New BRB FAQ and Blood Lance..

[appiah4]

Q: What psychic powers count as psychic shooting

attacks? (p50)

A: Any psychic power with a profile like that of a

ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP

value) and any psychic power that specifically states

that it is a psychic shooting attack.

Q: Do psychic shooting attacks need to roll to hit? (p50)

A: Yes.

 

My understanding is that Blood Lance, like Jaws of the World Wolf, now has to roll a to hit for each target?

 

It has a range (2d6"), Strengh (8) and AP value (AP1), and states specifically that it is a psychic shooting attack, and does not mention hitting automatically..

 

(Or is this the way it always was?)

[sp4rky]

The rules for Blood Lance state "...suffers a S8 AP1 hit...". That implies to me that it's already hit so doesn't need to roll.

[JamesI]

Some powers (Blood Lance, Jaws, Murderous Hurricane) are psychic shooting attacks, but based on the wording do not require hit rolls.

 

Blood Lance does not require a to hit roll. If it did it would go from being overrated (in my opinion) to near worthless.

[appiah4]

Well, I may be wrong, but I keep going back and reading the Blood Lance rules and I can't decide.

 

The rule does state that "Any enemy unit in the lance's path suffers a Single S8 AP1 hit with the 'lance' type'" but it doesn't state it automatically hits..

 

I'm sort of leaning towards not needing to roll because it states that the unit suffers the hit de facto..

[Grey Mage]

You cant roll to hit a target that doesnt exist. Blood Lance doesnt have a target at the time of casting, no roll to hit is needed.

 

Its a psychic shooting attack because it takes the place of firing your bolt pistol.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

From the BRB FAQ:

 

"Any psychic power with a profile like that of a ranged weapon (i.e. has a range, strength and AP value) and any psychic power that specifically states

that it is a psychic shooting attack."

 

Seems pretty cut and dry to me. This includes JAWS and Blood Lance.

 

G

[knife&fork]

Well, I may be wrong, but I keep going back and reading the Blood Lance rules and I can't decide.

 

The rule does state that "Any enemy unit in the lance's path suffers a Single S8 AP1 hit with the 'lance' type'" but it doesn't state it automatically hits..

 

I'm sort of leaning towards not needing to roll because it states that the unit suffers the hit de facto..

 

There is no automatic hit USR, by the wording it's clear that any unit in range takes a single hit, no mention of having to roll anything.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You roll to hit immediately after you pass the psychic test.

 

G ;)

[StJude]

The wording seems clear to me too.

 

As much as it chagrins me to say, as Black Orange stated:

 

"You roll to hit immediately after you pass the psychic test"

 

It does not make it near worthless either though in my opinion.

[Master Of Malfeasance X]

I would concede the argument instantly if that meant jaws also had to roll to hit.

[knife&fork]

You roll to hit immediately after you pass the psychic test.

 

G :P

 

You don't, because every unit in it's path suffers a hit. You don't roll to see if you hit, it just does.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I would concede the argument instantly if that meant jaws also had to roll to hit.

 

Why must we inflame?

 

If interested, this is being debated in the SW forum. If you join the please be civil.

[Lanfear]

You roll to hit immediately after you pass the psychic test.

 

G B)

 

You don't, because every unit in it's path suffers a hit. You don't roll to see if you hit, it just does.

 

this :)

[Morticon]

there are two stuff ups with this faq. one is the above mentioned nonsense, which is causing all sorts of debate.

the faq has essentially vitoed the rule in the relevant codicies.

this goes for fear too.

its dumb, and irresponsible, but its very clear. faq trumps codex.

 

the other issue is double castings of powers (usually failed). The rules completely support double casting of non-shooting powers. but this too has been oddly over-ruled.

[eyeslikethunder]

I would say its a template style weapon so no roll to hit plus it states any thing in the way is hit. So there is no need to hit something that already hit. This FAQ clarification was for Living lightning a lot people were not rolling to hit now know they have to.

