Astorath fluff issuess

[Brother Nathan]

astro... hes supposed to kill not only all the chapters surviving death co which before him were put in stasis and brought to baal and locked in a tower(which was a good reason for noone to attack baal or who knows how many could be released...)but now he apparently is at evry battlefeild where death co are used to take the heads of surviving death co... alll of them, on his own...and jot ust ba ones too, apparently he does in the succesor chapter ones too....

[Arkangilos]

astro... hes supposed to kill not only all the chapters surviving death co which before him were put in stasis and brought to baal and locked in a tower(which was a good reason for noone to attack baal or who knows how many could be released...)but now he apparently is at evry battlefeild where death co are used to take the heads of surviving death co... alll of them, on his own...and jot ust ba ones too, apparently he does in the succesor chapter ones too....

 

Oh yeah, that. Well I was under the impression that he did not kill all of the DC (though I know he went from chapter to chapter), but only the ones who were too far gone to be put in stasis. It still makes referances to the Tower and screams, though IIRC.

[Leonaides]

Well, he only needs to go there if they dont die in battle anyway... so he doesnt actually need to go to every single battlefield. Maybe he does a round of chapter fortresses like a milkman?

"Any DC for me today Mr Chapter Master?... No, ok well I'll see you next year."

[Brother Nathan]

i dont know about your marines but i would only want my chapters head chaplin to be responsible for my chapters marins in that way, i really dont imagine seth phoning up dante and asking him to sent astro cause he has a few more lads that need sorting... cause that would end up being a big phone bill at the end of th month... though might explain why they dont bother repainting their armour as they cant afford it...

[Arkangilos]

I understand your point. I still stick by mine though. And I actually like what Leonaides said. Maybe they keep them locked up until he gets there, and he might only make his rounds every year or every 5 years or what not. And there is nothing to say that they don't do it themselves if you think of it. I mean, it says he is the one responsible for it, but there is always the, "What is official is not always the case" thing. You know, like the Grey Knights are the "Official" deamon killers, yet we all know that other chapters kill deamons too.

 

Same thing. He is the "official" executor, but others can and will when they need to, or want to. Also, I believe it said that all of the chapters agreed that it would be Ast, not just the BA.

[Brother Nathan]

that would be possible if that was his only job... but you do realise he also is the current blood angels high chaplin and therefore has all the jobs that that brings to fufil too... and that also brings other things to the table with all the other responsibility of being a blood angel brings too. and the length of time it would take going round the other chapters. and that he is still a warrior and is made to fight! they could hae just made him the blood angels high chaplin with an awsome axe... but apparently not only does he not wear the colours of a chaplin, and dosent wear a skull nor carry a crosium(so he only has roseries) its just a :) character, they did far more than they needed. dont get mer wrong though i love the model and the rules, i just painted him gold and he counts as my storm angels chapter master...(a fair few others do this too...) to be honest from what ive seen some of the deamon hunters stuff is worse.

comparibly the sanguinators vague fluff is far preferable to me...

[Leonaides]

Yep - he's the BA's current High Chaplain, so he is the titular head of the body responsible for overseeing and 'deling with' the Death Company. We have the Sanguinary Priesthood to deal with our chapter Rites... So, as the guy ultimately responsible for deling with Death Company, its only right that it falls to him to bring peace to those who were unfortunate enough not to die before the madness took them - why should another brother have to bear the responsibiliyt of killing a fellow scion of Sanguinius? Let alone waht might happen if another brother got a bit too used to killing his bretheren...? Its a duty, a particularly onerous duty at that, and I suspect all the other marines are 'happy' for him to do it instead of making them kill their battle-brothers. He still fights, maybe he spends a few months with each chapter, accompanying them to war and dealing with the aftermath of the DC survivors, then moves on to the next chapter.

[Brother Nathan]

if he did that when woul he serve his own responsibilitys to his chapter? he does still hav rites etc all to preform. still has to oversee the chaplincy and promote them etc. never mind that the chaplincy is directly linked into the leadership of the chapter unlike the other chapters in case of the next in command falling to the rage etc... i really dont see other chapters wanting or alowing him to do his work on them, surely that would be a job for their own high chaplins...

