Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 mind me asking where about in the world you are? :) I agree completely that variety is important :) I'm in the glorious capital of Scotland, my favourite city of them all - it's Edinburgh! :) You? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798382 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 awesome, I was actually born in Edinburgh (my family are all there). Sadly I live in the far less glorious city of Birmingham now. That being said, next time I'm up visiting family, we should catch a game :) on the topic of your lists, mind sharing your intended lists (from 500 to 1500?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798387 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 awesome, I was actually born in Edinburgh (my family are all there). Sadly I live in the far less glorious city of Birmingham now. That being said, next time I'm up visiting family, we should catch a game :) on the topic of your lists, mind sharing your intended lists (from 500 to 1500?) I'll need to put some thought into my lists: I have my 500- and 750-point lists sorted and I'm close to a final 2,000-point list, but I'm not 100% clear in the steps in between! Give me an evening to play with numbers and I'll open a thread in the army list section showing the building process I plan to go through from 500-points up to 2,000. I'd be delighted to play a game if you're up here. If you bring your BA with you and give me some warning, I could arrange a game against a couple of dark-siders in my LGWS. Would be much fun to play with a fellow B&C member against some filthy heathen scum! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798397 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I'd be delighted to play a game if you're up here. If you bring your BA with you and give me some warning, I could arrange a game against a couple of dark-siders in my LGWS. Would be much fun to play with a fellow B&C member against some filthy heathen scum! That is an awesome Idea! It probably wont be for a couple of months anyway, but I'll add you on here as a friend. While I'm not a tournament player, I've played Blood Angels in their different versions since the late 90s, this codex did change things up quite a bit though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Nice one. Looking forward to it already! Do you tend to play mech or infantry? If we're going to play a combined list, we want to make sure we have all the bases covered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798458 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I'll generally play a mixed list, with some mech and some jump infantry. I'll PM you my currently built list of units :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798483 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItCameFrom1994 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 It warms the heart to see war bringing people together. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Coolio. I'm currently trying *desperately* to fit some ranged weapons into my 500-point list and struggling mightily. My latest attempt involves a squad of Honour Guard. Things are getting silly! Annoyingly, the reason I want ranged is purely because I know I'm playing against a 57-model Ork horde on Wednesday and I can't think of a way to reliably go up against him with jump infantry... but I also don't want to start tailoring my list against a specific opponent, because that's a bit rubbish. Bother. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 500 point list? I assume no restrictions on units? Honour Guard are a bad choice purely because of their cost. You could get 10 sternguard for 250 points with no upgrades. with 30" range AP4 bolters that'll cause him issue. Take a priest (for another 50), leaving 200 left which could be 2 5 man assault squads (give both a flamer). Totals to less than 500 points, put the sternguard infront of the assault squad, with the priest joined to them, shoot the orks all the way to you, use the assault squad to counter charge (and make use of the priests furious charge/feel no pain Im assuming you're playing using the border patrol rules that got released, if not, you'd need a hq, so would have to settle for 6 sternguard and a librarian. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798535 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 I believe we have the standard unit restrictions: at least one HQ and a minimum of two Troop choices. The problem I have with Sternguard is that I wouldn't use them in a larger list - the very next thing I'll be adding at 750 points is four plasma guns, which keep me nicely out of charge range of most things. Problem is, of course, that nothing is particularly effective at shooting up a 30-strong unit of boys. Nothing that we have, anyway. I actually believe that close combat is the way to take this bugger down. Especially with Assault Squads and Sanguinary Priests. Let's assume the unit of 30 Boyz gets the charge off - even with Furious Charge they don't hit first. But, assuming that all 30 of them *did* hit me, I'm looking at 120 attacks; WS4 v. WS4 means 60 hits; S4 v. T4 means 30 wounds; 3+ armour save means 10 "kills"; Feel No Pain means 5 actual deaths. If he could contrive a way to hit me first, which he can't. If it was a question of tailoring my list against him, I'd probably pick up something like thirteen Death Company, a five-man Assault Squad with meltagun and a Reclusiarch and just run them at him. I would expect to wipe out one unit each round of combat. As I