ShinyRhino Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hey all. Putting the last couple of days' worth of work into my Thunderfire Cannon, and have a couple questions regarding its usage. 1) The rules for Artillery in the BRB state that ICs can join artilleryunits, but are not counted as crew. They can split fire from the artillery unit, but can never fire the guns. When shooting hits an artillery unit, you randomize hits between the guns, and the crew. If I attach my Master of the Forge to the TF Cannon, can he be hit? Since he's not crew, he can't fire the gun. Since the hits are randomized to crew or gun, and the Master isn't crew, is he immune to incoming fire until the gun is dead? 2) Artillery guns count as vehicles. The only vehicles that can move up and down levels in a ruin are Walkers. So, artillery units cannot climb ruins. But, can they be initially deployed there? For example, our FLGS has some flat-topped buildings in our terrain collection, large enough to accomodate both the cannon and the Techmarine behind small parapets. So long as my opponent and I declare them as anything but Impassable, can I plonk the Cannon down on the roof, and just never move it (beyond pivoting on the spot)? It can't legally get down, but can it legally be delpoyed there? Our shop also has several three and four-story ruins with large enough spaces up high to place the gun and Techmarine. Legal to place them up there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilnar Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 1) technically true, but only as long as both the gun and the crew remain alive. Personally, I'd bung him in with the crew for purposes of shooting 2) also yes, there's nothing stopping you deploying it on top of a tower, or a 4 story ruin, but think about how it got up there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 2) also yes, there's nothing stopping you deploying it on top of a tower, or a 4 story ruin, but think about how it got up there.... Thunderhawk insertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Heh, yeah it would be legal to put it up there, but you could never move it off of the top of the building. Not that you ever want to move a Thunderfire, but still :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Hey all.Putting the last couple of days' worth of work into my Thunderfire Cannon, and have a couple questions regarding its usage. 1) The rules for Artillery in the BRB state that ICs can join artilleryunits, but are not counted as crew. They can split fire from the artillery unit, but can never fire the guns. When shooting hits an artillery unit, you randomize hits between the guns, and the crew. If I attach my Master of the Forge to the TF Cannon, can he be hit? Since he's not crew, he can't fire the gun. Since the hits are randomized to crew or gun, and the Master isn't crew, is he immune to incoming fire until the gun is dead? The way i play it, is that it becomes a three model unit (two for artillery one for IC), so every third shot must be allocated to the Ic.. any shots allocated to the cannon/crewman are then rolled for using the table 1-4 hits the cannon, 5-6 the crew.. so example: 6 shots hit the unit, 2 to each model.. the Ic takes two hits, and the four allocated to the crewman and artillery are rolled for 2) Artillery guns count as vehicles. The only vehicles that can move up and down levels in a ruin are Walkers. So, artillery units cannot climb ruins. But, can they be initially deployed there? For example, our FLGS has some flat-topped buildings in our terrain collection, large enough to accomodate both the cannon and the Techmarine behind small parapets. So long as my opponent and I declare them as anything but Impassable, can I plonk the Cannon down on the roof, and just never move it (beyond pivoting on the spot)? It can't legally get down, but can it legally be delpoyed there?Our shop also has several three and four-story ruins with large enough spaces up high to place the gun and Techmarine. Legal to place them up there? theres no limitations on deployment, of course if its forced to move (lash or something) you might have issues.. im not sure on that one.. but as for deployment anything goes. personally i place mine so the t-fire is in the open and the crewman is in area terrain.. even if he has a toe covered hes obscured for cover save.. and using the unit majority rules the thunderfire itself gets a cover save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think the limitation that an IC never becomes crew is more to prevent someone joining an IC to an artillery-piece that has had its crew killed so he can still shoot it - I'd almost say he coutns as crew (small c) for shooting purposes (ie: roll on the table) but not as Crew (big c) for purposes of you shooting with the weapon (ie: no use of his BS, not using him to trace LOS, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 And thats certainly a good house rule- the same one my group uses for that matter- but the RAW is absurdly clear in this case, probly as a complete oversight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 I call bogus on this, when rolling to see what gets hit (art. or inf.) the IC can be hit with shots even though he isnt part of the "crew". After all he is still part of the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 I call bogus on this, when rolling to see what gets hit (art. or inf.) the IC can be hit with shots even though he isnt part of the "crew". After all he is still part of the unit. But the question is, can it be done with the rules as written, without a house rule? It's obviously one of those "ask your opponent before every game" situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 The rules on wound allocation on a unit are very clear, what you trying to do with the "crew" thing seems to border on the realm of nitpicking. No houserules are needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 the way i do it seems to agree with my opponents.. plus im pretty sure the rules state that a joined Ic cannot be crew, therefore lobbing him in with the crew on the to hit chart seems a little off IMO. a t-fire is a 2 model unit, one cannon one crew, a joined Ic simple becomes a third model, so every thrid hit must be allocated to him, any hits 'allocated' to either the cannon or crew must be rolled together on the random to hit table. its pretty simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 The rules on wound allocation on a unit are very clear, what you trying to do with the "crew" thing seems to border on the realm of nitpicking. No houserules are needed. In rereading it with Wound Allocation in mind, you are correct sir! Independent characters that havejoined a unit are considered part of that unit and so may not be picked out as targets. If the unit they have joined is hit, the controlling player can choose to allocate hits against the characters just like the other members of the unit. Since the IC has joined the Artillery "unit", he's a valid target for wound allocation. The randomizing is for hits, not for wounds. So, once the hit locations are worked out, you roll to wound. Standard wound allocation rules not exempted by anything in the Artillery rules, so you have to allocate to the IC if you have enough wounds to allocate (for a TFC, it'd be more than one, lol). Thanks for the help! Leonaides was aiming in the right direction, but you pushed it firmly into the light. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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