[Arkangilos]

Yep - he's the BA's current High Chaplain, so he is the titular head of the body responsible for overseeing and 'deling with' the Death Company. We have the Sanguinary Priesthood to deal with our chapter Rites... So, as the guy ultimately responsible for deling with Death Company, its only right that it falls to him to bring peace to those who were unfortunate enough not to die before the madness took them - why should another brother have to bear the responsibiliyt of killing a fellow scion of Sanguinius? Let alone waht might happen if another brother got a bit too used to killing his bretheren...? Its a duty, a particularly onerous duty at that, and I suspect all the other marines are 'happy' for him to do it instead of making them kill their battle-brothers. He still fights, maybe he spends a few months with each chapter, accompanying them to war and dealing with the aftermath of the DC survivors, then moves on to the next chapter.

 

 

This is how I see it, and how it should be.

 

Remember, the spiritual aspect is left to the Sanguinary Priests, as is the cure for the curse. Dealing with the curse is left to the Chaplains. That means it is his responsibility to deal with the DC.

 

And it is easy, he deligates his authority to the next Chaplain, such as a reclusiarch.

 

It even says in the Codex that that is his responisibility. It doesn't say anything else, but that. He is the redeemer of the lost.

[Brother Nathan]

that also means he has the problem of actually getting round all the chapters. mmm i can see in our next dex a deamon telling mephy 'sorry i delivered the message to the wrong dude, can you pass on what i said to astro, all this traveling in th warp to kill your own brothers takes its toll on you, ya know'

[The Crimson Cartel]

Bah, it's garbage fluff...

 

He's a cool character for sure, but his background, duties, etc are ridiculous! ^_^ It's been discussed in other threads before. Lemmy falls, Asto takes his place.. fine. Lemmy falls, Asto takes his place, has to be everywhere at once, and kills leftover DC instead of keepin em on ice to use for later (like it used to be) .. Garbage. Our fluff got Wardified.. Hard. :P

 

-CC

[Arkangilos]

Limmy was never the High Chaplain in the new fluff. Astro was High Chaplain when he fell, and said he resisted well enough to fight and lead DC.

 

Astro doesn't go everywhere at once. Like I had said before, he makes his rounds. Until he is there, the chapter locks up the DC. Once he is there, he deals with the problem.

 

Good Fluff, Good Background, Good Job. He redeems the lost. He offers them death. He is like the Grim Reaper.

 

I have yet to see anything wrong with Ward's fluff, to be honest.

[Leonaides]

I have yet to see anything wrong with Ward's fluff, to be honest.

I'm sooooo tempted to sig that... I dont think I've ever seen that written before, and I doubt it'll ever come up again!

[Red Fury]

Bah, it's garbage fluff...

+1. And not only Astorats either.

 

Limmy was never the High Chaplain in the new fluff.

And that makes it even more wrong and totally botched, not better! :lol:

 

I have yet to see anything wrong with Ward's fluff, to be honest.

^_^ Oh! I get it... you're kidding! Man you had me going there for a minute...

[Arkangilos]

Am I kidding?

 

Well, I do wish Lemartes was still the High Chaplain, and I wish he still had dominance over the Rage like he used to (though he "still does" just not the same). He was just that much a hero.

 

However, as for fluff writing, I don't really see a problem. Its solid, and it makes sense. I may wish the Lemartes part was not changed, but its not "stupid."

[Something Wycked]

As for me, my Blood Wolves don't call on Astorath- my Chapter's leadership plays it like the leadership of US military officers: "My men are MY responsibility, and no :) from another Chapter will handle their problems for me."

[toaae]

Am I kidding?

 

Well, I do wish Lemartes was still the High Chaplain, and I wish he still had dominance over the Rage like he used to (though he "still does" just not the same). He was just that much a hero.

 

However, as for fluff writing, I don't really see a problem. Its solid, and it makes sense. I may wish the Lemartes part was not changed, but its not "stupid."

