Wolf Scouts - How do you rock yours?

[Quannum]

Greetings long-fanged brethren,

 

I'm a relatively experienced 40k player but also relatively new to SW (long story short, I thought I was a Blood Angel, but my feral spirit burst forth and I ditched the pretty boy vampires in favour of the fury of the wolves - reading the 'dex I'm actually sincerely impressed at how GW has written it to encourage stories of epic sagas fought, and oaths fulfilled - THAT'S what a hobby should involve!)

 

Anyway sidetrack over, here's my question:

 

I'm looking to include a unit or two of Wolf Scouts in a 2500-point list for future battles. I have a maximum of 213 points to play with. Here's what I was thinking. Question is, is this unit viable, or would you recommend another setup/multiple units altogether?

 

5 Wolf Scouts - Meltagun - 85pts.

 

led by

 

Wolf Guard - Power Fist, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs - 48pts.

 

I'm mainly interested in any tactica/advice that you think is pertinent to using Scouts - please share your thoughts and opinions and provide justifications where possible! (I tried running a search but the function doesn't seem to be working...)

 

Much obliged all.

 

Q

[Lord Ragnarok]

I would think you could lose the melta bombs as you have the fist.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

I agree with Lord Ragnarok, the meltabombs are redundant. It's a good cheap unit that has a decent chance of fulfilling it's purpose. Other upgrades to consider are plasma pistols (S7 usually is better AT than normal for these guys as they will almost always be shooting at rear or side armor), Mark of the Wulfen (you're likely to be assaulted after popping a tank and this gives you good CC bang for your buck), and more wolf scouts (increased survivability for the pack, and they're decent in close combat). It all depends on how much you want to spend. My scouts are the exact same as yours now, just minus the meltabombs and added one extra body and two plasma pistols (173 pts.). They regularly kill Tau hammerheads and Guard Russes with relative ease and take more than a few fire warriors/guardsmen with them, if they get killed at all.

 

 

Oh, by the way, welcome to the Fang!

[hendrik]

turn that powerfist into a thunderhammer. for only 5 pts extra you gain an additional crew shaken effect. besides, thunderhammers look way cooler too!

for the scouts themselves, switch their close combat weapon out for a sniper rifle for only 3 points extra. sure you lose an attack but now you've got a scouts pack armed with 5 sniper rifles, 4 bolt pistols and a meltagun. this makes them a 100 pts unit that can even do some damage should your OBEL turn out bad, like ending up coming up on the left table edge while your opponent's army is completly deployed to the right etc.

[Lord Ragnarok]

That's an interesting way to mitigate that Hendrik. Have you used this in a few games? How has it worked?

[Wulfebane]

Looks like you follow Adam's blogspot on Scout tactics, so I can't really offer anything. One suggestion I might have, if it's a pack meant to melee (aka no snipers/hvy weaps.) then I would include atleast 1 MotW (or 2 if you give it to your WG Pack Leader, but remember that he'll be the only WG on the table allowed to receive it).

[Captain Talon]

Welcome Brother!

 

I've been playing Wolves from the start back in 99. While I enjoyed an army in Blood Red for a while, I always return to the Grey....

 

Here are my thoughts on Scouts: ( note, this is for a take on all comers list)

 

They wear 4 up armor, and the unit will die fast in combat. Even if you make it a large unit. So keep that in mind.

 

I ran a RavenGuard force that had 30 scouts charging in the first turn. None of those units would ever survive the battle because of the 4 up armor. So I changed and ran several small suicide squads to pop vehicles first turn.

 

Marines, all of them but especially the Wolves, key strength is versatility, so thats what I equip my Wolf scouts for.

 

Weaponry: If you come up from behind an enemy position and there are vehicles, chances are pretty good they have no moved. That means auto hits with meltabombs. Those are a must.

Meltaguns are great, as is the combi melta on the WG. But, that's 2 shots. Meltabombs are more efficient. So, in keeping with my idea of versatility and flexibility, in case my enemy has alot of infantry, or even a small unit of devastators, I like to give my scouts a flamer. You can hit multiple models with them. Against MEQ you should be killing at least as many MEQ as the meltagun would, and the chances are you could kill more. Against anything like guard, orks, tau or eldar, that's alot of fried fleshlings. Just to point out, another negative for the meltagun is that you may miss with the rolls to hit, and 2 meltagun hits are good, with what, a 50-50 chance to kill a vehicle, but still...you have to hit. Meltabombs are a sure thing.

