Long Fangs and Razorbacks

[Grimtooth]

So I have been contemplating my Razorback loadouts for a bit now.

 

My first two standard Long Fang loadouts are missile launchers. The trend is to equip them with las/plas Razorbacks but now I am questioning why.

 

1. I don't need lascannons to deal with AV 14. I have melta gun equipped GH packs and Str 10 thunderhammer TWC that have no problem dealing with AV 14 in a number of games.

 

2. Any MEQ army that gets into range of the twin-linked plasmagun will more then likely also have weapons that I am now in range of receiving fire.

 

So that leaves me looking at the basic twin-linked heavy bolters.

 

1. Weight of fire equals dead anything, even terminators roll ones when dealing with weight of fire.

 

2. Adds a anti-horde fire element to the army, lifting some of that responsibility from rapid firing GH and LF frag missiles.

 

3. Non-existant cost.

 

4. Provides a reliable (twin-linked) medium range fire support platform at 36" that wounds MEQ on 3+.

 

I think I am going to play test them a bit and see how they run with the 35pt savings of each one going elsewhere in my army.

[Firenze]

I would have the HB. Personal preference and they are excellent weapons. Good detterent vs 4+ armour too.

[Grimtooth]

I would have the HB. Personal preference and they are excellent weapons. Good detterent vs 4+ armour too.

 

Here is the thing about HB that seems to stick out in my head;

 

I remember playing IG several times and dealing with Leman Russ heavy bolter sponson fire and just getting frustrated with it before I could take them out.

 

And now thinking of a 35pt upgrade on an AV11 vehicle is vexing me as well.

[Union.Jack]

I use the twin linked las cannon on both my razorbacks.

 

Simply put they have never let me down, they have always finished off that monstrous creature or tank/defiler that my long fangs struggle against.

 

 

35 pts a pop is a bit steep but has been well worth it so far.

[Valkyrion]

Hunter killer missiles! I put HKM on every single weapon tank. I know S8 isn't S9, but there aren't *that* many AV14 and generally not at 1500 points, plus it's an extra life for your vindicator, razor or whirlwind.

 

At 1500 points you can put out a lot of rhinos and razors, and if you get the first turn you can drop 6+ missile launchers virtually anywhere on the board before the enemy has time to sneeze.

 

HKM Bolterback is what, 50 points? Thats cheap and can pop (a) transport(s) and hurt all infantry.

[Sarapham]

I love my two HB Razorbacks that accompany my missile fangs. I find them very useful in dealing with things I would not probably use heavy weapons against and that are out of range from the GH. For example when facing Orks they are great at picking off Lootas while allowing the rest of my long range fire to focus on trucks and Kans. They simply have great "redundancy fire" that are usually such low priority for the enemy that they have managed quite a bit of damage before going down. The fact that they are so cheap as well makes you never having to think twice about using them as full-on LOS blockers and such for the Long Fangs as well.

[Ven.Dread Greatclaw]

The solution is called: Twin Linked Assault Cannons!

 

Expensive as hell point wise but they really do walk the middle road. 4 shots str 6 with rending is perfect for hight tougness troops and the rending makes it above average agains marine saves and gives it a decent chanse och having that great penetration to take out light armour or atleast shaking the heavies.

[rodgambit]

I recently purchased two razorbacks and have been thinking of running them as HB platforms. In most games I can set my longfangs up no problem but there are times with DoW deployment that I wish I had a transport to rush 12" and jump/run my guys into position. I also have a hard time justifying a 35 point upgrade on an AV 11 vehicle. Those points add up fast and I'd rather spend them on stormshields for my TWC.

[Bulweih]

Hail brother!

 

I'm coming around on the same page as you.

There are those games when I love myself a twin-linked Assault-cannon or the las equivalent, but those are rather rare and against my Templarbuddy, where we always go toe to toe with our lists on purpose.

But apart from that, the HB is the weapon of choice for all the reasons you and our brothers already put up, good points all.

[PKAwolf]

Im not a fan of the HBs, Id rather have AssCans for the harder punch and extra shot.

But most of all I like the Las/Plas combo. IMHO the TLLC is never the right choice at that price.

Being twin linked makes it not as effective as it looks on paper. It may hit more, but it is no more effective at puncturing heavy armor. Still the same chance to glance, and no further effect on the damage table. Nothing prevents you from rolling a 1 to shake it. The Las/Plas can put out 3 high Str AP2 shots when pressed. And still has teeth after the first Wep Destroyed.

[Chef Wulfen]

i will be running 3 razorbacks 2 with AC and 1 with lascannons

[Nrthstar]

I'm gonna field test this tomorrow, the freed up points of using hbs combined with dropping the drop pod just got me a dread into my list. I'll likely play smurfs, gks, or daemons tomorrow, but maybe I'll get lucky and get nids, I always wanted to hb a ton of nids.

[Nrthstar]

Double post.

I like me

-1 caboose.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

So I have been contemplating my Razorback loadouts for a bit now.

 

My first two standard Long Fang loadouts are missile launchers. The trend is to equip them with las/plas Razorbacks but now I am questioning why.

