How to kill battleships (bfg)

[minigun762]

What are the most effective ways of killing battleships, battle barges and other tough targets? High armor makes weapon batteries somewhat useless besides stripping shields but I'm not sure you can take enough lances to cut through all the hit points in time. Maybe torpedoes or assault boat spam because bombers lack enough attacks to really damage them.

[Codicier Lucion]

It depends upon the fleet you're using. Spamming Ork Brute Ram Ships works wonderfully against Tau and Chaos battleships based upon the couple of times i've seen them played.

[Demoulius]

you dont need to destroy it in 1 turn. if you chip of 2-3 hits a turn it will still only take 2-3 turns before its crippled ;) offcourse youd have to survive that long and if your focusing all your firepower on 1 ship... :)

 

sometimes its best to ignore the big ships and go for the smallers ones first ;)

[Grey Mage]

Drop shields with weapon batteries, follow up with lances, choose your crits carefully.

 

And why do you keep saying the average armor is high- its really a 5+, wich isnt bad.

 

The other way is fast lance boats like the Strike Cruiser, Dauntless, and Firestorm- sweep in from the flanks, move through threat range in a turn, and get behind the sucker- battleships are slow, and with good positioning you can get 2-3 turns of raking one with lances before they get their positioning back.

 

And of course- massed torpedo fire backed up with some bombers. Force your opponent to choose between the potential devastation of the bombers or the full impact of 18 torpedos and hes got no good choices left. Just like anything else- focused fire is more effective.

 

Other things Ive done in the past:

 

Melta Torpedos and Vortex Torpedos have both allowed me to cripple battleships in a single well placed salvo. I take rolls on the torpedo chart all the time. Homing Mines are also quite powerful.

 

Eldar. Yeah, I know that doesnt help everyone- but if you assign random opponents after lists are made with your gaming group it can really help even things out a bit- people take more weapon batteries, fewer lances, and fewer huge ships with the point ears on patrol.

 

Lock On. Rerolling to hits is worth its weight in gold, often better than getting more shots in my experience. Particularly against larger targets like grand cruisers and battleships.

 

Lastly, particularly for Chaos- a slaughter class cruiser with the mark of khorne and-if you like- CSM boarding parties is good.

 

Remember- BFG isnt about hulking as much as it is about forcing your opponent to disengage. Hulks are rare, profitable, and not something Id plan for.

[minigun762]

I said high armor because many of the main fleets have at least one 6+ side and rarely less then 5+.

I had considered assault boats and trying to kill it through criticals.

 

Lock on with lances works nicely, a hades will get 3 hits at 60cm with it.

[Tigrinus]

How to kill battleships? Is this a trick question? (I play Eldar :blush: )

 

Eldar bombers, eldar torpedoes, eldar pulse lances, superior maneuverability, and holo-fields.

 

That's how I kill battleships.

[Grey Mage]

I said high armor because many of the main fleets have at least one 6+ side and rarely less then 5+.

I had considered assault boats and trying to kill it through criticals.

 

Lock on with lances works nicely, a hades will get 3 hits at 60cm with it.

 

Thing is, thats like saying T4 is high- it really isnt, its just a number.

 

The game is balanced around 5+ being average. 4+ is low, 6+ is high. Space Marines have a high fleet armor, eldar have a low one... etc etc.

[Vaaish]

Most of the time it's far more practical to just ignore the battleship since your likely to take more of a beating from the rest of his fleet than you will from the battleship. If that's not an option then hit 5+armor ships (most battleships) with torpedoes after you clear CAP since the high turrets won't do as much to the salvo or knock off attack runs like with bombers. That will give you your best odds of damage since you are doing damage to the hull and not having four hits soaked up by the shields.

 

If torpedoes aren't an option then you are in for a lot of difficulty since you'll need to combined the fire to strip the shields and start taking hits off the hull. If you are facing 6+ armor then you'll need to use lances and lots of them to knock off the hits.

 

Grey Mage: I've got a few issues with your suggestions. I'm not sure what you mean by choose your crits carefully. Critical damage is always rolled for and is never something you can just pick from the list. The last thing is your suggestion of a Slaughter with a mark of Khorne. That's really not going to do a whole lot against a battleship. It only doubles boarding value which, against an emperor (12 hits + 5 turrets= BV 17) doesn't even give you enough to gain a bonus to the resolution roll. In a situation like that the emperor will still get a +1 for having a higher BV to cancel out your +1 for being chaos. At best you could hope for 5 hits if he rolls a one and you roll a 6. That comes out to a lot of points for a bonus that's situational at best and something better spent on rerolls or other ships since most chaos lists run pretty tight on points.

 

Demolius: while you only need two or three hits a turn to cripple it, if you are shooting at the battleship those two to three hits are more like 6-7 hits a turn to drop shields and start damaging the hull.