 

I'm glad to finally see someone else who doesn't follow the pack like a sheep. Ward's fluff may not being the best writing ever, but it stands up to previous fluff. The problem every fool has with it is that they take all the fluff literally, as though there is no mystery, and the implications that might be are, in fact, the new fluff.

 

Like Astoroth, for example. Going by some of the posts in this thread, the fluff clearly indicates that our new high chaplain is everywhere at once. Which is funny, since when I read it, it makes no implications about that. Just that he, and he alone, is given the dreaded responsibility of executing the fallen brothers. Obviously, no one has any imagination, and can't just figure that until he arrives, they Death Company members are kept in stasis. We now have to be literally told every detail, or it's bad fluff.

 

I like what Ward did with our fluff. Before, the Death Company were just doomed to stasis. Now, Astoroth, and the High Chaplains before him, offer them a final peace, a redemption. Much like Apothecaries do for normal, fatally injured marines.

 

We have more character now.

[Nemesor]

Astorath can be rationalised to a point, but it still seems a pretty stupid thing to do on the part of every Chapter involved.

 

You need a LOT of stasis chambers if Astorath only shows up every decade or whatever (seriously not possible to do so more frequently than 2 years at the very least), and Astorath will be doing a LOT of traveling, he wouldn't have a whole lot of time to actually be High Chaplain for the BA really. Plus, with Astorath away for so long, how the heck are they going to know he hasn't been killed or lost in the warp?

 

When instead every successor Chapter could have appointed a Chaplain of their own to the duty, thus allowing Astorath and all the others to do their actual job in addition to the killing of DC guys, being far more efficient and a lot less stupid.

 

 

It just really reads as an obvious attempt to make a character more shiny than is plausible in the setting. Ife he'd only done the duty for BA, nobody would have a problem, but Ward had to extend it to all successors to big up his new character. And in so doing, made a chunk of fluff that most sane people in the setting would look at and say something like:

 

'That seems a little inefficient, Dante, no offense.'

[toaae]

The chapters of the 9th legion are close. The burden of executing the honor fallen was given to one person. This does make sense. We must remember that this isn't a sci-fi setting, but a fantasy setting in the future. It isn't even close to the craziest thing suggested in fluff.

[Nemesor]

Sure, Beastmen were once part of the Imperium, there are some major plot holes in the Emperor's psyker policies and the way things turned out in 40k, some major characters make monumentally stupid decisions over the 10,000 years the setting has been going.

 

But Astorath is a special character that sees a lot of tabletop use, he's a much more immediate object of focus than the Emperor et al. And it's only natural that people seeing this guy all the time would like his damn fluff to be a bit better-written. As it is he's a Mary Sue, and one with no real redeeming factors. This isn't Astorath's fault, it's the muppet who wrote him. Maybe in a future edition of the Codex Astorath's fluff will be brought back into plausibility a bit.

 

Also, Ward gets bashed for a reason. The anger isn't totally unfounded. People who are dissatisfied with his work in 40k are entitled to their opinions, no need for anyone to belittle anyone else for their attitudes. Equally people who don't have a problem with it are entitled to theirs. I think we should all remember that debate is healthy, but there is a fine line between debate and being insulting. Keep that in mind and nobody gets a slap on the wrist from the mods, eh? :P

[Arkangilos]

Am I kidding?

 

Well, I do wish Lemartes was still the High Chaplain, and I wish he still had dominance over the Rage like he used to (though he "still does" just not the same). He was just that much a hero.

 

However, as for fluff writing, I don't really see a problem. Its solid, and it makes sense. I may wish the Lemartes part was not changed, but its not "stupid."

 

I'm glad to finally see someone else who doesn't follow the pack like a sheep. Ward's fluff may not being the best writing ever, but it stands up to previous fluff. The problem every fool has with it is that they take all the fluff literally, as though there is no mystery, and the implications that might be are, in fact, the new fluff.

