3 Stormraven Idea

[T3mpl@r Crusade]

As of the faq I've been thinking of some ideas, but one that I have been entertaining as of late is a 3 stormraven formation with 2 libbies for HQ.

 

The libbies would have the shrouding. Since the shrouding can stack if you are in the open giving you a 5+ cover save, you could essentially have a 5+ cover for the front stormraven with the others following in the congo line gaining a 4+ from the storm raven in front, which would in turn be a 3+ because of shrouding. when you already have cover, shrouding will not stack.

 

Now the congo line idea is essentially to give them the best cover save combination without having to turbo boost. I realized the other day that if you turbo boost and the transport gets imobilized, or wrecked, or destroyed, you are going to lose that unit. It only takes 1 pen, one failed save, and a fifty percent chance on the damage table to lose it all. considering I am taking terminators in the storm ravens, it would be an expensive loss.

 

Deployment:

The lead storm raven would have a PA squad or purifiers in it with a libbie. second one would have a libbie and terminators. third would have terminators. If I go first, perfect, moving up the field 12 inches, firing 2 weapons on each storm raven (which btw are all armed with TLLC and TLMM)

 

If I go second, I shall attempt to hide them if cover allows me, otherwise, same idea since shrouding is cast in the opposing players turn.

 

 

Now you amy think: Why dont you just turbo boost and use the storm ravens special DS troop deployment to get your troops out of their transports to prevent losing all the units in one unlucky round of shooting?

 

Well, i could do that. with some expertly placed servo skulls the scatter would be reduced, but I really want the libbies close together to confer a 5+ cover for the groups themselves, and for the 3+ on the storm ravens. The closeness of the squads to each other and to the storm ravens risk losing the squads, and might force me to deploy them farther from the enemy front lines for assault ramp goodness:

 

So my question to you is: is this a viable option? and if you did take this, would you:

1. turbo boost and hope for the best

2. turbo boost and deploy troops via shadow skies

3. congo line that business

 

Realistically, this would be done in an over 2k point game. 615 points in transports, 400 in HQ, 455 in termies and 235 in PA. only leaves less than 300 for other fun stuff, which means only enough for 1 or 2 more units haha.

[Kiiiddd]

Unless i am wrg wouldn't stacking shrouding give you a 2+ cover save (4+ from turbo boosting and then shrouding stacking improving that by 2)

 

ah dumb me not reading everything :( you dont want to turbo boost due to the possibly losing every thing due to a 4,5,6 result.

I would just go big and play the gamble with turbo boosting the termis across unless you are facing tau they will strip your cover save and railgun you :P

[veidin]

The only time you lose the units inside is if you wreck on your turn. Being shot down after moving flat out does not cause you to lose everything.

 

That being said it's always in your best interest to gain the flat out cover save. Unless you have a viable target in range you want to lay into with weaponry or you are close enough to utilize the assault ramp. Otherwise moving flat out still lets you shoot one of the weapons with POTMS with no hinderance. Just dont land in difficult terrain and you're all set

[Brother Xeones]

My answer: "Not really viable, no."

 

1. A line of 3 stormravens is LONG. You're not going to be able to get all three into that line of yours until at least turn 2 and that's with turbo boosting.

2. A line of three stormravens will only get the cover saves off of one another from a pretty narrow angle of view from the perspective of the enemy. If your opponent's units are spread out a little he's going to be able to see you and you won't get anything better than a 5+ (that's assuming you really CAN stack Shrouding. This seems pretty silly to me)

3. Your interpretation of losing the SR and all it's contents is only valid IF you lose it in your own turn. So unless you immobilize yourself either coming into, or going out of dangerous terrain, you're not going to lose all your expensive stuff.

 

So my advice is that you avoid dangerous terrain so you don't splat yourself, and just turbo boost all three SRs for a straight 3+ cover save across the board. Sure you lose out on a little shooting, but you've still got PotMS to fire one weapon.

[T3mpl@r Crusade]

Thanks xeones, I completely forgot about the size of them. I havent bought one yet, and I dont see them often in my local area, so I forget they are sizeable.