[minigun762]

Most of the time it's far more practical to just ignore the battleship since your likely to take more of a beating from the rest of his fleet than you will from the battleship. If that's not an option then hit 5+armor ships (most battleships) with torpedoes after you clear CAP since the high turrets won't do as much to the salvo or knock off attack runs like with bombers. That will give you your best odds of damage since you are doing damage to the hull and not having four hits soaked up by the shields.

 

If torpedoes aren't an option then you are in for a lot of difficulty since you'll need to combined the fire to strip the shields and start taking hits off the hull. If you are facing 6+ armor then you'll need to use lances and lots of them to knock off the hits.

 

Torpedoes and/or bombardment cannons from imperial fleets could work but I know that its hard to get a large number of torps using Chaos, which is why I was thinking about assault boats instead. Enough hit&runs might end up doing something important but it is a bit of a gamble.

[Vaaish]

If you aren't taking marine crews you won't be able to roll anything that causes actual damage to the ship with assault boats. However, being chaos, you should have plenty of firepower to deal with the rest of the fleet and disengage if necessary. You really only need to deal with the battleship if you want to, though chaos does pack enough firepower to take down an IN BB in a couple of turns, especially if he fails to brace.

[Grey Mage]

Grey Mage: I've got a few issues with your suggestions. I'm not sure what you mean by choose your crits carefully. Critical damage is always rolled for and is never something you can just pick from the list.

Starboard/port crits. Battleships tend to have multiple weapon systems on a single side. I dunno, I roll alot of these most days, and knowing wich weapons are to be taken out when is important. Thats really all I meant by that, sorry if it was misleading.

 

The last thing is your suggestion of a Slaughter with a mark of Khorne. That's really not going to do a whole lot against a battleship. It only doubles boarding value which, against an emperor (12 hits + 5 turrets= BV 17) doesn't even give you enough to gain a bonus to the resolution roll. In a situation like that the emperor will still get a +1 for having a higher BV to cancel out your +1 for being chaos. At best you could hope for 5 hits if he rolls a one and you roll a 6. That comes out to a lot of points for a bonus that's situational at best and something better spent on rerolls or other ships since most chaos lists run pretty tight on points.

On the other hand, its a 230pt cruiser going toe to toe with a 500+pt battleship on even odds, and it can get there quickly scooting through long range fire power and avoiding short range entirely. Once the ships being boarded it cant move, it cant shoot, its dead in the water- this means its not launching waves of attack craft or pummeling your lines in return for a ship half its price, for several turns. By the time it gets out of the clinch you should have the rest of the fleet in hand and be able to take it down with the concentrated firepower your now free to use. Conversely, if your losing itll soften the blow a bit by taking one of their main weapons out of the fight.

[Vaaish]

Once the ships being boarded it cant move, it cant shoot, its dead in the water- this means its not launching waves of attack craft or pummeling your lines in return for a ship half its price, for several turns. By the time it gets out of the clinch you should have the rest of the fleet in hand and be able to take it down with the concentrated firepower your now free to use. Conversely, if your losing itll soften the blow a bit by taking one of their main weapons out of the fight.

 

This isn't entirely correct. Boarding actions only take place in the end phase and only the attacking ship is specified as not being able to shoot. It's also not going to keep the target battleship locked down since vessels that survive the boarding action can always move off normally in their turn unless you manage to get a drawn combat result. The drawn combat result is where neither side can move, shoot, or launch ordnance.

 

It's more likely that your slaughter will rush in declare it's boarding and maybe score a hit before the battleship and the rest of the fleet does a minimum move and locks on.

[Demoulius]

Demolius: while you only need two or three hits a turn to cripple it, if you are shooting at the battleship those two to three hits are more like 6-7 hits a turn to drop shields and start damaging the hull.

 

true, and i also mentioned that the hsieldsn eed to be dropped first if im not mistaken...

 

anyway torpedoes bypass those shields alltogether and while has 5 it wont stop all incoming attacks. if you also launch AC (attack boats will have the most effect) he will have to target one meaning you will do the most damage

 

that said i think Grey mage doesent play the port/starboard crits properly? ALL weapons on the side cant fire, you dont select one?

[Vaaish]

you are correct, the crits knock all port/starboard weapons offline not just one system.

[Grey Mage]

Interesting, one weapon systems been the standard interpretation in town for a while now....

 

Of course, that means like 10 players. Can you cite something other than the crit table for me? As its not particularly explicit on this point.

[Vaaish]

Only the critical table mentions the effects of the criticals and I'm not sure how you can get that interpretation from the crit table either. It very explicitly says "the starboard armament", "the port armament", "the dorsal armament". Those are all encompassing terms. There is nothing in there that says "some port weapons can't fire, pick which one" or "one dorsal weapon may not fire until repaired" or "part of the prow armament is damaged". There just isn't any room to read that in there without adding considerably to the table.