say, though, I don't want to tailor my list. I want to imagine I was entering a 500-point tournament and I need to be able to take on whatever comes my way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798561 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The thing about sternguard is, there really isn't a much more versatile unit in our list, their melee ability is identicle to our assault squads (non veteran), and their shooting can deal with just about anything, they have the range of firewarriors but better AP (this deals with tau, heavy armoured nobs, nearly everything in eldar/dark eldar lists. any guardsmen etc. they can deal with MCs due to wounding on 2s vs them. And space marines due to AP3 rounds (and our priests mitigate the gets hot rule). Imagine the following in the case of Orks: Orks are on the opposite side of the table, they take maybe 2 rounds to run across the table assuming foot slogging (if in trucks then theres less orks). Sternguard fire AP 4 range 30 rounds the first turn, hit with probably 7 and wound with probably 4. next round they fire using the wounding on 2s rounds and hit again with 7, this time likely wounding with all 7. Units likely down to 20 from 30. Next round Orks either charge or face rapid firing sternguard wounding them on 2s. If the orks use cover, the sternguard use cover ignoring rounds instead. When the remaining orks charge (lucky if theres half the unit left) the marines get 2 attacks each and likely kill 4 or 5 more. If the marines opted to charge, then they get 30 attacks, a priest giving them strenght 5 would likely be enough to finish the unit off. I guess what I'm suggesting is, switch out your intended 5 honour guard with plasma guns for 5 sternguard and a priest, or if you already have a priest, 7 sternguard. They're more versatile and infinitely better vs horde armies than a plasma squad of honour guard can ever hope to be. My regular ork, tau and chaos opponents all hate me using sternguard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 That's sound advice and it bothers me. I had imagined my army as a whirling jump-pack dervish of chainsword death. I was kind of hoping to run a fully jump infantry army. Sternguard thoroughly don't fit into that. I'm now beginning to look much more closely at hybrid options. Bother, bother, bother! I guess part of the problem is that at such a limited points total, you can't really get a feel for how units work together, since there are so few actual units. What I'm thinking about now is dropping the Sanguinary Priest (I'm not convinced he's worth the points at this level, but I can't quite work it out!) and focusing on Assault Squads: [125] Librarian -- Jump pack [235] Assault Squad -- Five additional Space Marines -- Two meltaguns -- Power fist [135] Assault Squad -- Meltagun -- Power fist = 495 points Combat-squad the large Assault Squad and you three meltaguns taking on any armour that's kicking about. Charging into combat, they... oh, the Priest adds Initiative and Strength to the charge, huh? Back to the drawing board...! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 [125] Librarian -- Jump pack [75] Sanguinary Priest -- Jump pack [200] Assault Squad -- Five additional Space Marines -- Meltagun [100] Assault Squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 at such low points, I'd drop a power fist, I'd also suggest swapping the melta gun from the small squad for a flamer. Flamers can be suprisingly useful even against non horde armies, they put down a lot of wounds if positioned right. I agree, you need to keep the priest, it's just too unreliable to hope for the roll of a '1' for Red Thirst before the game what about: [125] librarian - jump pack -sanguine sword or blood lance -unleash rage [75] priest - jump pack [146] 7 assault marines -melta gun [157] 7 assault marines -flamer -power weapon (503 total) I'd prefer a mixed list, using shooty to support choppy and choppy to support shooty generally works better for me Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 what about: ... (503 total) Looks like we're on pretty much the same page here. I've swapped out some of the weapons for extra Space Marines and hit 500 bang-on. Against tanks, my guys all have krak grenades, which is enough to be getting started with on AV10 vehicles. The Blood Lance and the meltagun give me a shot at a bigger target. And the Assault Squads let me take on hordes. DoA lets me drop down behind gunlines without taking incoming fire right across the board, though I have the option of making my way via terrain if it's available. I'm maneuverable enough to avoid big nasties that can do me serious harm while going after soft juicy targets that are easy enough to break through. My original list had a jump pack Librarian, a jump pack Priest with a power sword and two five-man Assault Squads, both with meltaguns and power fists. More strength against tanks, but less against hordes. Tricky to balance! