruling? Because they could be useful w/ML and AC.

 

There's still no official answer on this. Some stores near me use one interpretation, some use the other. Trying to argue for either position fails, as the people in power at the store don't care about the logical breakdown of the argument. It's a shame, because it makes the difference between one of the most iconic and characterful chaos units being barely usable rather than totally terrible.

[chillin]

If yoiu go by the example of LoS for dread in the rule book, he can only see in a 90 arc from infront of him. It's the word "pivot" that causes the problems, b/c ppl can say he pivots all around then sees. But RAW says he sees first then pivots toward what he sees, there fore he would only pivot toward what he has already seen in his 90 field of vision. But good luck convincing someone that who has already made up his mind that it is the other way round. You're right, the wording is ambiguous.

[the jeske]

problem with rules being writen under a different edition.

[Chimerical]

Since it was written for 4th Ed rules, I think the intention was for it to pivot towards the closest target within a full 360 degrees. But a RAW argument under 5th Ed inclines me towards the 'Line of Sight' interpretation. It's funny that most people let you play with the latter interpretation while most non-chaos players on the internet will argue strenuously against it.

 

I know it's petty, but I would get so much satisfaction if I could punch Gav Thorpe in the balls for every time I'm made to think about Fire Frenzy.

[Warsmith IV]

My solution: Don't use a Chaos Dreadnought. I hate Chaos Dreadnought's rules and fluff in the codex with a passion. Luckily, when I play Iron Warriors I ask nicely and most people let me use an Ironclad from C:SM instead, which I feel suits the Iron Warriors much better.

[Shas'o R'Vre]

My solution: Don't use a Chaos Dreadnought.

This. Just consign your Dread to the pile of models not to use till next edition. The rules query comes up over and over and the truth is that there IS no answer (or at least, official ruling)

[Kevlarshark]

My solution: Don't use a Chaos Dreadnought. I hate Chaos Dreadnought's rules and fluff in the codex with a passion. Luckily, when I play Iron Warriors I ask nicely and most people let me use an Ironclad from C:SM instead, which I feel suits the Iron Warriors much better.

 

Because all the other elite choices are super awesome, right? ;)

 

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC keep em close together and if you get fire frenzy shoot frag into the other dred...

laugh as the frag bounce harmlessly off the other dred...then carry on as normal.

 

I find them quite useful for 'ending' anti infantry type 'deathstar' units or generally creating havoc.

 

edit - cant spell

[the jeske]

ok . how is shoting at your own unit and doing nothing , for 100+pts considered good and how do 2 , even fully functional RL , stop a death start unit , considering that our dreads A can deal with hidden fists or 2d6 pen and B have both a low number of shots and even fewer Attacks in hth. Could you explain the tactic more precise ?

[Shas'o R'Vre]

My solution: Don't use a Chaos Dreadnought. I hate Chaos Dreadnought's rules and fluff in the codex with a passion. Luckily, when I play Iron Warriors I ask nicely and most people let me use an Ironclad from C:SM instead, which I feel suits the Iron Warriors much better.

 

Because all the other elite choices are super awesome, right? B)

Well, they're better than a dread.

 

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC keep em close together and if you get fire frenzy shoot frag into the other dred...

laugh as the frag bounce harmlessly off the other dred...then carry on as normal.

Never understood how taking an overcosted weapon to counter shooting your own guys and wasting the potential of Blood Frenzy being an asset works, and I never will.

 

I find them quite useful for 'ending' anti infantry type 'deathstar' units or generally creating havoc.

Then your opponents kit their deathstars badly.

[Brother Nihm]

To give an example of a fairly common Deathstar around my local club:

 

Tyrant/Swarmlord /w guards and a Tyranid Prime attached.

 

Now I cannot see a Chaos Dread, or even two Dreads, being able to scratch that with either shooting or in melee (9/10 it will get wrecked before getting its attacks).

[Drudge Dreadnought]

To be fair, there are plenty of elite MeQ deathstar units that are going to have trouble with a dread. For example, Dante+Sanguinary Guard+Priest/Librarian would probably have either just a single fist. (The librarian may well have Sword though, but he'll get smushed and the unit is 4-6 times the price of the dread.)

