IN BFG

[Grey Mage]

So, usually I dont play imperials in BFG- I play a fairly balanced Eldar fleet. I figured its time to dust off the IN though, and wanted some input on this list:

 

Using the IN Bastion Fleets list:

 

Emperor Class Battleship- Colossus: Fleet Admiral- 395pts.

 

Tyrant Cruiser- Spauldings Revenge: Long Range- 195pts.

Tyrant Cruiser- Righteous Mercy: Long Ranges- 195pts.

Dauntless Light Cruiser- Uriels Hammer- 110pts.

 

Jengatis Heroes- 2 Firestorms, 1 Sword- 115pts.

 

Likely opponents:

 

Dark Eldar, Eldar, Chaos, IN, Space Marines.

 

I feel light on lances, but with atleast one confirmed eldar player- who will likely field 3-4 Solaris- I feel confident in my broadsides strengths. I think the Emperor provides a good level of ordnance combined with the torpedo salvos available... The escorts and the dauntless will be on escort hunting duty, against light escort fleets theyll be on ordnance hunting duty and try to flank back to hit carriers.

 

Thoughts?

[Demoulius]

well first off your over by 10 points :rolleyes:

 

and like you say yourself, very light on lances... 5 lances total and 3 of the lances are on 1 ship (the dauntless) and the other 2 are on 2 escorts...not the most durable placess to put those lances.

 

whilst im sure you will rip eldar a new one i think you will have difficulties dealing with other fleets... also renember that an emperor has long range batteries of his own! bringing 2 long range tyrants and an emperor seems overkill in my opinion..

 

light cruisers are also very...well....light on everything (though granted the dauntless packs a mean punch with its forward 3 lances....) and are typicaly wielded in pairs at least. as a space marine player (so 6+ armour on my light cruisers but otherwise very simular) i can tell you that dauntless wont last long.... after losing 1 shield it starts taking hits and 3 forward lances on such a mobile ship are scary! perhaps trade the escorts in for a second dauntless or trade the original dauntless in for escorts?

 

the emperor has 8 AC meaning you will dominate the ordenance phase, OR if nothing else at least give the other ordnance heavy fleets a run for their money as at 1000 points 8 launch bays are hard to come by...

 

the list as is will struggle against non eldar fleets i fear... perhaps upgrading one of the tyrants to a Lunar or a Gothic (the latter would also fix the lance problem quite handily) and it would make your fleet come within the 1000 points limit ;)

 

So my suggestions would be:

*either take 2 dauntless' or a big group of escorts, 1 dauntless and 3 escorts wont do much im afraid... (though mind you if you drop the dauntless you cant take the emperor so uh... *shrugs*)

*exchange one of the tyrants for a Lunar/Gothic. you will lose some long range battery power but gain more reliable lances.

 

And....thats pretty much it. Emperor is a very solid ship and carrier :) with that as your base you have a beastly ordnance advantage. It can serve as your tank as well and if not nothing else might intimidate some opponents with its presence alone ^_^

[Grey Mage]

But.... but.... but....

 

Crap.

[Demoulius]

well you could wait for Vaaish i guess and wait if he advises something differently? ;) hes sort of the voice of experience on BFG as far as i can tell :) (only active one anyway)

[Grey Mage]

Nah, tis fine.

 

Im just ashamed of my mathematical failure.

 

Ironicly, while I was attempting to re-write my list I was informed plans had changed- 2x2 Eldar vs. Imperials is now the plan, and so my problems are solved.... for now.

[Vaaish]

I'm not seeing what point value you are aiming at and your list seems a little messed up. The point value for the emperor and admiral seems off. Cheapest admiral is 50 points which should be a total of 415 for the two. That aside, you'd be better off building that list using Admech. You'd pay about as much and at least get more lances and defenses for your troubles. You'd also have an excuse when it got shot to bits. :)

 

Starting with what you have, I'm guessing that you're playing 1k point game? If so you are 15 points over. The emperor is a good choice for AC. it gives you 8 bays and a sizable ranged firepower capability. That alone should give eldar some trouble if you keep close to the empy. Tyrants are also good against eldar but they are expensive and nearly a waste against marines and there are better options against Chaos. The dauntless is a good ship, but it really needs to be paired with a second and used like a large escort. With 5 lances you will struggle horribly against the 6+ marine armor.