 

So in short, you have meltabombs that either autohit or need 4's to hit ( with 5-8 scouts, you should get 2-3 hits) vehicles, and against enemy backline units you have the flamer to wipe out whole units.

 

But what happens when OBEL goes badly for you? If you fear that, then the rest of the squad should take sniper rifles or bolters. I prefer bolters, because if you want to use your flamer, then you can lay down some rapid fire bolters. If you take sniper rifles, you can still shoot your pistols close range. In fact, now that I am reviewing this, sniper rifles would be the best choice, because Wolf Scouts are the best SM Scouts out there stat wise and that makes sniper rifles a very deadly weapon against big MC types.

 

I don't take the plasma pistol or power weapon options because I think it ends up being wasted points. Smart players will keep counter charge units in their backfield, so the life span of the squad tends to be short.

 

As for the WGBL, I'd take a combi flamer, meltabombs, and maybe a powerfist. Why? again, flexibility and versatility. You might have a dread or MC or IC in the back as a target or counter charge unit...a power fist can take them out before the WGBL dies.

 

So in short, I expect my Wolf Scouts to die quickly, and I kit them out so that I have the flexibility to take on a variety of opponents and threats. Flamers for hordes, meltabombs for vehicles, sniper rifles if I need ranged attacks, and a power fist just in case.

 

I have been toying with an army with 3 10 man scout units, a character with saga of the hunter, and 3 pack leaders. It would make for a nasty suprise to have 34 wolves show up on a flank. However, I hate leaving things to luck, as you might come in piecemeal.

 

That being said, I'm sure someone will pop in and say their scouts never die, you are using bad tactics, give them the power swords and plasmas and melta guns blah blah. I think in the end, your experiences will be the best teacher.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

My scouts are equipped with a meltagun and a plasma pistol (because I wanted one when I saw it on the sprue) and led by a Pack Leader with power fist and combi-melta. I've yet to play a game big enough to warrant taking them.

[hendrik]

That's an interesting way to mitigate that Hendrik. Have you used this in a few games? How has it worked?

the credit goes to adam, and with my game count (only 3 since the new dex!) i haven't tried it yet. but it sounds good though doesn't it? i've once seen my opponent flayed ones come up to my right flank while my complete army was on the left, the unit did nothing for the rest of game besides moving and running

[Dewi Sant]

If your set on taking scouts I would go for

9 scouts, MG, PW 203 Points

WGPL CM, PF 43 Points

10 points left that you can even spend on sniper rifles if you want.

 

Small packs of scout are ok, but they are not going to be around for long. A pack of 9 and a leader with a fist and a PW in the squad will make your opponent think twice about messing with you in CC.

 

If I were you though, I would drop the scouts all together and take a lone wolf with CF, SS, TDA and 2 Wolves. 105 points of kill. I have left my scouts on the shelf since I started running this bad boy.

[rodgambit]

Huge drawback to running the lone wolf though is mobility. I ran one this weekend and with move+run in a DoW deployment game he didn't reach the enemy until turn 5. My buddy even asked if I had scouts in my list because they would have been much more useful in an objective game using OBEL. I've run scouts in a variety of list and even though they can get pricey, I really like them because it is one of the things space wolves do well and that are unique to our codex. If you play an army that pushes forward they will obviously have less of an impact or if you roll an unlucky 1 or 2. I've had good sucess running 6-8 with meltabombs and setting up multi target charges.

[Quannum]

Wow, Wolf brothers sure are active arent they?! Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

I'm going to playtest the 5 man melta squad led by the Wolf Guard with Fist/Melta. This leaves me with 80 points.

 

@DewiSant - I have actually been toying with the idea of a cheap Lone Wolf as a compliment. I'm interested in your loadout, what choices have you made and why play him - convince me?!

 

Keep it up, brothers.

 

A-ROOOOOOO!

 

Q

[Bulweih]

Welcome to the Fang brother!

