Codicier Lucion Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I have a question for a few people here involving the use of the Emperor's aquila. Images in Collected Visions show marines with winged chest-pates, lacking only the eagle heads, and Guilliman was noted in first heretic to be wearing the image on his armour after destroying one of the Word Bearers' planets. Furthermore one of the audios, Throne of Lies, has a Night Lord wearing old space marine armour with a cracked aquila on the chest. These contradict the idea that only the Emperor's Children were the legion allowed to have the image. So has there been a retcon recently or are individual rights given to wear the aquila to marines after great victories as a mark of honour? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balthamal Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 At the outset of the Great Crusade the Aquila was relatively new as the symbol of the Emperor (his previous symbols being Lightning bolts that were adopted during the Unification Wars). The Aquila itself represented the Union of Terra and Mars (don't quote me on that, it's something i read somewhere). Originally only the Emperor's Children were granted the honor of wearing the Aquila on their armor but as the Crusade went on more Primarchs began to adopt it to represent their service to the Imperium. Notable exceptions to this being Horus (who bore the Eye of Terra as his own symbol) Sanguinius who for reasons unknown also wore the Eye of Terra and Dorn who refused to wear the Emperor's symbol, instead being the Emperor's symbol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2797390 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 The Primarchs probably have different rules as to their clothing than the Legionnaires themselves do. And Wings on a chestplate do not an aquilla make. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2797472 Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I have a question for a few people here involving the use of the Emperor's aquila. Images in Collected Visions show marines with winged chest-pates, lacking only the eagle heads, and Guilliman was noted in first heretic to be wearing the image on his armour after destroying one of the Word Bearers' planets. Furthermore one of the audios, Throne of Lies, has a Night Lord wearing old space marine armour with a cracked aquila on the chest. These contradict the idea that only the Emperor's Children were the legion allowed to have the image. So has there been a retcon recently or are individual rights given to wear the aquila to marines after great victories as a mark of honour? Guilliman is a primarch. The Emperor's Children were the only Legion allowed to wear it, sure, but there was nothing against the primarchs wearing it. It'd be extremely odd if they didn't. And Talos (the Night Lord in question) has armour made from countless battlefields. He chooses to have an Aquila, so he can ritually break it, as a tradition of defiance and an Up Yours to the Marines he fights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2797502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don the Oiler Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Interestingly, the whole Aquila-on-chestplate idea only really works well with mk3 and mk7/8 armour, all the other marks have tubes and stuff where the Aquila should be. But i think the Emperor's Children fluff was written before the armour design was cemented as we know it now. Well, as far as anything can be called "cemented" in 40K fluff at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2797552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Adam Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think the loyal legions started wearing the aquilla also so they could be easily differentiated from traitors during the drive on terra. Something I think I heard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2797623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 If memory serves, the Mk. VIII plate was introduced quite late in the Heresy and would have been in limited use during the Siege. But again, that's an "I think" comment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2798516 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 If memory serves, the Mk. VIII plate was introduced quite late in the Heresy and would have been in limited use during the Siege. But again, that's an "I think" comment. Actually, the last batch of armour reclaimed from Mars before the seige was Mark V "Heresy Pattern". The lists of armour are shown here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2798950 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phebrickid Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 At the outset of the Great Crusade the Aquila was relatively new as the symbol of the Emperor (his previous symbols being Lightning bolts that were adopted during the Unification Wars). The Aquila itself represented the Union of Terra and Mars (don't quote me on that, it's something i read somewhere). Quoted :) It mentions the addition of a second head to the Emperor's eagle at the end of The Kaban Project short story in HH Collected Visions, and it does indeed represent the union of Terra and Mars. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2798960 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradill Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Interestingly, the whole Aquila-on-chestplate idea only really works well with mk3 and mk7/8 armour, all the other marks have tubes and stuff where the Aquila should be.But i think the Emperor's Children fluff was written before the armour design was cemented as we know it now. Well, as far as anything can be called "cemented" in 40K fluff at least. The Emperor's Children were the only legion allowed to bear the Imperial Aquilla on their armour, luckily, their armour consisted of more than just a chest piece so the cables didn't really impact on this. As already pointed out by Mr. D-B, it would be odd for a Primarch not to wear the aquilla, though there are those that take other symbols or in Lord Dorns' case shun them all together, why would one of the Emperors favoured sons not wear His symbol? As for the Night Lord, I would be doing the same thing if it annoyed my enemy that much. Paradill Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2798969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don the Oiler Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Actually, the last batch of armour reclaimed from Mars before the seige was Mark V "Heresy Pattern". The lists of armour are shown here. Battle for the Abyss and Legion of One already feature mkVI Corvus Armour. Which is really funny, considering mkV is called "Heresy Pattern", technically in Battle for the Abyss the Loyalists didn't even know yet there was to be a Heresy. I actually doubt that the Imperial Fists rescued mkV from Mars, which is more of a patchwork armour, i think it was probably mkVI or mkVII. I wouldn't be surprised if by the Siege of Terra every Loyalist Marine wore mkVII, everyone with a shiny new Aquila on it. The EC will probably all run around with moaning mouths and sculpted female breasts on their armour by then. For the record i preferred the old silent and mutual agreement that mkV was the last mark known during the heresy, but now that mkVI is in, i doubt the authors will leave it at that. It wouldn't even be THAT inconsistent, there's already some artwork depicting Marines in mkVII, and the 40K-era Chaos Space Marines can't all have stolen their mkVII helmets post-heresy. As always: Warhammer fluff is in constant flux. It's Tzeentch's handiwork. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2798998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Turns out i was wrong. The traitors had mark V. Loyalists had mark VI and VII with older armour most common. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2799231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Battle for the Abyss and Legion of One already feature mkVI Corvus Armour. Which is really funny, considering mkV is called "Heresy Pattern", technically in Battle for the Abyss the Loyalists didn't even know yet there was to be a Heresy.I actually doubt that the Imperial Fists rescued mkV from Mars, which is more of a patchwork armour, i think it was probably mkVI or mkVII. I wouldn't be surprised if by the Siege of Terra every Loyalist Marine wore mkVII, everyone with a shiny new Aquila on it. The EC will probably all run around with moaning mouths and sculpted female breasts on their armour by then. For the record i preferred the old silent and mutual agreement that mkV was the last mark known during the heresy, but now that mkVI is in, i doubt the authors will leave it at that. It wouldn't even be THAT inconsistent, there's already some artwork depicting Marines in mkVII, and the 40K-era Chaos Space Marines can't all have stolen their mkVII helmets post-heresy. As always: Warhammer fluff is in constant flux. It's Tzeentch's handiwork. I think there was something about legions loyal to Horus being equipped with the more advanced armour prior to the rebellion, a part of the warmaster's planning to give him an edge, but that was older fluff than the current series. One of the reasons why so many legions now bear the aquila was due to the Emperor that every loyalist had earned their right to carry the symbol, but i'm not sure how accurate that source was. Also, thank you to those who answered my questions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2799751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I think there was something about legions loyal to Horus being equipped with the more advanced armour prior to the rebellion, a part of the warmaster's planning to give him an edge, but that was older fluff than the current series. That and he had the Fabricator General in his pocket so he'd be equipped with anything and everything Mars had to offer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/232561-use-of-the-aquila-in-legions/#findComment-2807462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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