 

Depending on your opponents fleets you could potentially go light or no AC at 1k. Might not be advisable against marines but still a possibility. I'm also not sure how married you are to the various ships or what models you've got, but lets start with what you listed. 1k IN will be hard starting with an Emperor, so lets not take that. We need all the points we can and having nearly half tied up in a battleship plus a commander is going to hurt. However, if you are dead set on taking one, here's my typical 1k list:

 

Emperor +Sharks

Lunar

Lunar

Dauntless Torpedo

Dauntless Torpedo

Admiral

1k

 

You can trade out the dauntless for lance versions if you want, but I find the torpedo ones more useful in my 1500 point fleet which this is a permutation of. Anyway, moving on. If you don't take an emperor you have four options for AC at 1k. The Oberon, Mars, Dictator, or exorcist. The oberon is a good platform, cheap and well armed, but limited to the armageddon list alone so not that good if you plan on using different lists. Mars bring s a NC which is nice and has 4AC which works well at lower points but it's expensive for what you get at 1500 points. The dictator is a good line support ship and part of the basis for a Retribution list making it a bit redundant if you take the emperor. The exorcist is a cheap and durable platform with long range batteries and speed so it's a good substitute for a battleship in lower point games. All of these options will need the fleet built around them.

 

Mars 270

Dominator 190

Gothic 180

2x Dauntless (torpedo) 220

3x Cobra

Admiral

1k

 

This will be balanced against everything except eldar which will require more finesse. You'll have speed and batteries with the dauntless as well as some range with the Mars. Still,depending on the scenario, you might have more success and you've got plenty to deal with any other fleet you face. Next up, the exorcist:

 

Exorcist

2x Lunar

2x Dauntless

4x Sword

Admiral

1k

 

This one is pretty balanced. You've got good battery strength on fast platforms with the Dauntless and Swords that can harass eldar and the range on the exorcist. Since all your ships have batteries, eldar cant ignore any of them like ifyou took a gothic. Against marines you've got a good number of lances and against chaos you've got torpedoes. It's also got 4 cruisers and a mini battleship with the grand cruiser. If you really want the BB though, here's one with the oberon.

 

Oberon

Dominator

Gothic

2x Endeavour

Admiral+reroll

1k

 

This is fairly balanced as well. The oberon should give enough batteries to take care of eldar if you keep close and you still get a NC. The endeacours give good battery power too. Anyway, that's my suggestions.

[Grey Mage]

The Emperor in the Bastion list- the one I used, is only 345pts.

 

Ended up with an Eldar game, vs. Necrons: took a Shadow, 5 eclipses, 2x3 Hemlocks, and an Aconite paired up with a couple nightshades. Mopped the floor with 2 tomb ships, 2 scythes, and 2 shrouds- they just didnt have the area coverage to hunt me down properly once their scythes were crippled turn 3 by large bomber waves.

 

I like your first list, I wanted to try out a battleship at 1k to see how it went- I avoid taking a voidstalker with eldar, and I really like the Emperor and the Oberon classes.

 

I will certainly check out the admech list though- the ships look interesting, and frankly Its not played around here at all.

[Vaaish]

The emperor's price was adjusted long ago for all lists. It's now 365 point while the retribution is 345. This was in both the 2007 FAQ and the 2010 FAQ. Admech are basically elite IN where all cruisers have one 60cm lance and any ships with prow weapons can get a NC and any ships with weapons batteries can boost their range to 45cm for 10 points. Every thing else outside of escorts gets +1 turret. It makes some things really good like the Endeavour which can swap it's torpedoes for a 30cm lance and boost the batteries to 45cm and has 3 turrets. Paired with a lunar and you have 5 lances and 12 batteries.

[Grey Mage]

Crap. Missed that in the FAQ- did I mention I dont play imperials much?

 

In wich case Im actually over 35pts.... thats an easy fix by dropping the sword. Still, its way to light on lances, maybe a good base for 1500.

 

In the mean time, the need for the list is done.

 

Available ships:

 

Emperor- magnitized, up for any of the designs since prows arent the biggest issue around here.

 

2 Tyrants

2 Dictators

2 Lunars

1 Gothic

1 Armageddon

6 Swords

6 Firestorms

2 Dauntless with 1/1 lance/torps. Locals have no problem saying theyre both one or the other.

[minigun762]

At least on paper, I can't say I'm very impressed with Tyrants. They lack the long range punch you seem to be looking for. I would instead look at an Overlord. More firepower at a longer range then 2 Tyrants and its not that expensive really. Of course you might have to juggle some of your other cruisers around.

