Something Wycked Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Then your opponent is an idiot for not having an idea of what those units do, or asking to see your Codex. I believe the word you're looking for is ignorant, rather than that highly insulting word. A lack of intelligence and a lack of information are not the same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2806820 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Excedis Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Honestly I don't see what the problem is. I've read this new codex several times and I have personally figured out and implemented several counters to these guys. Sometimes your best strategy is the simplest. I mean spam the shooting like IG and things will fall. I took a stormtrooper squad from IG (a buddy's) and totally wiped and entire purifier squad (also his). I even fit in a chimera in the same points value. Honestly there is an incredible amount of balance, you just have to find it and think. With regards to beating an army my buddy is new to the game and started grey knights. He read the fluff from the BL books first and was hooked. Both of us have no arguements on the fluff. So he started and borrowed some minis from some of our buddies and played with us. Using three other experienced players helping him he did some amazing damage. But at the same time my buddy playing Chaos space marines outnumbered him almost 4 to 1 in the same points value. He even had two daemon princes. Then another game he simply obliterated everything my grey knight buddy placed ont eh field even while helping him and help from the other two of us. I personally went against a GK army with my personal take on a DOA BA list and wiped him. Took some casualties but i simply used my speed to outmaneuver him and blew him away. THey are a fairly slow moving army run one way, and when fast moving they are fairly fragile. Just find those balances and you have your way to obliterate them. Also that poor new GK player buddy of mine did beat out my other two more experienced players. I didn't give him much help (used the bathroom :D ) and they didn't help him at all. And in his first night of playing he terminated the other team, but took a 65% casualty rate and almost lost it himself. He just had the love of the dice gods on his side that time. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2806875 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Then your opponent is an idiot for not having an idea of what those units do, or asking to see your Codex. People have hard times building lists because they try the exact things you suggest and get punished for it. It is really no more simpler than that. Your tactics with lesser known units will certainly work, but the tactics employed by lists that are stronger overall will work more. That's all there is to it really. Theres a difference between seeing a units stats and knowing what its capable of. More so, most people have an idea of what a unit is before they face it- again, this doesnt give them any real knowledge of it, just the basic idea of shooty, choppy, antitank, etc. People will get overinflated ideas of what a unit can do in some cases- see howling banshees- or under estimate them greatly- see swiftclaws- either of wich can be an advantage. Edit: This can most clearly be seen when a new codex first comes out, and many games are won simply because people dont know what to do about it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2806918 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 firstly apologies to number6, i wasnt trying to imply you were being rude.. merely making a point that i feel most of us in this thread do have in common i also agree that competative play is rewarded by being unique.. i have had much success with an all infiltrating scout army.. merely becuase it falls outside the norm of what people face.. people could do really well if they tried things for themselves.. sometimes the idea of 'meta' gets sidetracked by interwebz opinions.. true meta and interwebz meta are miles apart IMO Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2806989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
number6 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 firstly apologies to number6 No worries! No offense was taken. No harm, no foul. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2807190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adir Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 firstly apologies to number6 No worries! No offense was taken. No harm, no foul. :P I agree and very much appreciate how civil this thread has been. We all have opinions on the game, the GK codex, and the direction the community/GW has been going. Thanks all for a rational (albeit completely off topic) discussion! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2807435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Then your opponent is an idiot for not having an idea of what those units do, or asking to see your Codex. I believe the word you're looking for is ignorant, rather than that highly insulting word. A lack of intelligence and a lack of information are not the same thing. No, I found the word I was looking for. Someone who lacks the intelligence to obtain information from their opponent's Codex is an idiot. @Grey Mage: No. The units stats tell you exactly what a unit is capable of. It tells you what their wargear is, how well they can shoot/hit/assault, how hard/easy it is to do the same. That is all you need to know. More importantly, what are the immediate threats of that unit, and what can you expoit in the current situation? The armies are on the table, you're not examining that unit in a vacuum. From the Codex you have most of information you need to know about that unit. If you see a unit on the table for the first time, or if the unit is unknown to you for whatever reason, you damn well look that unit up in the Codex. It will not guarantee victory, but it will leave you better informed before the game begins. And with that, let the thread return to civil discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2807731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 And with that, let the thread return to civil discussion. Oh, thanks for that. :) Stats tell you how well a unit will do 1v1 in a vacuum...meaning no other units involved, no meaningful terrain, and no other effects (psychic debuffs, etc). Stats also don't take into account the familiarity of the controlling player with that unit, his/her army, or their opponent. Stats also don't take into account human elements like experience, fatigue, and stress - both related to and external to the game. If I see a unit on the table I've never seen before, I ask the controlling player what it is and what it can do. If the controlling player lies to me, well, the game no longer matters and hell, I'll still kill it. Like those T5 FNP Nurgle Terminators I once threw down with. (100 shots didn't kill them...but the Vanguard did.) But in my experience they always tell me the truth to the best of their knowledge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2807738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Knowing a units stats gives a fairly good idea though. That's why when a new codex comes out people are like 'Cor, have you seen that? And if you combine this and this then you can do that!' This is entirely down to experience but it does allow you to look at the stats and have a fairly good idea of what they are capable of. It is because of this that I don't play test lists and then refine them. I read the codex for a few weeks, write my list and that's it, THAT is my list and I don't change it, I don't need to because most the time it performs as expected. Sometimes it's not always right, my Vindicare is crap for example and has rolled double ones than hits but that's just bad luck. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2807807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Oh thats right... You do play Space Wolves, don't you BW? As usual, +1 to Thade for hitting the mark. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232420-no-challenge-it-is-too-easy/page/4/#findComment-2808346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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