Radical inquisitors?

[Arioch]

So I was intent on adding an inquísitor to my spacemarines, the point being to have a campaign with my friend and his puritan inquisitor, opposed to my radical. My question is, how would an inquisitor be percieved that has been decleared a heretic by another inquisitor? I mean, would he still hold the power of his office? How would other imperial forces react to this? Would he be outlawed througout the imperium, or only hunted, when the enemy inquisitor was there to enforce his damnation? The codex didnt seem to hold any answers to this question, despite it talks about Inquisitor fighting eachother. I thought perhabs anyone here would know the answer?

[The emperors chosen]

To be declared a heretic officially, it would have to be by a tribunal of Inquisitors. If found guilty he would probably be killed. If he is a radical, then he would probably lose the support of any marines he was working with, but as he is still an Inquisitor, he could still have an army of guardsmen. How radical are you making the inquisitor? If he/she summoning deamons, or working with xenos tech. "Radical" has a very broad definition, as does "puritan".

Hope this helps!

[maturin]

Since the Inquisition seems to be rife with political power plays, I think the answer to your question depends on who is declaring him a radical. Is the other inquisitor high ranking in the sector? If so, your inquisitor is going to be hunted and discredited....but if the other guy is of equal rank/influence or lower, then it probably won't have much effect on your inquisitor (other than having to deal with said foe).

[Chengar Qordath]

It's important to realize that the Radicals encompasses an impressive variety of different factions whose only real unifying theme is that they are not entirely in sync with the mainstream lines of thought within the Inquisition. Broadly speaking, you could divide the Radicals into two super-factions:

 

"Fight Fire With Fire" Group: Xanthites, Oblationists, Xeno Hybris, Phaenonites

The main thing all these groups have in common is a willingness to use the forbidden in defense of the Imperium. The exact methods can vary toying with forbidden sorcery, cutting deals with creatures of the Wap, using unsanctioned heretek, or working alongside the xenos and using their methods, the ultimate underlying philosophy is the same; the ends justify the means. Radicals from this group ignore thevery principles of the Imperium was founded upon in order to protect the Imperium. The problem lies in the risk of corruption; the alien and the profane taint all that they touch, and the Inquisitor who dabbles in forbidden in order to protect the Imperium has taken the first step along the road to damnation.

 

It does bear mentioning that membership in one faction does not imply membership in another, or any particular ordo within the Inquisition. One could easily have a Radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitor who uses Xenotech, but would never even consider dabbling in the powers of the Warp.

 

"Remake the Imperium in Our Image" Group: Istvannians, Recongregationists, Seculous Attendous, Polpsykana

What all these factions have in common is a desire to use the Inquisition to change the fundamental structure of the Imperium itself. Whether the change they wish to bring is a positive or negative thing would depend almost entirely upon one's perspective; certainly some will find the idea of a fully psychic human race or a reformed Imperium which has shaken off ten thousand years of stagnation and corruption appealing. However, the Imperium fears change, and many feel that the Radicals from these factions would not only shatter the fragile fabric of Imperial society. That's not to mention that some of these directly threaten the powerful established interests within the Imperium...

 

Then you get the occasional oddball faction that don't fit either category, like the Libricar (who are essentially so Puritan that they're Radical).

 

Because the Radicals are split into so many factions, its difficult to make any sort of blanket statement about how any other faction within the Imperium will interact with Radicals as a whole. For example, the Adeptus Mechanicus would get along with Radical intent on unlocking the secrets of Necron technology, would hate a Radical who used Heretek, and probably would not care one way or the other about a Radical who was intent on undermining the Ecclesiarchy.

[Cmdr Shepard]

Remember "radical" does not mean "renegade" or "heretic". A radical Inquistor believes enemy weapons and knowledge must used against them for the sake of humanity. That's the key point: for the sake of humanity. A radical Inquisitor is still loyal to the Emperor. Conflicts between Inquisitors are far from rare but usually they remain confined to the original parties.

Consider that many persons could consider Grey Knights radical too. Killing members of the Adepta Sororitas in order to acquire a form of protection against demonic powers can be consider a direct attack against ecclesiarchy but no one dare to define GK heretics or renegades.

 

Inquisition's authority supersed any other imperial organization and no organization has direct authority over Inquisition, not even Adeptus Terra. If an Inquisitor betrays the Imperium I'm sure its own organization, maybe even GK, will hunt him down, but he must betray his oath. Mere contrasts with other Inquisitors will not affect their role inside the Inquisition. Look at Inquisitor Valeria's story.

It's possible for the respective warbands to egange in combat but nothing more.

