Space Wolf Legion

[Legatus]

Partially, the points I stated previously. Again, the Word Bearers didn't lose a whole lot of astartes, so they don't have to make up as much the Ultramarines do, who have a higher number of losses because of their large size, despite the fact that they probably lose less per engagement, they still have a lot of engagements. Indeed, this is why the Ultramarines are said to have gained most of their honours - they had so many astartes they could do a lot more than the other legions could.

This really starts to get off topic, but I feel I have to clarify the issue.

 

First of all, this is not a question of "making up losses", but plainly about how much you can grow in a certain amount of time. The Ultramarines grew from 100,000 to 250,000 within the span of the Great Crusade, or at least from the point Guilliman was found till the end of the Great Cursade. A growth of 150,000 within about 200 years, all while suffering the fewest casualties on the one hand and having a notably well organised supply and recruitment program on the other.

The Word Bearers on the other hand grew a significant amount (likely more than 10 - 20 thousand, probably more in the ball park of at least 50 thousand) within a short period of time. And while you could claim that they had low casualties before being rebuked due to lower number of engagements (instead taking longer to indoctrinate a conquered world), in their more active period after the rebuking their casualties would have been arguably higher.

 

The second issue, though this is purely nit picking, I don't recall the Ultramarine's size ever being given as the reason for them having gained most of their honours. While you could suggest that this might be a reason, it would be incorrect to state that "that's what is being said". In fact, the Codex Ultramarines had the Ultramarines make faster progress than other Legions specifically before they grew in size, and instead due to the way Guilliman organised the supply lines of the Legion and the autonomous governments and defenses he would establish on the worlds he had liberated. (Without that being further elaborated, I take that as meaning the Ultramarines Legion did not have to wait for reinforcements before they could journey on, and they rarely had to double back to defend a world they had already liberated from an alien raider attack or a new incursion. So they could make progress when other Legions were sometimes slowed down by such issues.)

 

As far as the Space Wolves are concerned, of course it seems plausible that by only recruiting from one single world and by being one of the more agressive Legions they might not have had the opportunity to grow. But what we have with the Word Bearers is an instance where they are said to be more active than most other Legions, all while growing in size faster than any other Legion (as opposed to before when the Word Bearers had been the least active Legion). This simply seems to be at odd's with the average sizes of other Legions and the descriptions of the Ultramarines only being able to grow in size due to some specific given reasons.

[Ju'kosian]

No, the failure at Calth (IIRC) was solely because Zadkiel was a moron. He is to us Word Bearers like Uriel Ventris is to the Ultramarines. I'm sure you understand :yuck:

Well at least Uriel Ventris can complete a mission, alright he breaks with the codex to do it but at least he can win..

Zadkiel on the other hand... <_<

 

On topic : the space wolves will have suffered losses at prospero, and prior to the siege of Terra they were engaged in space with the Alpha legion.. in space your power armour means nothing when your battle barge get's blown to pieces.. ;)

And the Hersey takes a few years, so the wolves will have fought on several occasions against other astartes and xenos etc..

I don't think that there was much time during the Heresy to make up for the losses suffered.. after the heresy there was that chapter idea of Roboute...

[Legatus]

Yes, I don't think the notion that the Space Wolves would have suffered horrendous losses by the end of the Heresy and the Scouring is difficult to believe at all.

 

Heck, Leman Russ even took the Space Wolves into the Eye of Terror at some point. Aside from being a pretty bad ass thing to do, that might also account for quite some losses.

 

 

> End of Great Crusade - "Full" Space Wolves Legion

 

> Attack on Prospero

 

> 7 years of Heresy

 

--> major space battle against the Alpha Legion

 

--> major tank battle on Tallarn(?) (not sure when this happened)

 

> 7 years of Scouring

 

--> pursuing the traitors into the Eye of terror

 

> Second Founding - about 3,000 Space Wolves left

[Walter Payton]

Not everything is a slight against the Ultramarines, Legatus. The other Legions have their own strengths too, some of which might be similar to the Ultramarines. That does not make the other legions better, simply similar.

Indeed, about time Legatus realised that.

 

<_<

 

I think it could also have something to do with the way in which the Ultramarines fought; the Ultramarines were very big on establishing the infrastructure on worlds they conquered. It is possible that the Ultramarines did not fight in the most efficient way solely with regards to destroying the enemy forces, but the way in which they could conquer the worlds with a minimum of damage to infrastructure and collateral damage, which might have led to a greater casualty rate as the enemy would have been stronger. The Word Bearer's didn't care about these things.