 

In games of 2k+ you can easily bring two packs of scouts, maximising the chance that at least one pack arrives where it's needed and wanted. Besides really liking the idea of my elite scouts surviving the battle, I'm not making it my aim, first and foremost their mission (popping tanks for example) is their sole focus.

They don't have to be a one shot weapon, but more often than not, they are.

If your opponent knows what he's doing and your scouts appeared behind his lines or any given spot where they can deal out lots of pain, he's likely to kill them the following turn one way or the other.

So, try to make their shot count. After your experiences with that Ravenguard force that should be easy.

 

My WG attached to scout packs always has a hammer for all the good reasons brother Hendrik already put in, except the one called hardhanded, he has two powerfists-but that's another story ;) .

I'm a fan of a combi-flamer for the WG, for meeting infantry, but that's personal taste.

 

The scouts have the meltagun, meltabombs and sniper rifles to counter a bad roll on the chart. Versatile and Awesome in one small package, I'm very fond of them.

 

 

Lone Wolves are another matter, there are long discussions about how to run them. Maybe try the searchy on them alone for better results.

For my part, I do run them either cheap or expensive or a combination of both. There's no right or wrong really, it depends on your playstyle and gusto for the most part.

 

I have two in TDA, one has a Chainfist and shield while the other one has a Thunderhammer and a shield, both run with two Fen. wolves.

 

Another one of my LW has Servo armour, Plasmapistol, Stormshield and Mark of the Wulfen plus two Wolves-he's a bane for all infantry and can give chase when the enemy runs which is a big PLUS against the guys above.

 

That's my two cents on the matter.

[Rain Finale]

Another one of my LW has Servo armour, Plasmapistol, Stormshield and Mark of the Wulfen plus two Wolves-he's a bane for all infantry and can give chase when the enemy runs which is a big PLUS against the guys above.

 

What's servo armor?

[Xeenos]

Im guessing he means Runic Armor.

[Captain Talon]

Welcome to the Fang brother!

 

In games of 2k+ you can easily bring two packs of scouts, maximising the chance that at least one pack arrives where it's needed and wanted. Besides really liking the idea of my elite scouts surviving the battle, I'm not making it my aim, first and foremost their mission (popping tanks for example) is their sole focus.

They don't have to be a one shot weapon, but more often than not, they are.

If your opponent knows what he's doing and your scouts appeared behind his lines or any given spot where they can deal out lots of pain, he's likely to kill them the following turn one way or the other.

So, try to make their shot count. After your experiences with that Ravenguard force that should be easy.

 

People had fits with my Ravenguard scouts...but the army only worked if I had first turn. 30 scouts making a first turn assault with an assault squad and strike would hurt, but it didn't have the staying power to win games, unless I played a Guard mech force. Nothing like popping 7 tanks/chims on turn 1!!!!

 

In the competitive scene, you want to minimize the effect luck has on your game, hence why I stopped playing the Ravenguard, and hence why I equip scouts the way I do.

[Bulweih]

What's servo armor?

 

Oh sorry guys, I meant power armor. Just got a little mixed up with the languages :P .

 

 

Aunt Edith says: Rain Finale, you really caught me on a bad day there, sorry for the fuzz.

[Rain Finale]

What's servo armor?

 

Oh sorry guys, I meant either power or runic armor, depending on the points I can spare. Just got a little mixed up with the languages :P .

 

You mean either power armor or TDA (Tactical Dreadnought Armor a.k.a. terminator armor)? Lone Wolves can't take Runic armor according to my Codex .

[Dewi Sant]

Wow, Wolf brothers sure are active arent they?! Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

I'm going to playtest the 5 man melta squad led by the Wolf Guard with Fist/Melta. This leaves me with 80 points.

 

@DewiSant - I have actually been toying with the idea of a cheap Lone Wolf as a compliment. I'm interested in your loadout, what choices have you made and why play him - convince me?!

 

Keep it up, brothers.

 

A-ROOOOOOO!

 

Q

 

Lone wolves are really good but you have to use him right. Its important to get him in your opponents face asap! Once he is there he will hold up your opponent on end. In large point games I will pop him in a empty LR to get him up field. You don't even need to hug cover as the SS gives him a ++3 save and he has his two wolves to dish out the wounds on.