[Azurious]

It would really depend on how radical you are wanting to go :) all of the above posts cover pretty much all you can say briefly about the radical elements, if you want a really good exploration into the radical elements and how an inquisitor can end up there (plus an excellent read) I would highly recommend Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn Trilogy from the black library, I know 3 books is possibly more than you may care for but if you enjoy the fluff side of the inquisistion in 40k i can not hold any other material in higher regard :)

[Demoulius]

now im confused :)

 

so i get what radicals are....but what does it mean to be puritan? what ideals do they follow?

[Chengar Qordath]

now im confused :)

 

so i get what radicals are....but what does it mean to be puritan? what ideals do they follow?

Puritans more or less follow mainstream Imperial ideals:

 

Destroy all forms of Chaos whenever you encounter them. There is no such thing as a safe way to use Chaos for the good Imperium, because Chaos inevitably corrupts all that it touches.

 

The alien will always be the enemy of mankind. To treat with the alien is to invite corruption. Even if practical necessity requires toleration of the continues existence of races like the Tau and Eldar, the Imperium has nothing to learn from these xenos, and their day will come once greater threats like Chaos and the Tyranids have been dealt with.

 

Heresy of any type can never be tolerated. The Imperium was created by the God-Emperor himself; to question the established order of the Imperium is to question the Emperor. To open the door to doubt and deny the wisdom of the Emperor is heresy. Heresy begets retribution.

[Lord_Caerolion]

now im confused :P

 

so i get what radicals are....but what does it mean to be puritan? what ideals do they follow?

 

Radical and Puritan have no objective definition whatsoever in regards to the Inquisition, other than "popular and accepted ideology" and "unpopular and shunned ideology". For example, Thorianism (the belief in the reincarnation of the Emperor in a Divine Host, or even his resurrection), which is currently one of the most popular Puritan ideologies within the Inquisition, was originally one of the most hated Radical ideologies. However, the ideology itself never changed, only the reaction of others to it, once the faction gained a figurehead in Sebastian Thor. Similarly, Xanthism, while a Radical ideology, has the support and open membership of many of the highest-regarded and influential Inquisitors out there, so it's possible to be a Radical yet not Heretical.

 

On the other hand, you have factions like the Libricar, which are Amalathians (a Puritan faction) taking their doctrine to extremes, to the point that they've been branded a seperate ideology and deemed Radical, despite sharing exactly the same views and ideas, the only difference being the Libricar take it much further than the Amalathians do.

 

You've then got the Monodominants, who by all accounts are actually one of the most harmful sects in the Inquisition, given their love of unrestrained purges and religious hysteria. They should be deemed a Radical faction, as they often do as much harm as good (they very much believe the "better a thousand innocents burn than a single heretic go free" line. Of course, their definition of heretic includes jay-walkers and people not thanking the Emperor for everything they do...), but they have the backing and wholehearted support of the Ministorum, and an incredibly large, influential following, so the sect is deemed Puritan.

 

The simplest way to understand it is to stop thinking of the factions as clear-cut black-and-white good/evil. Puritan factions can be incredibly dangerous, while Radicals can be incredibly beneficial. A Recongregator, a Radical faction supporting the reformation of the Imperium (although very, very few actually want wholescale anarchy, rather a gradual improvement from the stagnation that currently engulfs the Imperium) might support removing corrupt officials from power, and putting into their position people who can actually handle the job. However, due to the lack of support and influence, it's a Radical faction.

So yes, as above, just think of them as Puritan=popular, Radical="the awkward topic noone really likes discussing". Radical Inquisitors can sometimes slip into heresy, but the ideologies aren't heretical in themselves. Even Xanthism isn't heretical, as at its core it promotes the understanding of the Warp so as to use it against itself. Xanthites are actually some of the most ardent supporters in the hunt for heretical Inquisitors. If they were actually heretical, they'd be hunted on sight, like the Phaenonites (a philosophy promoting the combination of heretech and warp-knowledge. They're an offshoot, extremist branch of Xanthism).

 

As with many things in the Inquisition, it all comes down to who you know, and who your enemies are. Make enough friends, you're Puritan. Make enough enemies, you're Radical. Sometimes, you can have enemies for good reasons (Libricar, Phaenonites), but other times, it's simply the result of bias (Recongregator, Polypsykana, Istvaanian... well, mostly, there are the occasional bad ones), rather than any fault on your end. Similarly, at times you can have all the friends in the world, people lining up to kiss your feet, yet you're an utter ass, because of who you know (Monodominism).