[Vaaish]

As far as IN ships go, both the Tyrant and Overlord were considered crap. The Tyrant did have hte saving grace that it was fairly cheap and was useful against eldar. The Overlord failed because it takes up a battlecruiser slot and had less firepower than most CB's and even the tyrant although it did go out the 60cm. Most of the time an armageddon or grand cruiser was a better option for the price.

 

With the 2010 update the armageddon dropped in price as did the Overlord but far more key was that the overlord gaind the ability to take a targeting array for 15 points which basically gives it a left column shift for the same cost it had previously giving you an extra dice or two. Basically enough to give you the same firepower as a Tyrant but with the added two lances. I still don't think it's all that useful since the tyrant is 40 points cheaper and packs nearly the same punch and leave your CB slots open for armageddons which have far better lance capabilities than the Overlord.

 

That said, I do run tyrants in my secondary list. That one runs two tyrants with NC and the range boost and two Armageddons as well as the emperor and 5 falchions. It's performed fairly well for me with the tyrants squadroned to strip shields and following up with the armageddon's 8 lances.

[minigun762]

Damn, why is it that every ship I like ends up being bad ;)

 

As an aside, I really need to take a look at the updates and FAQs as I'm still only using the base rules/points from the GW website pdfs.

[Grey Mage]

*shrugs* I like the damage potential of Weapon Batteries, even if they arent as assured as lance power. The tyrants with the range upgrade do the jobs I need them to do, and if 45 cm only comes up now and again, atleast I have the option- I will pay 10pts for the option to increase my range by 50% on a 240x120cm board.

 

That being said, I love my Armageddon, its made of solid gold. But since when did it get 8 lances? Ive been playing 2/2 with 2 floating.

[Vaaish]

Ah, sorry. I mentioned I play a secondary list with 2x armageddon and 2x tyrant. The 2x armageddons will typically unload 8x lances into a target and more often than not, the 2x tyrants will have stripped shields nicely for them.

[Grey Mage]

Ooooh. I get it.

 

I wish there was an easier way to get voss prows. Or any way these days really.

[Vaaish]

There are.... You could drop by resinaddict.com and send a PM to Mangozac. He's done a nice resin voss style prow.

[Grey Mage]

I might have to do that once my student aid comes in.

 

What are your thoughts on the 3 voss light cruisers? They seemed interesting, but... well, light.

[Vaaish]

I like light cruiser personally. Dauntless work well in packs of two on their own while the voss cruisers work best in supporting squadrons with full cruisers.

For instance, squadron an endeavour with a lunar and you get s14 batteries and s8 torpedoes along with the lances. This works best with Admech but it's still alright with a normal IN fleet. Ignore the defiant. totally worthless.

 

The voss CL do come into their own in the Bakka list where they start with 3 turrets and can purchase a 4th for 10 points.

[Grey Mage]

....... bakka list?

[Vaaish]

It's part up the 2010 update. Should be at the same link you got the 2010 faq from.

[Grey Mage]

Interesting. Havent seen this one on the field. Not sure I like it, but it could work.... just not with my collection.

 

Is this what you play?

[Vaaish]

No, I typically play either the armageddon list or the bastion fleet list. I do use the 2010 update when I play marines though. I fiddled around a bit with the bakka list using a few of the CL but I haven't found anything I like that much compared with my normal lists.

[minigun762]

I like light cruiser personally. Dauntless work well in packs of two on their own while the voss cruisers work best in supporting squadrons with full cruisers.

 

Is it worthwhile to consider light cruisers as alternatives to escort squadrons?

 

The typical squadron I see is 3 ships which matches most light cruisers in price/durability fairly well but you do get less overall firepower.

[Vaaish]

I do. They actually worked better than escorts for quite a while because escorts used to die to assault boats on a roll of a 2+. Since the dauntless is a capital ship it can't evaporate and it has the maneuverability to hunt other escorts if needed. (the lance dauntless is a fun one in that if is hardly affected by being crippled. 3x lances halved rounding up is 2)

[Grey Mage]

I personally like escorts... I remember the first time that I took five swords against a buddy of mine- he was real busy taking out a Lunar when the next turn I told him that squadron was opening up.

 

Ok... so thats what, a S10 broadside?

 

20.

 

0_0

 

Absolutely hilarious. Had to stop taking them for a while because they were getting targetted very heavily very early for the next month.

 

Turret massing has helped them alot. A couple of players in my area still hate escorts though, saying theyre to fragile. I think its the price they pay for the firepower they can put out relative to their point value.