 

The best loadout for chaos dreads is really dual close combat weapons. Their 3 base attacks and cheaper point cost are what you should play to. Don't use guns (especially double guns) unless you know your terrain will allow you to keep the rest of your army hidden from the dread (works great on some urban, building heavy maps with lots of fire lanes.)

[Slayer le Boucher]

Best way i found to use them.

 

Use them with Dreadclaws pods!,send them behind your opponent line and watch the havoc...

 

Or use the Refuse Flank tactics by putting the whole army at one side of the board and the Dreads on the other side.

[Hellios]

My solution: Don't use a Chaos Dreadnought. I hate Chaos Dreadnought's rules and fluff in the codex with a passion. Luckily, when I play Iron Warriors I ask nicely and most people let me use an Ironclad from C:SM instead, which I feel suits the Iron Warriors much better.

 

Because all the other elite choices are super awesome, right? ;)

 

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC keep em close together and if you get fire frenzy shoot frag into the other dred...

laugh as the frag bounce harmlessly off the other dred...then carry on as normal.

 

I find them quite useful for 'ending' anti infantry type 'deathstar' units or generally creating havoc.

 

edit - cant spell

 

One rushes forward from rage (or whatever... now the rear armour faces the other...) who gets fire frenzy... and then the 6 start coming! OH YEAH!

 

To be honest chaos dreads wouldn't be that bad if the rules where clear... and it was stuff in front of you... so you can keep people safe behind... and if chaos had drop pods...

 

However dreads as they are now cause rules arguments... They might not shoot what you want (even shooting twice sucks if you fire your lascannontwice at a unit of grots) which is bad if you use it for AT or TEQ killing... It might stand and shoot which is bad if it is a dedicated combat dread... Frenzy... bad early on if you need the fire support and bad later in the game if you want it to sit on an objective.

 

Being able to choose between fire frenzy and rage (when you role a crazed result) would make a huge difference while still making them a bit unpredictable... Drop pods would also make a difference as you could put them in a place where they will be able to hurt the enemy (whatever they role) although they might need to survive a turn first.

[chillin]

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC keep em close together and if you get fire frenzy shoot frag into the other dred...

laugh as the frag bounce harmlessly off the other dred...then carry on as normal.

 

Do you laugh as the ML bounce harmlessly off your opponents stuff too ??

I never understood the idea of taking a weapon that almost harmless to your opponent, so it will be harmless when it shoots you too.

"IF" you are going to use dreads, either A- take the PC or TL'ed AC and take your chances or B- take 2 DCCW's

Taking the rather useless ML never made sense to me.

Not too mention, shooting you own stuff is not even the biggest prob with gone crazy, it's the not being able to control the dreads movement 33% of the time.

[Hellios]

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC keep em close together and if you get fire frenzy shoot frag into the other dred...

laugh as the frag bounce harmlessly off the other dred...then carry on as normal.

 

Do you laugh as the ML bounce harmlessly off your opponents stuff too ??

I never understood the idea of taking a weapon that almost harmless to your opponent, so it will be harmless when it shoots you too.

"IF" you are going to use dreads, either A- take the PC or TL'ed AC and take your chances or B- take 2 DCCW's

Taking the rather useless ML never made sense to me.

Not too mention, shooting you own stuff is not even the biggest prob with gone crazy, it's the not being able to control the dreads movement 33% of the time.

 

missile has two modes of fire... so you fire anti-infantry mode against your own vehicles and then select the suitable fire mode when targetting the enemy.

[BlkTom]

To be fair, there are plenty of elite MeQ deathstar units that are going to have trouble with a dread. For example, Dante+Sanguinary Guard+Priest/Librarian would probably have either just a single fist. (The librarian may well have Sword though, but he'll get smushed and the unit is 4-6 times the price of the dread.)

 

The best loadout for chaos dreads is really dual close combat weapons. Their 3 base attacks and cheaper point cost are what you should play to. Don't use guns (especially double guns) unless you know your terrain will allow you to keep the rest of your army hidden from the dread (works great on some urban, building heavy maps with lots of fire lanes.)