 

 

The only time you lose the units inside is if you wreck on your turn. Being shot down after moving flat out does not cause you to lose everything.

 

That being said it's always in your best interest to gain the flat out cover save. Unless you have a viable target in range you want to lay into with weaponry or you are close enough to utilize the assault ramp. Otherwise moving flat out still lets you shoot one of the weapons with POTMS with no hinderance. Just dont land in difficult terrain and you're all set :rolleyes:

 

I must have read it wrong then. Just to make sure, so if I move flat out in my turn, and dont wreck, but get shot down in the enemy phase, I wont lose the units inside the storm raven?

[veidin]

You got it. Models are only lost if you wreck in the same turn you moved flat out. Unless specifically stated, the term "turn" refers to player turn. Therefor you only lose models if you wreck during your movement phase due to a failed difficult terrain test with a skimmer.

 

In the following enemy shooting phase should they get past your 3+ cover and wreck the vehicle you perform disembark/emergency disembark as normal. No models lost unless you fail armor saves from wounds caused by explosion if it is rolled on the damage chart.

[Brother Xeones]

EDIT: Ninja'd by Veidin ...again.

 

Yeah, just to clarify, this is what the FAQ says:

Q: If a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same turn as it

moved flat out, what happens to any embarked models?

(p70)

A: They are removed as casualties.

 

Now to get the full meaning of this, you'll need to refer to another section of the FAQ back toward the beginning:

Q: What is meant when the term ‘turn’ is used? (p9)

A: Whenever the word turn is used it means player

turn. Otherwise it will clearly state game turn. In a

complete game turn both players get a player turn.

Hence one game turn will comprise two player turns.

 

So from these two FAQs you can see that if a transport vehicle is destroyed in the same [player] turn as it moved flat out, then the occupants are destroyed as well. This means something YOU do must kill the transport vehicle. The only way that can happen is if you fail a dangerous terrain test, and immobilize your skimmer while going flat out. So if you don't fly into a brick wall, your guys are pretty safe.

[T3mpl@r Crusade]

Thanks guys, then I rolled this around in my brain for nothing. haha oh well. Good news is i won't have to worry about having doubt on the battlefield if my opponent brings this up

[Cmdr Shepard]

It's not my intention to ruin your happiness but I doubt the effects of multiple shrouding can stack.

I read the recent faq and there no doubt hammerhand can stack because it increases S by 1.

 

Shrouding however does not increase cover save by a given value, it gives all units within range the USR "Stealth". Even though you cast twice the power you unit will still benefit of a +1 bonus to cover because that's what the Universal special rules states.

 

That's sad but I doubt you can give a universal special rule twice to an unit and stacking its effect. Hammerhand is another story.

Bonus stack but universal special rules only grant the effects mentioned in their text.

For example Vindicare already possess stealth rule thus he won't experience any benefit from shrouding.

[Darkmagi]

It can stack but only in a very small circumstance and that is: a unit in the open where the first shrouding grants a 6+ cover then the second will kick off to grant stealth, however unless your using it on vehicles or power armor its the same as the basic termie invul save

[KnowThyEnemy]

doesnt the rule for shrouding say it grants the USR stealth and gives you a 6+ cover save if your in the open? 6+ cover save in the open + stealth = 5+ cover save minimum. no need for the second shrouding

[Darkmagi]

it says they have the stealth usr if they are in cover. If not in cover they get a 6+ cover instead.... the instead is the kicker

[KnowThyEnemy]

yes, instead of no cover save. stealth improves your cover save by +1, but if your not in cover it doesn't work (FAQ somewhere maybe?). those are 2 separate sentences there, not connected in anyway. the casting grants you the stealth rule, it doesnt say "you get stealth 'if your in cover'). i could see your lining of reasoning if it did, then the next sentence would imply you get stealth for everyone within 6" who is in cover and a 6+ cover save only for everyone who is not. the stealth special rule doesnt require you to be in cover either. they are giving you a base 6+ cover for being out in the open because otherwise gaining stealth would do nothing for you.