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798607 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 my only advice then, would be go for two equal sized squads, the 5 man squad can be easily shot to pieces, though mathematically two units of 5 should be just as hard to kills as a single unit of 10... it never works out like that, so two units of 7 or 8 instead of one of 5 and one of 10 is a happy middle ground Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fury Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 If you are still looking for weapons (sorry I didn't finish reading the whole post) check ebay for templar and dark angel bits. They are way cheaper than the same tac squad bits and are plastic, since you said you don't want metal. This seller is in the US, but listings like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/WARHAMMER-40K-BITS-DAR...4#ht_1171wt_905 http://cgi.ebay.com/WARHAMMER-40K-BITS-BLA...0#ht_1992wt_928 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 my only advice then, would be go for two equal sized squads, the 5 man squad can be easily shot to pieces, though mathematically two units of 5 should be just as hard to kills as a single unit of 10... it never works out like that, so two units of 7 or 8 instead of one of 5 and one of 10 is a happy middle ground Deal! I'm not too happy with the lack of melta, though. And I already modelled my Sanguinary Priest with a power weapon. So, final list (hopefully!): [125] Librarian -- Jump pack [90] Sanguinary Priest -- Jump pack -- Power sword [146] Assault Squad -- Two additional Space Marines -- Meltagun -- Melta bombs [128] Assault Squad -- One additional Space Marine -- Meltagun -- Melta bombs = 499 points Give me the charge and I have 55 attacks; WS4/5 v. WS4, given Unleash Rerolls, means 39.25 hits; S5 v. T4 means 26.17 wounds; 6+SV means an average of 21.8 wounds. That ignores shooting before I charge (a further 4.25 wounds). Mathhammer says these boys will do nasty things to an Ork unit! (And, I know that mathhammer doesn't give you actual figures - but it's good to know what an average roll will do for you.) Suddenly thoroughly looking forward to Wednesday! If you are still looking for weapons (sorry I didn't finish reading the whole post) check ebay for templar and dark angel bits. They are way cheaper than the same tac squad bits and are plastic, since you said you don't want metal. This seller is in the US, but listings like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/WARHAMMER-40K-BITS-DAR...4#ht_1171wt_905 http://cgi.ebay.com/WARHAMMER-40K-BITS-BLA...0#ht_1992wt_928 Great shout! Thanks very much - I'll definitely look into them! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798628 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Good luck for Wednesday! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798642 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 [125] Librarian-- Jump pack [90] Sanguinary Priest -- Jump pack -- Power sword have to say this is a basis that ive run a long alongside an assault squad and they reap a mighty harvest against my opponent B) i even wiped a full strength 30 boyz mob in 1 turn of combat once ^_^ re-rolling WS5 S5 power weapon hits help ALOT (even if orks are 6+ armour save...youd be suprised how many they can save from time to time) this squad is BRUTAL on the charge :) so i really doubt you need fire support in 500 pts, just make sure you get the charge ;) good luck tomorrow ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2798973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 [125] Librarian-- Jump pack [90] Sanguinary Priest -- Jump pack -- Power sword have to say this is a basis that ive run a long alongside an assault squad and they reap a mighty harvest against my opponent :P i even wiped a full strength 30 boyz mob in 1 turn of combat once -_- re-rolling WS5 S5 power weapon hits help ALOT (even if orks are 6+ armour save...youd be suprised how many they can save from time to time) this squad is BRUTAL on the charge :P so i really doubt you need fire support in 500 pts, just make sure you get the charge :( good luck tomorrow ;) Thanks, buddy! Were you running a full ten-man Assault Squad? I'll have 13 of my Space Marines boys in red with me, but I plan on putting both squads into combat at the same time. If I can switch my list around a little, I'll probably use a five-man squad and an eight-man squad with the Librarian and Priest attached - the more rerolls the better! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2799069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 10 man RAS, fist, 2 melta. priest with PW and liby with SoS and UR <- my deathstar unit :) noone expects them to hit like a brick wall, they do. the effect is simular like firing an egg out of a potatoe gun against a concrete wall. the opponent beeing the egg obviously :) that said against anything with a 2+ save they can struggle but ive had them wipe out terminator squads when they themselves were charged :) (hammer nators to, but tbh i dont expect to see someone roll 5 many 1's and 2's on his 3++ ever saves again... 5 wounds 5 kills, go figure....) *shrugs* point is: with a PF sarg (cant be targetted) and 2 IC's (can be targetted) they have a very powerfull first punch, generally hitting before others to. but your IC's are vunerable to getting targetted. IF you are the one who is charging make sure you are nowhere near that powerweapon/fist :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2799453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Byhlli Posted June 21, 2011 Author Share Posted June 21, 2011 Cool, nice one. I'll be building up to a unit like that eventually, I think. At least so far as the 10-man squad with the Priest is concerned. They'll likely be forming the backbone of my army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2799509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 and an awesome backbone they make (I personally take a T.Hammer instead - purely for cool factor) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232559-sternguard-kit-weapon-options/page/2/#findComment-2799513 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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