 

 

+1

[the jeske]

missile has two modes of fire... so you fire anti-infantry mode against your own vehicles and then select the suitable fire mode when targetting the enemy.

and you do understand that with 2RL each having a 1/3 chance to go crazy and not shot the opponent , with the hightened resiliance of tanks and cover+4 in 5thed you need 12 or more RL class shots per turn for them not to bounce off ? it has nothing to do with modes of fire .

[chillin]

missile has two modes of fire... so you fire anti-infantry mode against your own vehicles and then select the suitable fire mode when targetting the enemy.

 

I know a ML has two modes of fire, everyone knows that. I also know that even shooting krak a ML needs a 5 just to glance front armor of a pred. It needs a 4 to pen a rino; an AC needs a 5 but with an AC you get two TL'ed shots. using frag against hoards it drifts, even if you get the template on there it still only hits 3 if opponent has models spaced correctly, then it's str.4, the HB is str. 5 direct fire and TL'ed.

So the MM is WAY better vs hvy armor, a ML is pretty much useless vs hvy armor. An AC is much better at popping rinos then a ML. A HB is better vs hoards then a ML. And a PC is better vs meq's then an ML. 2 CCW's means you don't shoot yourself and get xtra attack in CC. A ML is truely a jack-of-no-trades weapon.

[Hellios]

missile has two modes of fire... so you fire anti-infantry mode against your own vehicles and then select the suitable fire mode when targetting the enemy.

 

I know a ML has two modes of fire, everyone knows that. I also know that even shooting krak a ML needs a 5 just to glance front armor of a pred. It needs a 4 to pen a rino; an AC needs a 5 but with an AC you get two TL'ed shots. using frag against hoards it drifts, even if you get the template on there it still only hits 3 if opponent has models spaced correctly, then it's str.4, the HB is str. 5 direct fire and TL'ed.

So the MM is WAY better vs hvy armor, a ML is pretty much useless vs hvy armor. An AC is much better at popping rinos then a ML. A HB is better vs hoards then a ML. And a PC is better vs meq's then an ML. 2 CCW's means you don't shoot yourself and get xtra attack in CC. A ML is truely a jack-of-no-trades weapon.

I'm sorry that you are unable to roll 6's... my bad :devil: I never said the missile launcher was the best option... but it isn't bad in itself... maybe if it was cheaper... Oh also if you can't get your enemy to clump up at least some of the time you may well be doing it wrong :devil:

[Drudge Dreadnought]

A ~100 point unit that fires 1 missile a turn and is often uncontrollable or shoots your own units is never going to make its points back unless it gets into close combat with it's DCCW. And then, you may as well have taken double CCWs for an extra attack there.

[Xenith]

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC

 

Pretty sure that they cannot take ML+DCCW. You swap the DCCW for the ML, then are disallowed from swapping the main weapon for another DCCW.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC

 

Pretty sure that they cannot take ML+DCCW. You swap the DCCW for the ML, then are disallowed from swapping the main weapon for another DCCW.

 

You can. Read the section again. The Chaos dread doesn't even come with a main weapon.

[Wichrun]

...

The best loadout for chaos dreads is really dual close combat weapons. Their 3 base attacks and cheaper point cost are what you should play to. Don't use guns (especially double guns) unless you know your terrain will allow you to keep the rest of your army hidden from the dread (works great on some urban, building heavy maps with lots of fire lanes.)

+1

+1

I've tested various dred builds in small fights and big battles and +1 dccw is the best option. If I have spare points I give him extra armour and sometimes heavy flamer. That's the most effective build. Such dred provides good backup for prince on foot.

[Kristoff]

I use two at a time armed with missile launchers and DCC

 

Pretty sure that they cannot take ML+DCCW. You swap the DCCW for the ML, then are disallowed from swapping the main weapon for another DCCW.

 

You can. Read the section again. The Chaos dread doesn't even come with a main weapon.

 

Correct. It comes with a DCCW with attached TL Bolter which then can be swapped for a ML, you must then add on one from a laundry list.