Need Help Justifying A Counts-As

[RDubbs]

I decided to do a DIY for my first-ever 40K army. I like the Black Templar codex, to an extent, and I like the look of a lot of the models - the Maltese Cross is awully close to the Iron Cross, which I was going to use anyway, and the tabard look appeals to me. I also like the 'knightly' aspect of them. Even like the color scheme.

But while I like the Black Templars, they're just not the chapter I want to build. Not a fan of their crazy-religious zeal stuff.

So I need to figure out how to justify using the BT codex for a non-BT army, and, even more wildly, possibly using Corax's geneseed.

I figure the iconography isn't a big deal, though I could be wrong - the Crimson and Imperial Fists share the same chapter symbology, among others.

The color scheme...I dunno. Black armor's definitely in, I just like the look of it. The red's possibly an issue due to most of the BT images I've seen, especially Sword Brethren, incorporate red, or even forego white in favor of red. Ignore the DA symbol, btw, there's just not a BT one on the painter. My concern is that the average opponent would just outright assume they're BT, which I can fully understand. I came up with the below as an alternate, but I don't think I like it quite as much, and I doubt the colors will mesh quite the same way:

So, yeah. How do you justify a Counts-As for the BT, and what're your thoughts on the blatant stealing of the symbols/models and the (potential) close similarity in schemes?

[Malthe]

Just use whatever codex you like, man... Justiying whatever unit you choose to put on the table through homebrewed excuses usually ain't worth the effort.

If you insist, the most defining difference is the mixed squads, which you should be able to copy without anyone making a fuss. It's hardly a unique concept.

With regards to the lack of Devastators and Whirlwinds, just claim they are not part of the force you put on the table but exists elsewhere in the chapter.

All my chapters have at least one battle barge, but I'm not gonne bring it for my games :P

 

Finally with regards to crusader squads, just make them either assualt marines with chainsword/bolt pistol ( but without jumppacks) or tactical squads with bolters.

 

That should do it :)

 

Cheers

 

p.s. Oh, and lots of chapters nominate a champion before they go to battle, it's not unique to the Fists/Templars

 

p.p.s. I like the second paint scheme, but I would think about adding more blue to avoid the confusion.

[Octavulg]

The trick is the vows, the unique scout arrangement, and lack of Whirlwinds/Devs. Everything else is easy. :)

 

The second is simple enough - they thought it worked better that way. The first is a bit tricky - it depends on the vows. The third is easy as well - they either favor mobile assets or just forgot to bring them this week.

[Race Bannon]

Maybe a little belated, but welcome to the B+C ;)

 

I understand your situation: I tried to make my DIY be able to fit into all the Codecies. The only way I could do it was not to assign any squad symbols or numbers ... Be lucky you want to use ONE Codex :D

 

Anyway, I have some advice I developed while making my DIY and I don't mean to sound trite ... your Chapter is whatever you need it to be, to do. In other words, the only person you need to justify anything to is yourself. So let me attempt to put myself in your shoes.

 

For starters, avoid the geneseed issue for now - it doesn't affect your army as you play it on the table. Corax will cause you problems, sorry to say. Not that it can't be done, and please, you don't need our permission with whatever you come up with. As long as YOU like the idea, then do it for YOU.

 

As for "Not [being] a fan of their crazy-religious zeal stuff", I get that. But as Octavulg posted, it'll be tricky. Think of it this way: when you are at the table, what are you going to say so the opponent understands you?

 

You: I'm rolling 'Go get 'em!'

Them: What?

You: It's my version of Righteous Zeal.

Them: Oh. Ok.

 

Simplified, but I hope it makes the point. You don't want to have "crazy-religious zeal stuff", but how can you represent the *rules* without using the same words and descriptions? Would that take away the "feel" from your army? If you say, NO, then you just passed your first hurdle.

---

 

Structure (how it looks). Again, Octavulg nailed it.

• Your chapter uses a different training program from the bulk of the Astartes. Done.
  
• Your Chapter doesn't have or won't use certain equipment. Done. Why is a matter of story and style. No sweat.
  

---

 

Style / looks

 

Not to be a broken record but, no one needs to care what symbols the army uses but YOU. Because you are wanting the use black and red colors then they WILL be called Black Templars. No offense, get used to it. It's what happens and it's ok :) In other words, a rose by any other name smells just as sweet ... so to speak.

 

If black can go with anything (at least in clothing), then it should apply with armor. So, if you like red, then go with it. The point is that you are happy with your choice. So prioritize: is it more important that your army uses red? Or is it more important they do not use BT colors? You can't have both easily.

---

 

Finally, your not blatantly stealing anything. Your using resources already available to you so you can have fun! And that's the whole point to it all.

[RDubbs]

Thanks for the responses and advice, guys.

 

As for "Not [being] a fan of their crazy-religious zeal stuff", I get that. But as Octavulg posted, it'll be tricky. Think of it this way: when you are at the table, what are you going to say so the opponent understands you?

 

You: I'm rolling 'Go get 'em!'

Them: What?

You: It's my version of Righteous Zeal.

Them: Oh. Ok.

 

Simplified, but I hope it makes the point. You don't want to have "crazy-religious zeal stuff", but how can you represent the *rules* without using the same words and descriptions? Would that take away the "feel" from your army? If you say, NO, then you just passed your first hurdle.

 

Oh, that's easy enough. I'd just call it Righteous Zeal. After all, 'righteous' is highly subjective; my chapter could believe something entirely different than the Black Templars, and still be righteously zealous about it. Black Templars are far, far easier in that regard than my other counts-as option, the Blood Angels; the BT rule/unit names are pretty generic, but what can you do with Sanguinary Priests and Red Thirst, right?

 

Style / looks

 

Not to be a broken record but, no one needs to care what symbols the army uses but YOU. Because you are wanting the use black and red colors then they WILL be called Black Templars. No offense, get used to it. It's what happens and it's ok :D In other words, a rose by any other name smells just as sweet ... so to speak.

 

If black can go with anything (at least in clothing), then it should apply with armor. So, if you like red, then go with it. The point is that you are happy with your choice. So prioritize: is it more important that your army uses red? Or is it more important they do not use BT colors? You can't have both easily.

---

 

Finally, your not blatantly stealing anything. Your using resources already available to you so you can have fun! And that's the whole point to it all.

 

Yeah, I suppose that's true. Unfortunately, I've discovered I'm not the first one to realize that black with red looks appealing, and saw the exact paint scheme I had in mind in one of the galleries here - on a DIY using the BT codex and models, no less. I'm really starting to get more and more stuck between the BT and the BA; the BT are easier to Counts-As in terms of rules and such, but the BA jumper list is starting to feel a little more like what I want.