 

1. I don't need lascannons to deal with AV 14. I have melta gun equipped GH packs and Str 10 thunderhammer TWC that have no problem dealing with AV 14 in a number of games.

 

I think I am going to play test them a bit and see how they run with the 35pt savings of each one going elsewhere in my army.

 

I have found Las cannons, which I bring via AutoLas Preds, to be very handy for dealing with sv2+ Monsters. Having krak missiles bounce from them is frustrating. GK will be bringing sv2+, without the usual 3++ save that gets brought along with it.

Something to think about.

 

Las cannons are not good at av14, it is more the ap2 and popping transports that they are good for.

 

A few 35 pt savings adds up. That is a Tornado with MM HF [which I think is one of the best units in the game] or an upgunned TWC, or a Pack of Scouts.

It would be nice if FlameBacks could project flame like the Hellhound or move and shoot at 12" like the Immolator. *sigh*

 

+++

 

I know this is different, but I bring a Las squad for holding Objectives, in my Templars. Usually I bring a LasBack for them. But I got to thinking, what if I dropped the LasBack? The transport potential nearly never gets used.

Then I spend a few more points and get a Dakka Pred. The squad still gets cover from it, gaining a 4++ save and can shoot their LC. Or I can hide the squad completely behind it, which is great for Objective games, etc.

 

If you use a small Greys pack for similar Objective camping [and remember, that wins you 2/3rds of the Missions] and usually take a LasPlasBack, consider taking a Dakka Pred for another 10 pts. Assuming you have the SUPPORT slot available.

The extra 10 pts gets you much more AI shooting, and I suspect the Pred is just as good against up to AV11.

 

Thoughts?

[rodgambit]

I generally have a rb squad with 5 guys and a free flamer to camp an objective. I do see the value of the las/plas on that vehicle for the extended fire power range and I actually like the idea of a cheap predator with AV13 to screen the unit or provide an extra cover save. I often find that a 3rd long fang pack is either bunched up on top of another one making it easy to take out both in close combat or there is not a good firing lane or cover for them so the cheap predator makes sense.

[Simo429]

I don't take them for long fangs, they are only needed for Dawn of War and I find that most tournament tables has a couple of pieces of terrain at least that you can get into with an average run.

 

I do take a las plas for my holding unit of grey hunters, I find that having it there allows me to whittle down any deepstriking terminators enough to allow my small squad to deal with the rest with a round of shooting and the assault.

[commander alexander]

I have used the TL Lascannon turrets to decent effect, usually making up their points cost. As they are just Razorbacks, I find that my opponent sends very few shots their way. And when the dice gods are not happy, and my long fangs continue to roll 1's & 2's, TL is good.

[WG Vrox]

A transport that offers TL HBs, can be used as a ramming tool, contest a objective, evac your fangs if need be or block LoS from a flank is well worth the 40 points. I tend to run my RB with the standard HB setup.

 

I agree with what has already been said the las/plas or TL AC version is better for a forward objective holding 5 man GH unit than it is for a rear ranged unit. 24" range doesn't cut it.

 

Vrox

[Grimtooth]

A transport that offers TL HBs, can be used as a ramming tool, contest a objective, evac your fangs if need be or block LoS from a flank is well worth the 40 points. I tend to run my RB with the standard HB setup.

 

I agree with what has already been said the las/plas or TL AC version is better for a forward objective holding 5 man GH unit than it is for a rear ranged unit. 24" range doesn't cut it.

 

Vrox

 

I was going to post up the same. The 24" range is the no go for a Long Fang pack imo. I like to see asscans on BA RAS or on GK Strike Squads, not Long Fangs.

[rodgambit]

Has anyone successfully used multi-melta long fangs? In the majority of the games I play the enemy comes to me and despite having units with melta and TH TWC I have not been able to effectively deal with land raiders. I know a lot of it has to do with poor dice rolls but in 4 straight games my opponent has shoved a land raider up my guts and the best I could do was immobilize it in 1 game but by then it was too late.

 

I was considering a multi-melta lf pack to sit on an objective with a 5-man rb unit and then throw a lone wolf with SS/CF to act as a screener unit. Thoughts?

[Prot]

I always default to the twin-lascannon variant.

 

You definitely have a point Ramses and it's good food for thought.

 

The 24" plasma is nice.... it seems in 5th anything can get within 24" very fast. It doesn't feel nearly as short a range as it used to in 3 or even 4th edition. With the height of Feel No Pain, it's really handy.

 

I guess I default to Las because I don't have a plethora of "aggressive" melta. Most of my meltaguns play mid-field and the Las is a great deep threat, almost guaranteed to hit.

 

Heavy bolters? I think they are just fine, but they never make my list. My Rune priests usually can fullfill that roll between lightning and hurricane. It's definitely worth trying though.

[Grimfoe]

I think you hit the nail right on the head Ramses. The load out depends completely on what you have to complement. I'm building with the lascannon as I need the extra punch for heavy armor. Your arguement makes complete sense, though. I'm building a different list, but I think yours is certainly viable.