 

I use mine to smash walkers, hunt tanks and fix troops in position giving me freedom of movement around the board.

 

 

Scouts are good but they are a bit one trick pony. Once they make it on the board I would be surprised if they last more than 1 turn of your opponents shooting and they always have the chance of not even turning up till turn 5.

[WG Vrox]

Scouts are good but they are a bit one trick pony. Once they make it on the board I would be surprised if they last more than 1 turn of your opponents shooting and they always have the chance of not even turning up till turn 5.

 

 

The trick to a scouts survival is to make sure the scouts are providing support and not left in the middle of your opponent's main force all alone. Sure you might get a tank, but odds are about 50/50 depending on how many points you spend on the unit. and either way they most likely will be dead on your opponents next turn.

 

Instead use them to support a full out drop pod assault or if you want a smaller Drop Pod force, you can drop in on a strong flank on turn 1. If your opponent turns their force in response, bring the scouts in near your drop pod force to reinforce them while taking out any targets of opportunity that presents itself.

 

5 scouts, Melta Gun 85 points or go sniper rifles for 100. only upgrade other than that should be MotW. always a WG in PA Combi-Melta / Thunder Hammer.

[Valerian]

I love my Wolf Scouts. Definitely my favorite unit. I have creamed Blood Angels Assault Squads with my Scouts. I've got two packs that are exactly the same, consisting of 8 Marines, 1 with Melta Gun, 1 with Plasma Pistol, 1 with Power Weapon, and 1 with MotW. Each have a Wolf Guard Leader with Combi-Melta and Thunder Hammer. Expensive, but they bring so much capability, and synergize well with my other forces in Drop Pods.

 

Valerian

[LoneSniperSG]

Mine are still set up in the old-school way:

 

5x Wolf Scouts, Meltagun, Plasma Pistol, Plasma Pistol, Missile Launcher, bolter.

 

Also have 6x Wolf Scouts with sniper rifles.

 

Neither pack is used very much. By the time I dump in everything I really want, there's no points for Scouts.

[Toasterfree]

I have been running mine in this config since 3rd ed with little to no problems.

 

5 scouts, 1 melta gun, melta bombs, power weapon.

 

i have have times where the melta would not penetrate that land raider so i had to bomb it. or if i dont wreck/explode that tank i assault it. i dont put wolf guard with them, they are just a go kill big tank unit (usually doubling the points that I lost) unit. heck, i have even shot a tank, didnt kill it and was able to assault two with them.

[Kami]

since I haven't seen this cheap setup posted by anyone, here's mine:

 

5 Wolf Scouts w/ meltagun & Wolf Guard w/ combimelta

 

I found that I never needed the powerfist and removed it to save points, since the meltas did their work. As a backup there are always some krak grenades left, and don't forget your bolt bistols vs rear armour, they can help!

 

The Scouts lead my IG opponents not to deploying their Russes forward, but back on their own table edge, so that I can't get back shots at all. I wonder what to do when they start blocking also their side armour with other cheaper tanks like artillery in this way. So no multi-charging and no chance to get the middle tank at all.

 

Anyone ran into that problem?

[Vlk]

since I haven't seen this cheap setup posted by anyone, here's mine:

 

5 Wolf Scouts w/ meltagun & Wolf Guard w/ combimelta

 

I found that I never needed the powerfist and removed it to save points, since the meltas did their work. As a backup there are always some krak grenades left, and don't forget your bolt bistols vs rear armour, they can help!

 

The Scouts lead my IG opponents not to deploying their Russes forward, but back on their own table edge, so that I can't get back shots at all. I wonder what to do when they start blocking also their side armour with other cheaper tanks like artillery in this way. So no multi-charging and no chance to get the middle tank at all.

 

Anyone ran into that problem?

 

Against Guard? Yep. I just stopped attacking his tanks (that's what I have Swiftclaws, lascannons and melta-totting Grey Hunters for) and used the Wolf Scouts to kill his Command Squad and/or Heavy Weapon Teams/troops. I run them with a Power Fist just for the case they either run into something with rear AV11 (LR Executioner comes to mind) or there is a non-armour target of opportunity, such as the said Command Squad (and if you kill these, your Guardsman buddy will hate you).