RAS and DoA

[prenelf]

Hello all, im just wondering what do ye think is the best number of ras in a doa list at the moment i have 3x10 man squads, 1x10 man VV, 5 sanguinary guard, Dante, libby and 2 SP's. Do ye think this is a good number of bodies? or is it to few?

[daboarder]

2 full units at 1500 or lower, 1750 is a touchy place in that sometimes I run 3x10 sometimes I run 2. anything above is 3x10man units and at 2500 I'd throw in a 4th one. At points between 1750-2500 other units do their job better and bigger vanguard/DC squads means that your enemy wont care too much about them due to target priority.

 

Edit: personally above 1750 I like the 1-2 punch of deep striking and popping transports with RAS ans then Assaulting whats in side with VV before they can react....my opponents on the other hand well....

[Cpt. Blood Donator]

2 full units at 1500 or lower, 1750 is a touchy place in that sometimes I run 3x10 sometimes I run 2. anything above is 3x10man units and at 2500 I'd throw in a 4th one. At points between 1750-2500 other units do their job better and bigger vanguard/DC squads means that your enemy wont care too much about them due to target priority.

 

That's how I roll too. RAS are nice and all, but I wan't my big bad power-weapon wielding freaks which make me lose half of my games. But points must be left for the golden nipples.

[Gv0zD]

At 1500 it's 2x10 men RAS, 10 men VV, 5 HG. At 2000 I'd run 2x10 men RAS and one 5 men RAS, and would probably take second HQ to get another HG.

[AbusePuppy]

At least 25 ASM at 1500, agreed. Min 30ish at 1750, 35+ at 1850, and 40+ at 2K.

 

I wouldn't run VV as 10man squad, split it into two 5man (for the extra sarge.)

 

Dante doesn't really belong in a DoA list, as Sang Guard don't benefit much from DSing in, since they can't assault on the drop. Run with just a Libby instead, they're cheap and super-effective. I wouldn't run a second HQ below 1850, there's too many other things to buy, like Honor Guard.

 

DoA lists win by swamping the enemy with hard to kill bodies (3+/FNP) that can win most fights on the charge. To do that you need a bunch of guys, more than your enemy can easily take down, so you're going to be investing a lot in your troop squads.

[daboarder]

Unless you run glaive encarmines, they'res no point to running 10 VV as 2 squads of 5. It costs EXACTLY the same number of points as a 10 man squad and you lose a huge amount of tactical flexibility during your games as with 10 you can decide to combat squad them OR keep them at 10 strong. 10 men units also means that you roll on the reserve chart once not twice, all your VV show up together and in Killpoint missions it nets you the advantage of giving up a kill point less if you want it too. If however you want to run 6-7 then your going to need the 2 squads.

 

Not to mention if you need long range support this set up lets you be mean and take 2 land speeder typhoon squads.

 

Dante can very much have a spot in a DOA list for 2 reasons.

1) there are a number of armored targets out there that completely ruin a DOA army's day, such as night spinners and land raiders,Vindicator, dark eldar fliers. Dante means that you can nuke these threats with 3 guaranteed melta shots on the turn you arrive, pair this with VV and you can also assault whatever is inside without it getting to charge/shoot you.

2) DOA suffer against deathstars, and most of those rely on one ubber character and support. Dante's mask and its awesome gimp ability can both psychological screw with your opponent and also make uber characters take a free wound. that rule alone is worth the points difference between Dante and his number one contender Astorath.

[AbusePuppy]

Actually there is one important difference: two squads of VV will get two separate reserve rolls to enter, which makes it all but guaranteed (94%) that one of them will come in on T2 with the mass of your forces. If you have one squad of ten, you have a 75% chance to get "both" 5mans (assuming you split it, which you almost always should). Since you often need to rely on your VV to disrupt enemy shooting the turn you arrive, I would rather have the better odds of getting at least one of them.

 

There's also the rather minor issue of the Sarge potentially being different for wound allocation purposes, but that's not a big deal.

 

I don't think Typhoons are a very good choice for a DoA army- they're an easy target for all those S5/6/7 shots that we otherwise shrug off so easily, so they're likely to be downed pretty much as soon as they appear. I think Devastators, despite breaking the "purity" of the force, are a much better complement- they offer solutions to many of the units that jumper armies otherwise struggle with and can be extremely tough if you sit a Priest nearby.

 

With regards to Dante, I've seen a lot of people advocate him, but I'm not a fan. He costs as much as two Librarians and is not really all that frightening in a fight- no slouch, to be sure, but most other hero-level guys will be able to take him unless you Mask them down- and for some (Nob Bikerz, Swarmlord, Mephiston, etc) that won't even be an option. Moreover, if you really want a tool against deathstars, Librarians with Fear the Darkness will usually be more effective- very few deathstars are fearless and forcing several morale checks at a penalty on them tends to drive them off the table relatively quickly.

 

His ability to arrive exactly where you want him is nice, but since DoA already lets us arrive much more accurately than other armies, it is only an incremental improvement. Don't get me wrong, it's far from worthless, but given his extremely high price tag, I just don't feel he brings enough to the table to warrant using in non-Sanguinary Guard lists.

 

Night Spinner and Land Raiders don't actually scare me all that much- "fast" is a meaningless advantage when you can arrive wherever you want, and a Land Raider is an entirely different kind of target altogether- I would want to be bringing as much of my army to bear against its contents as possible, since they are usually quite nasty. Throwing one squad in front of it is just letting your enemy cream them for free.

[daboarder]

Interesting Idea on the VV's. I hadn't really thought about the 2 reserve roles increasing your chance to get at least one squad on turn 2, that's something that needs a lot of thought then. I'd say it comes down to whether you want a hammer blow or scalpel.

 

As for typhoons, yeah they're not "optimal" but they are good, the trick is to use them like cheaper stormravens. Reserve them then fly on the board edge or deepstrike them with the rest of your army. 8 times out of ten your opponent is going to be FAR more concerned about the 30+ FC/FNP dual melta marines sitting right in front of his lines than the 2-4 landspeeders sitting in your back field.

 

You've got a good point about fear of the darkness and while I originally love that power I've grown out of it becuase if it works, and it has a good chance of working, then your librarian and whatever squad he is with ISN'T in combat and are likely to be shot to pieces immediately.