 

Basically if the datasheet says it fires to port, and you get a critical on your port weapons, you don't get to shoot anything on that side any other interpretation requires some rather delicate gymnastics to justify based on the effects of the critical as written.

[Demoulius]

^^^^ what he said. basicly the crits say "direction's" arnament may not fire. since it does not say something like "A starboard arnament may not fire" it basicly means all weapons on that side may not fire :)

 

mind you my group did it like your group does now....till i kinda picked it up browsing through the rulebook randomly (do that alot and we still get so many things wrong...go figure :eek)

[Grey Mage]

Well see the common interpretation out here was that this was an oversight, as many ships only have one gun to a side and almost as many have ones that fire to multiple sides and they went with 'standard gw rules' that the attacker therefor chooses a weapon that fires to that side.

 

And its been played that way for the last four years that Ive been with these players. Ill talk it over with them though, as I prefer to have the whole thing covered by rules, and your way does that.

[Vaaish]

When the game lists a weapon system as Port or Prow or Dorsal and the critical rules reference the Port or Prow or Dorsal, it follows that any weapon on the ship named that will be affected regardless of the arcs it can fire in. This is especially true if there are no additional rules limiting the affect or allowing a specific system to be singled out. It doesn't make sense to conclude that there was an oversight and a whole new rule needs to be created.

[Grey Mage]

Im not getting into this argument- with you. Its how the local guys were playing it, and so I brought it up when you asked me to explain myself. Ive said Ill talk it over, and Ive listed there explanation to me as I remember it from years ago.

 

Can we get back to the topic at hand?

[eyescrossed]

I thought I might as well post here instead of making a new thread (whack me over the head with a dreadsock if I derail the thread):

 

I'm thinking of starting BFG (originally I was going to use Eldar Corsairs, but now I'm thinking Chaos) and my main opponent is either going to be using Forge World Tau or Imperials. I know the rules (alas, a bit vaguely), but I'm not quite sure what would be effective against them - I'm not looking to tailor, just advice. His Imperial fleet would most likely include an Oberon and 2 Lunars, but that's all I know.

 

I had a Chaos list around somewhere from a while ago... I'll try to find it.

[Grey Mage]

The FW tau fleet is a 'chasing' fleet, most effective in their forward arcs. The cruisers are a bit light on hit points, but have a fun armored prow and arent terribly expensive- a little more than an imperial lunar. They are very turret heavy though....

 

Note- the FW list isnt the one from armada at all, but many people use the one armada with the significantly cheaper, and prettier, FW models.

 

The Tau battleship is light on HP again, with only 10 hits. It carries ordnance to rival an Emperor class for a somewhat cheaper ship. Again, turret heavy.... but light on guns for a ship its class. Getting in close and pummelling tau with broadsides works pretty well, particularly as most of their weapons are lightweight but with multiple arcs- meaning they can only bring their full power to bare on a single target, while most imperial/chaos forces at close range can hit a left and right target pretty hard.

 

Id also expect the Custodian Battleship to have its trio of Warden escorts close- theyre a light ship, restricted in numbers in the list, and similar to an imperial firestorm. Be careful, as unlike most ships their lance is multi-directional, though they remain a bit fragile like any escort.

 

Against tau in general be careful- isnt a single capital ship among them that wont be able to produce strike craft, and the bombers are resilient. Most fleets will struggle to keep up on the attack craft and will need to play defensively with alot of fighters- as Tau produce a good number of torpedos too, so turrets are often overwhelmed vs a good opponent.

[Rider-75]

And of course- massed torpedo fire backed up with some bombers. Force your opponent to choose between the potential devastation of the bombers or the full impact of 18 torpedos and hes got no good choices left. Just like anything else- focused fire is more effective.

 

this. works for me quite well.

[Demoulius]

Against Tau (have no experience here....but) it sounds usefull to play defensivly with your own ordnance. The way people describe them and the number of AC and smart torpedoes they have it would be almost impossible to win an ordnance race against them.

 

IIRC though they halve their boarding values right? because in that case taking them out sounds quite easy. just get close enough (and largely intact enough) to board them :ph34r:

[Grey Mage]

Yeah, 1/2 strength, and no teleport attacks going out...

 

My roommate ran a Tau fleet for a long time- way to easy to just field Explorers and spam the hell out of attack craft. He frequently ran:

 

5 Explorers- 3 Regular, 2 with Torpedos.

12 Wardens.

And a Commander (ld 8). They just hung back, and tried to overwhelm your turrets with around 30 attack craft before they were closed with...

 

Then he discovered the FW list, and the whole thing changed. His main reason for the above list? "I hate merchants, they suck, and Ill never field one."