 

Like Astoroth, for example. Going by some of the posts in this thread, the fluff clearly indicates that our new high chaplain is everywhere at once. Which is funny, since when I read it, it makes no implications about that. Just that he, and he alone, is given the dreaded responsibility of executing the fallen brothers. Obviously, no one has any imagination, and can't just figure that until he arrives, they Death Company members are kept in stasis. We now have to be literally told every detail, or it's bad fluff.

 

I like what Ward did with our fluff. Before, the Death Company were just doomed to stasis. Now, Astoroth, and the High Chaplains before him, offer them a final peace, a redemption. Much like Apothecaries do for normal, fatally injured marines.

 

We have more character now.

 

I agree with this.

 

You need a LOT of stasis chambers if Astorath only shows up every decade or whatever

 

Tower of the Lost? You know, store them into a tower until he arrives. Also, you have to remember, MOST death company die in battle, and many who do not are sent into another battle. It is only those that survive a long chain of battles, and become to unstable that are executed.

 

Again again, I repeat what I say earlier, it is "officially" his job. That does not mean that others do not do it, just that he does it as part of his MO.

 

Also, Ward gets bashed for a reason. The anger isn't totally unfounded. People who are dissatisfied with his work in 40k are entitled to their opinions, no need for anyone to belittle anyone else for their attitudes. Equally people who don't have a problem with it are entitled to theirs. I think we should all remember that debate is healthy, but there is a fine line between debate and being insulting. Keep that in mind and nobody gets a slap on the wrist from the mods, eh?

 

Except no one starts the "Ward is good" arguement. Everyone ALWAYS says something along the lines of, "Because Ward ruined the fluff." Or say something insulting about Ward. Then when someone says they don't have a problem with Ward, they flip out about it and say that person is stupid, and must have no bearing in the fluff. Its the Anit-Ward haters that start it, and the "we have no problem with ward" people that get in trouble. And from what I've seen, the reason he gets bashed isn't all that great anyways. Like the Ultra's, he hasn't said anything new about the Ultra's, even before Ward they were considered the best chapter (though I, as a BA, don't see it that way). So as long as the Ward-Bashers keep it to themselves, us Ward-Defenders will keep it to ourselves.

[toaae]

I have yet to see anything wrong with Ward's fluff, to be honest.

:) Oh! I get it... you're kidding! Man you had me going there for a minute...

 

This is belittling. And this is exactly the kind of response we get whenever we defend Ward's writing. There is no debate. It's always stated, matter-of-factly, that Ward is an idiot who is ruining all the fluff. Anyone stating otherwise gets met with the same "oh, you're a joke" condescending attitude.

 

Now, if we want a debate about the merits of the fluff Mr. Ward has written, then lets have one. But lets leave the defensive. "no-need-to-get-insulting" attitude at the door. It's just as bad.

[Ranwulf]

Huh, I always thought he would go in some type of schedule, and each chapter would try to send their battle brothers to death as much as possible!

 

I know that it says he goes where he is needed, but I think like the Feast of Blades, Astorath goes to each chapter Fortress Monastary. He would work like a contact between the Blood Angels and the others sucessors.

 

About Ward, don't hate him, but I disliked his work on Draigo. Loved Pedro Kantor though. I think he writes more about the achievements of Space Marines instead of theirs personality, however I liked the Blood Angels search for perfection and stoic demeanour to the Black Rage.

 

Ran

[Redo]

Here is another who finds Astorath's fluff a little too much. I think the notion that he travels the galaxy and deals with all DC that are too far gone is too implausible. To be fair I find the concept new and invigorating but prefer to believe that every chapter has their version of Astorath that deals with their DC.

 

On a fluff note, Ward's fluff has some great elements but there is too much inconsistency from previous editions, ie the developements contradict or do not match with what has gone before or it is just a little too grandiose.

[cptphoenixck]

Matt Ward does occasionally make good fluff, interesting fluff, but I've yet to see the execution of said fluff stand up to the ideas however. It must be said though in this case he screwed up royally. Ward bashing aside, a hobby I incidently put on my CV, I do generally like te direction he's taken with the chapter.

Having said all that though I REFUSE to acknowledge Astorath's the High Chaplin to me it willl always be Lemartes.