SW vs Guard need advice

[LoneSniperSG]

A member on Boot Camp (The Imperial Guard forum) has challenged me to a game, being that we both live in the same area. He wanted originally to go against my own IGuard, but that army is undergoing something of an overhaul to get it combat-effective against my friend's new Tyranids.

 

So that leaves me with Space Wolves ready to grab-and-go to war.

 

I tend to play armor-heavy Guard, so I'm not completely aware of all strategies in common use by other Guard players and what Wolves need to think about when facing the sledgehammer of the Emperor.

 

Any tips and advice?

 

Obviously I need to get into CC. Duh, but there's other things to think about besides that.

 

It should be somewhere around 1850 points.. so I've got plenty of room to work just about anything. I'm thinking my Whirlwind will see action again, blasting the IG with Castellan missiles, along with Long Fangs and a Predator plus a Lascannon Dreadnought for anti-tank. Meltaguns are standard-issue due to their Assault profile, but also I'm thinking flamers won't kill me. Skyclaws with Meltabombs and a pair of Land Speeders might also do some banging on the AV14.

[Simo429]

If its against leaf blower

3 packs of long fangs, scouts with meltabombs, a rifleman dread or two, couple of rune priests with living lightning, shoot his flyers down and then move on to everything else.

[LoneSniperSG]

... Leaf Blower? No idea what that is. I'm guessing that's Air Cav? I've never seen any Valkyries, Vendettas or Vultures in his project log.

[Eric the Green]

"Leaf blower" is a term that was coined after some dude won a tourney with a guard list based on a bunch of heavy weapons and some special ability that let's you fire on deep strikers as they come in. Basically an alpha strike list.

 

That said, I don't have much experience vs guard (none actually) but i'd think scouts would be amazing vs gunline or mech. If you can get them into assault I'd also think TWC could be very effective vs guard infantry.. I could also see a drop pod list working pretty well.

 

But, like I said I've never faced IG so I'd likely end up running a bunch of melta hunters in rhinos and a couple packs of long fangs with las/plas razorbacks. Probably throwing in scouts and twc for flavor, but that's more or less my standard list.

 

Good luck brother

[Thunderhawk3015]

Leafblower got nerfed with the new GK Dex, but basically its Russ spam. Lots of high str low ap templates and front armor 14.

[LoneSniperSG]

Leafblower got nerfed with the new GK Dex, but basically its Russ spam. Lots of high str low ap templates and front armor 14.

 

Eh... that may be a possibility then. However, I think people are running like crazy with one army concept. I don't really know what to expect from this guy, I just have to do my best to beat whatever he throws down.

[Gen. Confusion]

I also suggest wolf scouts with melta bombs. If your opponent sets up a parking lot you can multi charge several vehicles at once. Auto hits on vehicles that did not move. Auto glance and pens on 3+ with 2d6. Against most guard vehicles. Very nasty.

[Iacton Qruze]

Leafblower got nerfed with the new GK Dex, but basically its Russ spam. Lots of high str low ap templates and front armor 14.

 

 

True leafblower is more complex than that; Ideally, you'll be seeing Medusae, Hydras, and a Manticore, surrounded by a wall of Chimeras that will impede your ability to close, preventing what doesn't get blown off the board first turn from effectively returning fire on the tanks doing the actual damage. The Chimeras are filled with Vets and other such units that can bring a lot of special weapons to the field.

 

It's not a fun list to play against, but It's also probably not what you'll be facing.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Leafblower got nerfed with the new GK Dex, but basically its Russ spam. Lots of high str low ap templates and front armor 14.

 

I believe it's Darkwynn who came up with the list.

 

You've got a company command squad in a chimera, an allied in inquisitor with mystics, a psyker battle squad or two, melta vets in chimeras, Vendettas/Valkyries, and some sort of artillery. Contrary to popular belief, you drive forward with it in an attempt to crowd them into a corner. The battle squads are incredibly useful for this with their fear-causing ability.

[LoneSniperSG]

Leafblower got nerfed with the new GK Dex, but basically its Russ spam. Lots of high str low ap templates and front armor 14.

 

 

True leafblower is more complex than that; Ideally, you'll be seeing Medusae, Hydras, and a Manticore, surrounded by a wall of Chimeras that will impede your ability to close, preventing what doesn't get blown off the board first turn from effectively returning fire on the tanks doing the actual damage. The Chimeras are filled with Vets and other such units that can bring a lot of special weapons to the field.

