Brother Xeones Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I was reading through the FAQ updates to the BRB and noticed this: Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50) A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise. This seems to be mostly for GK using things like Hammerhand, but I was wondering if this would effect Fear of the Darkness for BA. Hypothetically, what if a librarian targets a squad with Fear of the Darkness. The target unit takes the required leadership test with a -2 leadership modifier, but still passes. Now a second librarian (or librarian dread) targets the same unit again with FotD. Do they simply take a second test again at a -2 leadership or do they now have to take the second test at -4? I'm assuming they don't stack and the effects of the first FotD cast do not linger so as to be stackable with the second attempt, but I wanted a wider set of opinions. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Yorei Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 no the effects of this ability will not stack as they are separate tests. each time they test will be a -2. the -2 goes away after they test so the next tesrt will start it over again. would be a differant story if you did all the psychic abilities at the same time but each is done separately. would be awesome cheese if you could do that though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792425 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slyfox1990 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 no the effects of this ability will not stack as they are separate tests. each time they test will be a -2. the -2 goes away after they test so the next tesrt will start it over again. would be a differant story if you did all the psychic abilities at the same time but each is done separately. would be awesome cheese if you could do that though. Would have to agree with this also Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792446 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Glad to hear we're in agreement then. Thanks for the replies! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 mmm, what if you have 2 libarians in the same unit casting the power?casue then its at the same time...? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 mmm, what if you have 2 libarians in the same unit casting the power?casue then its at the same time...? The procedure is just the same for each test, just like shooting two S4 weapons doesn't produce a S8 hit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792564 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarSpirit Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 They would stack if FotD would give to the target unit a -2 to all Ld test made in the turn. But that's not the case. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792658 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 As mentioned, no it doesn't stack. However, if they fail the first check, and you cast FotD on them again, they will fall back again (as falling back units auto-fail morale, and page 45 of the BRB says that "Units make a fall back move immediately after failing a Morale test."). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792712 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 EEP! This is gonna make me look like a cheese monster, but after having gone back and reading the fear power, and reading the faq i see absolutely no reason why two libbies in a squad wont stack. especially since its done simultaneously. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792978 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 the reason against the stacking has been the arguments of "instances" or timing of the power. however, much like the ruling on the psychic shooting powers that require to hit rolls, even though their rules explicitly say otherwise, the faq has made no mention of timing or instances. the faq stipulates that effects of the same power cast multiple times stack. thats it. no mention of timing or instances or anything else. if we go down a check list; 1: cast power1 2: cast power2 3: is it the same? 4: follow faq if yes. (in short, we can apply the faq intuitively or as raw - just like psychic shooting. if we are in the camp that we must roll to hit for things like jaws, i belive youd be hardpressed to argue against fear stacking without contradicting yourself) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeslikethunder Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Morticon=Cheese monster :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 the reason against the stacking has been the arguments of "instances" or timing of the power. By this logic shooting a model with a plasma and bolter from the same unit at the same time would mean no armor save for the bolter shot. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 knife, not sure how you figure that, or how its relevant with regards this particular issue. Im also pretty sure theres no faq for that - unlike this issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2792998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 knife, not sure how you figure that, or how its relevant with regards this particular issue. Im also pretty sure theres no faq for that - unlike this issue. The power makes the target unit take a ld test at -2, it doesn't give the target -2 ld and forces a ld test. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2793022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamaNagol Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Morticon.... Fear of Darkness forces a unit to take a Ld test at -2. There are no remain in play effects for this. Casting 2 FotD powers from the same unit at the same time at the same target still will not stack because they are 2 independent Ld tests with no remain in play effect. They are separate instances Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2793045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Morticon.... Fear of Darkness forces a unit to take a Ld test at -2. There are no remain in play effects for this. Casting 2 FotD powers from the same unit at the same time at the same target still will not stack because they are 2 independent Ld tests with no remain in play effect. They are separate instances Sama - toooootally, totally with you on that. The issue i have is that the faq doesnt make any proviso for "remain in play effects" or separate instances. It simply says same power modifiers stack. I can see the argument for separate attacks- but libbies in the same squad? To me, since shooting is simultaneous it looks like the target unit makes one test at -4. Im trying to consolidate the logic of this, with the ruling. Im trying to understand why "That unit must immediately take a morale test with a -2 penalty to their ld." and "same power modifiers stack" exempts fear because its an instant (something the faq makes no proviso for, as noted). That sounds like us interpreting it in a way that (makes.sense but) is not in accordance with the ruling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2793055 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 lol that only mort seems to get what i was intending. and no its nothing like firing a plasma gun and a bolter, its the same power twice at the same time so more like firing 2 plasma guns... if the ibbys are in seperate units then theres no problem as on must go before the other. however if both are in the same unit they are both hitting at the same time exactly. therefore it appears to me that the -2 from both powers is probably combined as per the faq because the timing is the same, and that the unit has to take 2 leadership tests. no?sounds nasty but then you have to pay for 2 libarinas and a unit to join them to...theres 300 atleast and has no effect against fearless units and most units will possibly rally next turn just futher away...oh and that also means no other hqs.... might be worth trying though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2793100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 lol that only mort seems to get what i was intending. and no its nothing like firing a plasma gun and a bolter, its the same power twice at the same time so more like firing 2 plasma guns... if the ibbys are in seperate units then theres no problem as on must go before the other. however if both are in the same unit they are both hitting at the same time exactly. therefore it appears to me that the -2 from both powers is probably combined as per the faq because the timing is the same, and that the unit has to take 2 leadership tests. no?sounds nasty but then you have to pay for 2 libarinas and a unit to join them to...theres 300 atleast and has no effect against fearless units and most units will possibly rally next turn just futher away...oh and that also means no other hqs.... might be worth trying though... All shooting is assumed to happen simultaneously. That's why we work out all hits, wounds, saves and other effects before applying the results. Even though some attacks might not need a roll to hit, wound automatically or disallows saves. Why would "fear" stack? It's a morale test taken at -2 ld, that's very different from a unit getting reduced ld. However, If fear was a status buff or neg like hammerhand it would stack. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2793117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Xeones Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 Bwahaha! Now you see my quandary. I still think I'd play it as two separate tests at -2, but you see how the new FAQ makes things a little more complicated to figure out. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232155-stacking-the-effects-of-multiple-fotd/#findComment-2793335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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