Brother_Dan'l Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 People are always wondering what color to paint Vanguard helmets, even though the answer is obviously yellow. "Can they have Jump Packs? Yes. Then, duh, Yellow. Or, or maybe gold. Or maybe something else." ;) But what about Sternguard? It struck me that they are most likely to Veterans drawn from Devastator Squads and the Devastator Companies. So wouldn't blue helmets make sense? Or is my air recycler running a touch low on the oxygen mix? :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Codex: Blood Angels, p70 Sternguard Veterans with golden helmets Codex: Blood Angels, p73 Vanguard Veterans with golden helmets Codex: Blood Angels, p71 Blood Angels Veteran with golden helmet Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
exetus Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 It was easily pointed out by Brother_Byhlli, but the easier question is this, are Sternguard Veterans and Vanguard Veterans VETERANS??? Oh, that's right... Gold Helmets! :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 It was easily pointed out by Brother_Byhlli, but the easier question is this, are Sternguard Veterans and Vanguard Veterans VETERANS??? Oh, that's right... Gold Helmets! :devil: Mhm. This. I was trying to bypass the "but what do they count as?" discussion by just showing, in colour pictures, how GW has decided we should paint them. The rest kinda follows. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Devastators? I think they are more Tacticals, and so RED helmets would be appropriate. I think it is just 1 in 5 that can get a heavy right? so not exactly devs, more like vet tacticals with special ammo bolters. It struck me that they are most likely to Veterans drawn from Devastator Squads and the Devastator CompaniesHmmm, I don't know the fluff, and if that is correct then the blue would make a bit of sense. But they are now performing a Tactical squad role, so I still say red. Gold is for the Honor Guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784198 Share on other sites More sharing options...
exetus Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Devastators? I think they are more Tacticals, and so RED helmets would be appropriate. I think it is just 1 in 5 that can get a heavy right? so not exactly devs, more like vet tacticals with special ammo bolters. It struck me that they are most likely to Veterans drawn from Devastator Squads and the Devastator CompaniesHmmm, I don't know the fluff, and if that is correct then the blue would make a bit of sense. But they are now performing a Tactical squad role, so I still say red. Gold is for the Honor Guard. Gold WAS only for Honor Guard in the old codices. It has been updated to ALL of the 1st Company who are not in Terminator Armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 *Sigh* The Honour Guard wear entirely gold armour (Codex: Blood Angels, p67, Honour Guard in entirely gold armour). Vanguard Veterans and Sternguard Veterans are Veterans. The clue is in the name. If the clue isn't enough, then see Codex: Blood Angels, p26 ("Veteran Squads: A Blood Angel who serves with distinction will one day be elevated to the hallowed ranks of the Chapter's 1st (or Veteran) Company. ... While the 1st Company follows the Codex Astartes' guidance that its squads be split into assault [sic] Veterans, known as Vanguard Squads, and Tactical Veterans, known as Sternguard Squads....") Interestingly, members of the Honour Guard are not necessarily drawn from the 1st Company. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784220 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 *Sigh* The Honour Guard wear entirely gold armour (Codex: Blood Angels, p67, Honour Guard in entirely gold armour). Honour Guard can wear entirely gold armour - the squad on page 67 are Dante's Honour Guard from 4th edition, see page 68 for an actual 5th edition Honour Guard mini with only a gold helmet. Regarding Sternguard the official answer is of course gold, if you do decide to ignore that (as plenty of us do) then I would say they are generally Tacticals, as an old skool EPIC player I tend to think of 1 in 5 heavy as Support not Devastator and Support had Tactical markings.. Only if you had 2 heavies (which you can, the rule for Sternguardis 0-2 not 1 per 5) in a squad of 5 men would I count that as a Devastator, in which case I say blue helm vets for the win! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784236 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Oh please you guys, I think Brother Dan'l and I are painfully aware of what Mat Ward decided in the current dex for vet helmets. It's a shame, and I for one refuse to follow his new color scheme. The question is, what should it be? Similar to the VV question: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=231060 I still say red for sternguard, works for Tactical Termies too. Yellow for VV and even Assault Termies. (although I haven;t seen it yet, I'll try it soon enough though) Gold helmets for HG, only Dante's HG was all gold, and now he has SG soo... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784237 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 *Sigh* The Honour Guard wear entirely gold armour (Codex: Blood Angels, p67, Honour Guard in entirely gold armour). Honour Guard can wear entirely gold armour - the squad on page 67 are Dante's Honour Guard from 4th edition, see page 68 for an actual 5th edition Honour Guard mini with only a gold helmet. Well, consider me bitch-slapped. Sir, I humbly acknowledge my error. :D *Quietly retires* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784239 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 As I always say, this is what annoys me most about the new Codex. For those of us who kept the flame through the dark years of the pdf, and painted our veteran assault squads with yellow helmets (helmet colour shows function in the Blood Angels, not veteran status, which is shown by first company shoulder insignia) it is very irritating to have the current codex with its arbitrary awarding of honour guard gold helmets to Vanguard and Sternguard quoted back to us to say our armies are wrong. Terminators are veretans and don't have gold helmets, after all. To the OP, I think the Sternguard are veteran tacticals rather than veteran devastators, and i'd expect them to have red helmets. That is not to say that I don't think the sternguard figures look very nice with gold helmets. I imagine this as being indicative of BA overuse of gold bling in the higher ranks, rather than a specific armour colouring for the first