 

on Page 50, Psykers

 

"The psychic powers available to our models are not discussed further here, but are described in detail in the Codexes, where you will find complete rules for individual powers. The following general rules explain how psychic are employed. EXCEPTIONS to these rules are covered in the Codexes."

 

 

I would say that the fact the codex states it hits makes it exception to this rule.

[Morticon]

I would say that the fact the codex states it hits makes it exception to this rule.

 

matey, youre right - however, the faq doesnt allow for execptions. Its a blanket rule. Is it a psychic shooting power? if yes, then it must roll to hit. Essentially the faq has over-ruled the exceptions by RAW.

[eyeslikethunder]

If they had put it the amendments or errata section I would agree but they have not

 

By your statement even template PSA have roll to hit I dont think so.

[knife&fork]

Lance doesn't even have a normal profile like living lightning or smite. Just an effect.

[eyeslikethunder]

Lance doesn't even have a normal profile like living lightning or smite. Just an effect.

 

 

Exactly these are the powers the FAQ are refering to which a lot of people do not roll to hit with.

 

But key fact with BL is it states that it hits defining its difference from a default PSA as P50 of the BRB states codexes can.

[SamaNagol]

Codex > Rulebook

 

It auto hits

[Morticon]

Codex > Rulebook

 

It auto hits

 

and

 

faq > codex > rulebook.

 

so what now?u

 

it doesnt matter if it has a profile or an effect, its a PSA- based on that alone, we have enough information.

People are interpreting this based on intuition and common sense - but sadly thats not whats been ruled for us.

 

eyeslikethunder - youve said twice now that this faq was for certain powers like living lightning, that were being played incorrectly. Now while that may be the case, its not what has been said or ruled. And we cant divine faq intent - only faq rules as they are written.

 

gw have created a very specific contradiction in their rules here- and a very blatant one at that.

 

just as they overruled /changed double casting of single powers (perfectly acceptable by the rules), they have overruled the auto hit of certain powers. Its painfully obvious that its not the intent, but how can we cherry pick certain overruled issues and not others?

[eyeslikethunder]

Codex > Rulebook

 

It auto hits

 

and

 

faq > codex > rulebook.

 

so what now?u

 

it doesnt matter if it has a profile or an effect, its a PSA- based on that alone, we have enough information.

People are interpreting this based on intuition and common sense - but sadly thats not whats been ruled for us.

 

eyeslikethunder - youve said twice now that this faq was for certain powers like living lightning, that were being played incorrectly. Now while that may be the case, its not what has been said or ruled. And we cant divine faq intent - only faq rules as they are written.

 

gw have created a very specific contradiction in their rules here- and a very blatant one at that.

 

just as they overruled /changed double casting of single powers (perfectly acceptable by the rules), they have overruled the auto hit of certain powers. Its painfully obvious that its not the intent, but how can we cherry pick certain overruled issues and not others?

 

 

 

By ignoring the powers which state they autohit and it seems foolish to make PSA flamer template weapons and like have roll to hit even thought they have been excepted from that.

 

I would argue it is not very blatant ,very blatant would be if it stated "ALL PSA have roll to hit even it previously stated otherwise"

[knife&fork]

faq > codex > rulebook.

 

FAQ clarifies, errata overrules.

[JamesI]

I see this FAQ as being about the Big Rule Book. Its a clarification that PSAs still need to roll to hit.

 

There are exceptions, just as in shooting there are exceptions to needing to hit.

 

My other army is Thousand Sons. Is someone really going to claim I need to roll to hit when I use Wind of Chaos (flame template power). Really?

 

Its the same for Blood Lance and Jaws in my opinion.

[overkongen]

There are exceptions to almost any rule, so there is no reason there can't be one to the "All PSA must roll to hit"-rule. If your codex says the PSA hits automatically or something is hit when you use the PSA I would not roll a to-hit dice.