Brother Nathan Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 if you look at the pdf it actually does say that lemartes was the high chaplin... far better dude. spent most of his time in the tower with the fallen too. Those men are the chaplins responsibility. i really dont see why astro had to come along and kill them instead of putting them in stastis and preserving them til another time they could be used came along or even in in vain hope of a cure. seems a pessimistic approach to just kill them. what would have happened if the dude had discovered casisterius burried under the rubble? simple not mepheson... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 putting them in stastis and preserving them til another time they could be used came along or even in in vain hope of a cure. seems a pessimistic approach to just kill them So you'd reduce an honoured battle-brother to a thing... A mere meat-puppet dancing to whatever tune the deleriums of what was once the mind of a supreme example of humanity created to make sense of the tragedy of his continued existance and the whims of any commander that wanted to use and abuse him... An existance without hope, honour, faith, brotherhood or meaning. You would rather torture a warrior's body and belittle his memory than honour him and release him from his degradation and suffering. The duty of Astorath, and the burden of his position is to be at once kinslayer and the final act of brotherhood and friendship for those lost to the curse. And you're just wanting to use them like mere servitors... Maybe thats why you fail to 'get' what Astorath does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 putting them in stastis and preserving them til another time they could be used came along or even in in vain hope of a cure. seems a pessimistic approach to just kill them So you'd reduce an honoured battle-brother to a thing... A mere meat-puppet dancing to whatever tune the deleriums of what was once the mind of a supreme example of humanity created to make sense of the tragedy of his continued existance and the whims of any commander that wanted to use and abuse him... An existance without hope, honour, faith, brotherhood or meaning. You would rather torture a warrior's body and belittle his memory than honour him and release him from his degradation and suffering. The duty of Astorath, and the burden of his position is to be at once kinslayer and the final act of brotherhood and friendship for those lost to the curse. And you're just wanting to use them like mere servitors... Maybe thats why you fail to 'get' what Astorath does? This ^ Also, I think you guys might be overplaying the prevalence of the Rage a tad. This is something that every brother in every Chapter (a few exceptions being Knights of Blood and, although they've been better about it in recent years, Flesh Tearers) bends their entire force of will to resisting. Granted, the BA and all their successors are spread out to perhaps a hundred or so different battlefields across the Imperium, but honestly, IMO each battlegroup probably couldn't have more than a small handful of battle-brothers, not more than two or three, fall to the curse during a given campaign (Hence the minimum squad size in our codex now being three), otherwise there wouldn't be any BA or successors anymore, as it takes years to make new marines to replenish losses, so the rate at which they lose battle-brothers from both battle and the curse, can't be much higher than the rate at which they induct new marines. Larger squads of DC could be formed by putting the fallen brothers on ice until the next battle, adding more members as they fall and so on until either they die in battle and earn their redemption or Astorath finally shows up to handle his business, because no marine wants to have the blood of a brother on his hands unless he's completely beyond control, no matter how maddened the brother is. According to the codex entry (inb4Wardraeg) Astorath "senses" DC and follows his nose Toucan Sam-style to where the rage vibes are strongest. As for his other responsibilities as High Chaplain, I'm guessing ol' Asto probably has some second-in-command somewhere back on Baal that he's delegated those to. All in all, his pan-Chapter exploits, while somewhat far-fetched, even for 40k, I feel are plausible. Although one would wonder if he has some latent psychic ability of his own. Personally, I think as a character he's pretty interesting. Between him and Sanguinor they personify the duality at the core of the Chapter's character. The Sanguinor representing the sense of hope and strength imbued in them through their heritage to Sanguinius, while Astorath personifies the fatalism that has slowly overtaken the Chapter with the loss of their Primarch and the onset of the gene-curse. And honestly, I was never in love with Lemartes from the .pdf codex days. Maybe it had something to do with the giant flower he had on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 whilst beheading them isnt belittling the marine? removing what ability of them that there is remaining. again look at the story of calesterius... look at the hope he has provided to the chapter. also you seem to not have noticed that marines do spend most of their time in stasis as it takes so long in traveling between worlds that many are actually much older than their memory suggests(ie they could have been born 1000 years ago but only been out of stasis for 600 and therefore only consider themselves to be 600.... stasis dosent destroy a marine compleately. by your view why are death company furisos even allowed to continue in service as they can last for thousands of years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 also you seem to not have noticed that marines do spend most of their time in stasis as it takes so long in traveling between worlds that many are actually much older than their memory suggests Gonna have to call bs, here. Where exactly did you read that marines go into stasis? Everything I've read clearly states that when marines aren't fighting, they're training to fight. And when they're not doing either of those, they're praying for more fights to get into. We have a system for reaching far off worlds, it's called warp travel. This is 40k, not Lost in Space. Furthermore, is it not more belittling to the memory of the brother to spend his last days as a maddened lunatic, completely out of touch with reality, feasting on the blood of his victims? Notice I said victims, not foes, because after a point they become a danger to everyone around them, including their brothers. As I've said before, no marine wants the blood of a brother on his hands. Mephiston is the exception every rule must have. The most nearly every son of Sanguinius who falls to the rage has to look forward to is rapid degeneration into madness and brutality. It's not as if Astorath executes them out of hand, either. Typically he bests them in single combat first, allowing them to die in battle, as they would have wanted. To be held indefinitely as a raving, bloodthirsty madman, released only to kill like an attack dog let slip from a chain, like a beast, is a fate worse than death for any marine and a dark stain on their honor and memory, which is all that will really survive of them in the end. Brothers are encased as dreadnaughts because they are too valuable to the chapter as heroes to allow to die. Those that fall to the rage are simply too difficult to remove from their caskets to do anything but wait for them to fall. Or maybe Astorath handles them too? Who knows. Honestly, though. Where do you get your information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olgerth Istaarn Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Nobody really knows what Mephiston IS. Or what he will turn into after some time passes. So maybe if Astorath had found Calistarius and ended him, it would in the end turn out a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marik Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I was under the impression that when a brother finally started to manifest the Black rage that they finally joined the Death Company in which they would serve until they finally met death. Astorath only performs his duty on those completely claimed by the Black Rage, which I would consider the point that a brother can not distinguish between friend or foe. Just some thoughts on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 whilst beheading them isnt belittling the marine? removing what ability of them that there is remaining. No, giving them the peace of death, where what is best of them can join the throng of battle-brothers at the side of the Primarch, isnt belittling them. And by that time, they have no ability remaining - they are no longer marines, they are beasts, unthinking carcasses stumbling through a parody of life, only a shadow of what they once were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I was under the impression that when a brother finally started to manifest the Black rage that they finally joined the Death Company in which they would serve until they finally met death. Astorath only performs his duty on those completely claimed by the Black Rage, which I would consider the point that a brother can not distinguish between friend or foe. Just some thoughts on it. This. He only kills those that are too far gone. It specifically states that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 On the case of death company dreads I'm sure that a furioso or other dreadnought sucomes to the black rage and not a dead DC member that is entombed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aftershock Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I think it would make far more sense if the DC from other chapters were put in stasis and shipped to Astorath on Baal? Assuming he isnt delegating his executing responsibilities. Mail order executions... I think the fluff other than this is far more plausible than in the past. The past DC, when i first started playing BA in early 3rd edition, I always thought of as jibbering, mindless kill machines. I never read that anywhere, but that was the impression I always had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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