[Arioch]

Thank you for all the good answers :(

 

I had imagined my Inqusitor as not particularly old, barely finished being an acolyte. He belonged to a radical cabal within the Inquisition that was nearly completly destroyed by a puritan faction. The radical cabal he belonged to experimented with many things considered "heretical" by the Imperium, like the creation of deamonhosts and ancient cloningscience (I´m not sure if cloning is considered forbidden though..). As the main facility of the cabal was wiped out along with its inqusitors, my inquisitor, Solomon, would have many enemies and very few allies. I believe he would travel around in the galaxy, looking for hidden knowledge and other stuff, but I have not yet determined his motives, exept staying hidden for from the puritans. I think I got most of my inspiration from the old Deamonhunters codex, which had a story about a radical inquisitor that used chaos as a tool and was hunted down by puritans.

 

So how radical is Solomon? Well, he is pretty new to the radical ways, but as I intent on adding at least one demonhost, he has at least created one of these. He doesnt have a demonsword though (yet).

He is a psycher and does not approve of the Imperial way of viewing psychers as deviant mutants, rather, he sees it as a gift from the Emperor. Because of this, many of his acolytes or agents would be psychers, on the run from the imperial government.

 

So my inquisitor believe that many things in the Imperium should be done different, and he is prepared to use any mean neccessary to change these things. And impossible task for certain ;)

So I guess he is "remake the imperium in our image" minded. I should definetly read that Eisenhorn Trilogi for some more inspiration though, thanks for that tip!

 

But would such an Inquisitor be able to command, lets say, regiments of the imperial guard, if they knew he was radical and wanted to change the ways of the imperium? (ofcourse he would try to keep his motives hidden).

[Lord Ragnarok]

If he is a radical, then he would probably lose the support of any marines he was working with,

 

I disagree with this.

 

GK's=The GK dex states that GK's don't get into the middle of Radical vs Puritan squabbles. It's seen as a "family" matter and they stay out of it as much as possible.

Codex Marines=Relictors most definitely would work with a Radical, like minded Inquisitor. I'd expect much variation amongst the many chapters and which, if any, =][= factions they would work with.

Sw's=Openly supported a radical =][= who used chaos to subvert chaos, as described in the codex. They fight a war with the puritans bent on executing him until he can escape.

[Lord_Caerolion]

So how radical is Solomon? Well, he is pretty new to the radical ways, but as I intent on adding at least one demonhost, he has at least created one of these. He doesnt have a demonsword though (yet).

He is a psycher and does not approve of the Imperial way of viewing psychers as deviant mutants, rather, he sees it as a gift from the Emperor. Because of this, many of his acolytes or agents would be psychers, on the run from the imperial government.

 

So my inquisitor believe that many things in the Imperium should be done different, and he is prepared to use any mean neccessary to change these things. And impossible task for certain :P

So I guess he is "remake the imperium in our image" minded.

 

So, he's kind of a halfway point between Xanthite and Recongregator, with a small dose of Polypsykana thrown in for good measure, it seems. I like that you don't have him as a stereotype as one of the factions, it makes him more believable. For instance, my own Inquisitor is halfway between Istvaanian and Recongregator. He believes the Imperium needs to be reformed, but in particular he believes that the Imperium should be focussing on taking the fight to its enemies, so works on removing corrupt/weak leaders in the IG/IN, and pushing for crusades. He also might be doing a little experimentation into combining advanced machine spirits with the bionics of soldiers, to make them more efficient.

 

I should definetly read that Eisenhorn Trilogy for some more inspiration though, thanks for that tip!

A warning about the Eisenhorn Trilogy, he takes a rather simplified view on the Radical/Puritan divide, often stating it as simply "Radicals use Chaos". I really want to see a book that takes a much stronger "shades of grey" approach to the factions. His "Thorian" character doesn't actually believe in Reincarnationism, the root belief of the Thorians, instead being called a Thorian because he's a stereotypical Monodominant in every way other than the fact that he's a psyker. That isn't Thorianism, it's a personal sort of Monodominism. To be a Thorian you have to believe that the Emperor will return, either through reincarnation into a Divine Avatar, or some lesser, much less trusted groups believe in Resurrectionism. This character isn't mentioned to believe in either.

 

Don't get me wrong, they're good books, but he does take a few liberties, and make a few mistakes (Primarch Rubinek, anyone?)

 

But would such an Inquisitor be able to command, lets say, regiments of the imperial guard, if they knew he was radical and wanted to change the ways of the imperium? (ofcourse he would try to keep his motives hidden).

 

Does he still have the authority of an Inquisitor? Then yes. Until he's declared Excommunicate Traitoris, he has the authority of an Inquisitor, and can do pretty much whatever he wants (even when declared heretic he can still do that, technically, so long as people don't know who he actually is.