 

It's not a fun list to play against, but It's also probably not what you'll be facing.

 

I think one day I need to make a Leafblower Guard army to table my friend's BA. Just for the hell of it. Anyway, need some more general advice. Aside from having nearly all the stats pretty solid in my memory (Russ's thinnest armor is the butt, of course.), I'm probably ill-prepared for it.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Guard are generally regarded as the toughest army to face at the moment, even without leafblower.

 

However we're regarded as the second toughest, so it should be an okay match.

 

You want mech for your Grey Hunters, 7 men plus Pack leader, melta, combi-melta, power fist, Rhino.

 

Long Fangs with missile launchers for kraking up chimeras and fragging guard.

 

Land Speeders with multi-melta/heavy flamer, melta the tanks, roast the contents.

 

A Rune Priest or two to use murderous hurricane on de-meched infantry, and jaws on those annoying commanders with their orders.

 

It'll be a tough fight, but if the dice are with you then you have a fair shot.

 

For 1850 I would lean towards something like.

 

Rune Priest, chooser, living lightning, murderous hurricane 110

Rune Priest, murderous hurricane, jaws of the world wolf 100

Wolf Guard Battle Leader, thunder wolf mount, wolf claw, storm shield, runic armour, meltabombs 190

 

4 Wolf Guard, combi-melta and power fist 172

Lone Wolf, terminator armour, chain fist, storm shield 85

Lone Wolf, terminator armour, chain fist, storm shield 85

 

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

 

Land Speeder Tornado, multi-melta heavy flamer 70

Land Speeder Tornado, multi-melta heavy flamer 70

Land Speeder Tornado, multi-melta heavy flamer 70

 

6 Long Fangs, 2 lascannon, 3 rocket launchers 170

6 Long Fangs, 2 lascannon, 3 rocket launchers 170

6 Long Fangs, 2 lascannon, 3 rocket launchers 170

 

Which should be a total of 1848 points.

 

Lascannons target armour 13+, krak missiles 12- attempting to stun enough stuff that he doesn't get much shooting off. Meltaguns and multi-melta deal with armour as only 2D6+8 AP1 can. Frag, flame, and assault infantry. Lone Wolves just run headlong towards the enemy offering him an unenviable choice about what to shoot at. The Wolf Guard Battle Leader is there for giggles, he functions much like a lone wolf. Less survivable, but much faster. Grey Hunters bring up the rear, taking objectives and wheedling out enemy hiding in cover or buildings.

 

Remember the motto "reduce their hit points to zero."

[LoneSniperSG]

.. Cool. I need more missile launcher models.

 

i know I said I wanted tanks of my own, but I'm pretty sure the three Long Fangs are the right way to go this time. Space Marine tanks cannot and will not stand up to a Leman Russ.. especially when they're horribly outnumbered. (I've done a few games on my own of SW armor vs IG armor.. talk about a slaughter.)

 

Then again.. if I'm mobbing up Rhinos like that, a Vindicator or Predator can easily hide amongst them.

[Rain Finale]

For 1850 I would lean towards something like.

 

Rune Priest, chooser, living lightning, murderous hurricane 110

Rune Priest, murderous hurricane, jaws of the world wolf 100

Wolf Guard Battle Leader, thunder wolf mount, wolf claw, storm shield, runic armour, meltabombs 190

 

4 Wolf Guard, combi-melta and power fist 172

Lone Wolf, terminator armour, chain fist, storm shield 85

Lone Wolf, terminator armour, chain fist, storm shield 85

 

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

7 Grey Hunters, meltagun, wolf totem, Rhino 135

 

Land Speeder Tornado, multi-melta heavy flamer 70

Land Speeder Tornado, multi-melta heavy flamer 70

Land Speeder Tornado, multi-melta heavy flamer 70

 

6 Long Fangs, 2 lascannon, 3 rocket launchers 170

6 Long Fangs, 2 lascannon, 3 rocket launchers 170

6 Long Fangs, 2 lascannon, 3 rocket launchers 170

 

Which should be a total of 1848 points.

