Chaplain's or Librarians?

[thade]

Thade we have had this arguement before and you were jut as wrong then when u recommended thy be run in rhnos as you are now but shall we have this out in another thread, I will make one tomorrow no holds barred arguing only 3 rules:

1 we don't talk about the thread

2 we are not so good at math

Is the lack of a third rule here implicit evidence of this math deficiency we both share? I assumed it was omitted on purpose and I lol'd. :)

 

I'll keep an eye out for your thread.

[greatcrusade08]

in a direct comparison between a charlie and a libby, the best option is the one that most suits the rest of your army :)

 

seriously though a charlie is the cheapest and most reliable HQ option in the dex, id your running one one foot, take cassius instead, every time, hes evil.

a libby can fail his Ld checks for psychic attacks and then can have those attacks nullified by the enemy.. in assault id favour the chaplain and his inv save over a bog standard chappy.

 

plus the re-rolls are evil.. alot of people try to go crazy with those, taking 400 points of vanguard is IMO a little nuts.. but a squad of claw termies (they get dual re-rolls then) or even assault marines which are pretty good with re-rolls..

 

the chappy with JP and ten man assault squad with fist and dual flamer, is an iconic SM unit, my heart leaps when i see it.. leave the hammernators at home and go old school

[thade]

the chappy with JP and ten man assault squad with fist and dual flamer, is an iconic SM unit, my heart leaps when i see it.. leave the hammernators at home and go old school

Emperor be praised, Brother.

 

So often when comparing units in terms of assault, people seem to neglect pre-assault shooting; flamers and pistols in the charging unit as well as support units (your LRR/C at least as a shot with it's assault cannon, not to mention any tactical squads you were flanking this charge with). A chaplain goes a long way toward supporting your assault unit, increasing their hits vs MEQ by 50%. If that's what you're after for your force.

 

My honest recommendation is to proxy both models (or just pick up and paint them both) and see which one suits you better.

[Shadowstalker Grim]

I think each of the HQs has their merits undoubtedly.

 

The librarian is arguably cheaper than the librarian as he can operate without ANY upgrades as he gets to pick and mix his bag of tricks. He's also unique in the sense he can offer a measure of psychic defence. Though further upgrades tend to be expensive..like epistolary. However lets face it, the chaplain comes with some pretty decent built in gear AND hes only going to cost 15-25 points to upgrade to fit in with any unit at most. Thats not a large investment really!

 

I can see both having many merits to serving alongside a captain/chapter master. After all both can do slightly different things!

[Marine Errant]

the chappy with JP and ten man assault squad with fist and dual flamer, is an iconic SM unit,

 

This is how I run it. I never, ever, leave home without this combo and it has almost never let me down. Librarians are somewhat too situational for my liking and do not really contribute anyhting to my style of play. A chaplains rerolls however are an emperor-send!!!!

[Tigrinus]

Lots of good points, all. My recommendation is to aquire models for each of the generic ICs and run them until you develop a preference for one.

 

Personally, I only ever use 1 IC at a time. This particular stratagem has come about by just playing as many games as I possibly can whenever I can. You can reason and rationalize what is best, but until you actually play them in games you won't know if you like the options they give you or not. But as for helping you answer your own question.

 

They say that whenever human beings are presented with a choice it usually only takes a couple of seconds for them to make up their mind. If it's a decision that they feel uncomfortable with, then they'll next try to rationalize it, usually by seeking the advice of others.

 

Sorry to bust out psychology 101 on you ( :P ), but what was your original decision? IMO, that's the best one to go with!

[chaplain belisarius]

back in 3rd edition my army always was led by a chaplain with jump pack and plasma pistol (leading an assault squad) and he never disappointed. Since the new dex he doesnt hit as hard as he used to but i like chaplains...:P

[Schultzhoffen]

The best way to use a Chaplain is with a unit that will kill a lot of MEQs. This means a unit with power weapons of some kind - assault terminators (usually) or Vanguard with at least 3 PWpns.

 

An Assault Marine squad, even with rerolls to hit is just not going to kill that many MEQs. It is an ok choice v IG, Eldar, possibly Orks, etc, but MEQs - not so much.

 

On the other hand a Librarian can do more. Gives you a Hood, Power Weapon, Psychic Powers and you have access to a 3+ SS.

 

The Librarian is best with a shooty squad (Sternguard, perhaps) while the Chaplain is CC orientated. Therefore it depends on your aims.

 

The main problem (for me) is that a Chaplain has I4 and 2A as base -hardly a CC monster and could be killed before even attacking by a higher Initiative enemy (4+ Invul. is nice but not invincible). If I want a CC model I'd use a tooled up captain.

 

If you're using a captain a Librarian compliments him nicely. If you have a Chaplain a Librarian compliments him nicely. If you have a Librarian as your main HQ (I do for my UMs), then its up to the points you have at your disposal (I don't bother with another HQ -I prefer bodies on the board to tooled up HQs).