company. Sigh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784260 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Dan'l Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Yup, I'm enough of a fuddy-duddy that it caused physical discomfort to type Vanguard. Blood Angels use VAS. Veteran Assault Squads. But with Sternguard, which Ward created out of whole cloth, I like the idea that they are drawn from Devastators. Particularly since Devs are the only other BA squad that can have more than one heavy weapon. Not to mention that it helps them stand out without having to add anymore damned gold. It used to bother me when we got called Khorne Lite in 3rd edition, but being the "Bling-bling Brigade" just plain pisses me off. :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well do what you like most, but since Sternguard Veterans can only have a few heavy weapons and that their main task is to give up close fire support with their special ammo Bolter I see little to no reason that they might could be devastator veterans. Sternguard are Tactical Veterans so I would paint their helmets red. Cheers Sang Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Well, just to show I don't dislike everything Matt Ward writes, Service in the devastators is a step on the path to tactical marine, so the blue helmet would be a slightly junior grade distinction. True the same could be said of the Regular Assault Marines, but it is clear that BAs regard this as their natural home and are always keen to volunteer for assault assignments. Event Dante wears a jump-pack. I think of the Sternguard having a lot of heavy weapons, two big ones and two combis, so an elite Devastator squad. Granted, though, in a ten man squad they only have the same number of heavy weapons as a tactical squad. Does anyone really field a 10 man Sternguard squad? Fluff-wise I shouldn't think there are that many in the first company who would want to be sternguard. They are even older farts than we are! BA have always had the most ornate armour and banners, according to the fluff, just not the figures to match. I always liked the understated cool of Dante and Tycho's sleek armour with minimal adornment. The sort of fine quality a connoisseur would appreciate up close. Really OTT bling is the sort of thing worn by Lorenzo and Gideon in Space Hulk. They are only sergeants, for goodness sake, and have turned up to fight aliens determined to out bling Marneus Calgar. That is probably beyond what the fluff intended. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784795 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesek Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Gold WAS only for Honor Guard in the old codices. It has been updated to ALL of the 1st Company who are not in Terminator Armor. Not in my army. Veteran assault are yellow helmed with first company markings, sternguard are red helmed with first company markings. Tactical terminators have red helms, and I'm still argueing with myself about assault terminators (Most of me says red, but a teeny tiny part keeps whispering that they'd look cool in yellow.). Gold is reserved for honour guard imo, expanding it to all the vets somehow cheapens it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Not in my army. Veteran assault are yellow helmed with first company markings, sternguard are red helmed with first company markings. Tactical terminators have red helms, and I'm still argueing with myself about assault terminators (Most of me says red, but a teeny tiny part keeps whispering that they'd look cool in yellow.). Gold is reserved for honour guard imo, expanding it to all the vets somehow cheapens it. Thats the way I would handle the whole story. And I think the company markings are the main point to represent someone as a Veteran and not the colour of the helmet. HG is a special case as their members do not automatically belong to the 1st (veteran) company. As for the Terminators I would not choose different colours for their helmets. Sounds not absolutely false, but I am not fully convinced of that idea. But I could be wrong. :) Cheers Sang Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I've tried going along the routes of Sternguard are just bad-ass tactical squads. This lead me to try a metallic red helm on top of the standard red armour. As much as I like the way the metallic red turned out it looked out of place next to the normal armour. So my next line of thinking is more in keeping with the codex,veterans are first company and have a set heraldry. So I'm going make them all gold helms. Now my main reason for wanting an alternate helm colour is I don't want to paint my honour guard all gold, I just don't think normal power armour pulls it off very well. And as my Vets have gold helms they’d all look the same-ish. Because I'm doing 3rd company "Iron helms" I'm going to change up my honour guard and give them the worn silvery iron looking helms. This fits with the company’s colour being white/silver as well as their name sake. In my minds eye I've only ever seen Tycho joining a sternguard squad so the silver gold clash won't be a problem and my other captains will be silvered up to match. I know this doesn’t help 2nd company player/painters but I thought it was at least worth talking about. I also know I've taken a slight step away from the OP, but I think it ties in enough to be a valid point and at least something for people to think about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2784947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kharn_the_betrayer Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I'm going with the current scheme that is laid out in the current book. This is just because I like how it looks and differentiates units. I don't mind the way its set up compared to old books, but this is my preference. I would also consider altering the Honor Guard scheme to my liking (the equipment will show what unit it is). I also would consider using the Red-Yellow-Blue set up with vets by doing some sort of metallic tint to the helmet, but since I'm a horrible painter I'd rather use the pre-done one in the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2785124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushman101 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 the helmet colors and a few of our chapter markings have changed (slightly but enough to matter) over the years. It's probably best to just use what you like Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/231457-blue-helmets-for-sternguard/#findComment-2785204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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