That said, it's entirely believable that your Inquisitor could have his own IG, whether they be actual IG recruited to his service (indirectly, if he really wants to keep a low profile), or they could be a private army owing loyalty only to your Inquisitor (and the Golden Throne, of course...), much like my Inquisitor has.

[Chengar Qordath]

Also, it bears mentioning that the vast majority of people outside of the Inquisition know absolutely nothing about the ideological division between Puritans and Radicals, since the Inquisition tries very hard to keep its factional squabbles under wraps. To 99.9% of the Imperium, an Inquisitor is an Inquisitor, and disobeying them is a very good way to get executed for heresy. Many Puritans would severely punish a Guardsman who refused to obey a Radical Inquisitor, because they wouldn't want to establish a precedent for it being acceptable to ignore an Inquisitor's orders. Even if their beliefs are unconventional and out-of-sync with the mainstream, an Inquisitor's word is still law in the Imperium.

[Myxx]

I know a lot of people don't particularly care for some of the Black Library books, but the Eisenhorn Omnibus IMHO probably has the most information regarding the daily workings of an Inquisitor. If I remember accurately, Eisenhorn

has several run-ins with an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor who believes that he has fallen to radicalism and chaos, and is confronted on several occasions by said Witch Hunter who has every intention of killing Eisenhorn. It isn't until later in the series when the Inquisitorial tribunal officially declares him a heretic that he is actively hunted.

[Arioch]

Hehe, looks like I got a lot of religious studying to do :P

Well, thanks for the help, everything seems much more clearer now. I think I can build on from here :)

[Inquisitor Fox]

If you can find it, the Black Library "The Inquisition" book is a great encyclopedia of nifty tidbits. Likewise I heartily recommend the Inquisitor game rulebook, and the Thorian Sourcebook from the GW site. Both have lots of additional information on the Inquisition not located in a main 40K Codex. I would imagine the Dark Heresy RPG likewise has info, but I haven't read that yet.

 

Thorianism isn't so much a belief the Emperor will return, as believing the Emperor is ascended to divinityhood, and that it would be possible to bring him back via a Divine Avatar, just as it is possible to bring forth an Eldar Avatar or an Avatar of the Chaos forces and daemons, since they are beings of the Warp like the Emperor as a divine being is. So the Thorians actively look for and research Divine Avatars. This of course also goes further into some secret societies within a secret society such as the Illuminati (my personal favorite section of 40K fluff ever) and the Sensei.

 

EDIT: I should clarify that Thorians also believe the Emperor currently works some of his will and power through individuals like say, Sebastian Thor. There is more detail on this in the Thorian Sourcebook, as well as additional detail on Divine Avatars and what exactly the Thorians believe them to be. It's a free DL, get it! You won't be sorry fluffwise...

 

So in short um... he'll be fine. It all depends on which individuals feel what and what influence those individuals have or chose to exercise :P

[Inquisitor Kravin]

This discussion has persuaded me that I ought to dust off a draft articlae I was working on for the Librarium describing Inquisition politics and analysing how the different philosophies would complement/clash with the ideologies of high profile marine chapters.

 

I think that the Inquisition is so diverse that you can get away with just about anything and it's probably best to mix and match as you see fit. If you think of the factions as being like political parties then you'll see that whilst each group has a core of hardliners most people float between multiple ones, agreeing on some issues and disagreeing on others.

 

It's just my opinion but my impression from various fluff sources is that Radicals tend to be older Inquisitors. Young Inquisitors are often fanatically puritanical and hidebound idealists because that's the way they've been raised/trained. Once they get out in the real galaxy they start to find that sometimes you have to choose between dieing for your beliefs or compromising and accepting that sometimes the end justifies the means.

[Chengar Qordath]

It's just my opinion but my impression from various fluff sources is that Radicals tend to be older Inquisitors. Young Inquisitors are often fanatically puritanical and hidebound idealists because that's the way they've been raised/trained. Once they get out in the real galaxy they start to find that sometimes you have to choose between dieing for your beliefs or compromising and accepting that sometimes the end justifies the means.

Seems to vary; I can think of a couple examples of young Radicals who are ready suffer from the classic hubris of youth and think they can go out and change the universe, and old Pruitans who are arch-conservatives that are very set in their ways. By the same token, it's easy to imagine a young Inquisitor being a Radical, but finding out the hard way just how dangerous Radicalism is and/or losing his youthful idealism over time, and eventually turning into quite the Puritan. I can just imagined an old burned-out Radical lecturing the new generation about how they shouldn't repeat his mistakes...

[Lord_Caerolion]

Exactly, I can imagine a great many Recongregators being younger Inquisitors, convinced they can make the Imperium a far greater place.