 

Lascannons target armour 13+, krak missiles 12- attempting to stun enough stuff that he doesn't get much shooting off. Meltaguns and multi-melta deal with armour as only 2D6+8 AP1 can. Frag, flame, and assault infantry. Lone Wolves just run headlong towards the enemy offering him an unenviable choice about what to shoot at. The Wolf Guard Battle Leader is there for giggles, he functions much like a lone wolf. Less survivable, but much faster. Grey Hunters bring up the rear, taking objectives and wheedling out enemy hiding in cover or buildings.

 

Remember the motto "reduce their hit points to zero."

 

The thunder wolf leader isn't any faster than the lone wolf or any other foot slogging infantry unless you count the move through cover rule he gets for being an IC. He just has a 12" longer threat range. Still, if you want to play with thunder wolves, I think the battle leader is a bad way to do it. You can get 3x thunder wolves for less than that battle leader and the only thing you lose is the 2+ armor save, 1 ld, 1 ws, and the wc but you gain 13 more attacks, 4 more wounds.

 

The foot slogging lone wolves won't be hitting their lines until turn 4 (maybe turn 3 if you get good difficult and run rolls. A better way imo to disrupt a gun line for those points is wolf scouts with melta bombs. Two packs of wolf scouts coming in and multi assaulting his static gun line with melta bombs will see 2 or 3 tanks go up. If you can fit it, include a melta gun and come in. where you can melta something with infantry inside, then multi assault the infantry that come out of the wreck along with melta bombing a nearby 2nd tank and with luck,

you'll be stuck in assault and unable to be shot on his turn.

[Vlk]

I have been playing almost exclusively against Imperial Guard lately and my army won me every single one of those games. It's not really competitive but it contains several elements that can be downright brutal against the IG if used properly.

 

1) Not surprisingly, the first one of them are the Wolf Scouts. I run just a single small pack of 5 WS with just a Meltagun and a WGPL with a Power Fist and a Combi-melta. The pack is cheap so it has no problem paying for itself, 2 Meltaguns at BS4 give you a good chance to turn anything in the IG arsenal to a heap of molten slag and if they fail, there is always the S8 Fist and several Krak Grenades to fix it. Works every time. They are also more than capable of slaughtering any standard IG infantry (which usually comes with 10 infantrymen with or w/o a Commisar) including their transports and are perfect for hunting down and eliminating Command Squads. You really can't go wrong with the Wolf Scouts.

 

2) Swiftclaws. I use a pack of 4 Swiftclaws with a PW and a Meltagun with a plain, cheap AB, all with Meltabombs, and I join them with a fully-kitted Wolf Lord on a bike (Bike, RA, TH/SS, SotB). The pack is quite expensive (more than 400pts with the said Lord) but absolutely murderous against the IG. Turboboost them along the flank to provide them with a 3+ cover save, hide them behind terrain and vehicles and allocate as many wounds as possible to the Wolf Lord and the AB to prevent losing any fighting strength unless absolutely necessary. If you keep individual models 2 inches from each other (you should always do that, however, not just with the Swiftclaws), you really don't need to be afraid of artillery/Leman Russes, just stay away from massed infantry with Plasmaguns and officers nearby. Before the charge, split the pack up and attack one unit with the Wolf Lord (I prefer to throw him at infantry, especially at Command squads, Ogryns etc.) and one with the humble Swiftclaws (who can be incredibly impotent without a strong leader if pitted against infantry, so I usually use them to destroy armour - a task they absolutely excell at). Either they soak up insane amount of firepower and still destroy something, or they are largely ignored (Swiftclaws are really underrated) and destroy half the IG army themselves.

 

3) Jaws of the World Wolf. Not only do Imperial Guardsmen have low initiative (usually 3) but they are only effective if they have command. Use the JotWW to snipe officers and vox-operators to prevent the Guardsmen from receiving any orders. If none of these are in range, aim for the Commisars, HWT and special weapon troopers, everything else is really just a bonus. Destroy their command and the IG suddenly lose 50% of their strength.

 

As I have already mentioned, maintain maximal coherency. Blast weapons really become a lot less frightening if your models keep their distance from each other. If you get caught in a crater after your transport explodes, don't be afraid to go to ground - if they hit you en masse, blast weapons (such as the ones of LR Executioner) can easily cause a terrible carnage. Otherwise, they are really not that bad and I have lost almost all my respect to the LRs and Guard Artillery. What makes me worried is massed infantry with lots of special weapons and orders, but kill the command or the officers and you're home free.

 

Hope that helps.