[Legatus]

You could argue that the Word Bearers were simply bombing world after world, and thus had not many personal casualties. But the Ultramarines Legion was noted to suffer very few casualties. (It even specifically states that they suffered fewer than any other Legion, but that might have been a general statement, meant to reflect the basic era of the Great Crusade, whereas the Word Bearers near the end of teh Crusade were drastically changing their methods compared to that more basic era.)

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

how is it that every thread in this subsection always ends up in a legatus ultramarines debate?

 

WLK

[Legatus]

Maybe I should have just pointed out that there was "a Legion" whose background conflicts with the new development of the Word Bearers. If that new development would have been to become the prime siege experts that "Legion" might have had yellow or metallic armour. But since that development was growing super fast, the "Legion" whose background this conflicts with happens to wear blue.

 

The problem is not that this would detract from the Ultramarines fame. The problem is that this does not seem to fit with Legion sizes and growth rates as they have previously been described, and in particular in the Ultramarines background.

[Nazguire]

I always assumed the simplest answer in regards to Space Wolf numbers in reforming to Codex numbers (or thereabouts...)

 

That they simply didn't recruit. No conspiracy theories, no this or that. That after the Codex Astartes was introduced and the Space Wolves eventually decided to somewhat play along, they simply didn't recruit any more than was necessary and just kept reconstituting companies as needed until they were at a somewhat 'acceptable' size.

 

So after the Heresy and the Scouring they would have suffered a fair few casualties, and with their ridiculously hard recruitment method limiting recruits at the best of times, I don't see it as a problem that over the years this already small Legion was whittled down to a few thousand and split off into the Wolf Brothers. This left perhaps maybe 3 or 4 thousand left, and then they keep fighting until 'Battle of the Fang' occurs. (Remember the Wolf Brothers being destroyed/corrupted and the siege of the Fang didn't just happen in one hit.)

 

I also go 'pah' to Legion numbers on average being over 100,000. I'm happy with the Word Bearers/Ultramarines being 100,000/250,000 respectively as it adds a nice similarity between these two Legions that hate one another, but any other Legions getting to that size just messes with the canon too much. Sure, have them in the tens of thousands if you must, with the Raven Guard at 80,000, the Thousand Sons at 9000, the Emperor's Children at 30,000 etc. This is actually reconcilable with the current background. Otherwise all that nice numerological crap that McNeill made for the Thousand Sons goes down the gurgler and the Space Marines lose their appeal as they suddenly look like overly armoured Imperial Guard regiments.

 

So in my opinion, the Space Wolves were a small Legion, but outnumbered the 9000 strong Thousand Sons easily so were about 30,000-50,000. More than large enough to dominate whatever they ran into as a Legion, but small enough to actually be somewhat believably splitting into the Space Wolves/Wolf Brothers Chapters after the Heresy/Scouring and not having to explain where tens of thousands of Space Wolves magically vanished into.

 

Otherwise pretty much every Legion will have taken 95% casualties, and apart from the Imperial Fists/Blood Angels/White Scars/Istvaan Legions, this doesn't make sense. At least not to me.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

@nazguire: one reason why the destruction of so much of the Wolves legion makes sense to me is that with the Isvaan legions either leaderless of just plain decimated, the Dark Angels split between luthor and the lion, and the survivors of the Siege of Terra being so mauled, those legions that had the strength in them now had to kick the traitor legions out of the imperium and take back what was lost.

 

the war there ust have been bloody and without mercy, and for me, can explain why such massive numbers were lost.

 

WLK

[A D-B]

Maybe I should have just pointed out that there was "a Legion" whose background conflicts with the new development of the Word Bearers.

 

I'm not so certain it conflicts, necessarily. The Ultramarines' efficiency made them 2.5 times the size of the other Legions, as their general recruitment plan. On an average day, the Ultramarines tapped Macragge and Ultramar for new blood, and they did it well.

 

But there's a difference between that, and the Word Bearers then spending five decades harvesting worlds for recruits, readying in secret for a massive civil war only they knew was coming.

 

There's no rub against old lore. The Ultramarines were still the most efficient at it. The Word Bearers just shifted into overdrive right at the end, because they had information no one else had. Similar to how they started conquering at a rapid pace once they were chastised. Before their chastisement, they were the slowest. After it, they were probably the fastest. It still averages out at a medium pace. Doing great for the last five decades wouldn't be enough to make them in the Top Three for conquests or anything, it'd just make them do well in the last rounds before the final bell rings.

[Legatus]

But there's a difference between that, and the Word Bearers then spending five decades harvesting worlds for recruits, readying in secret for a massive civil war only they knew was coming.

If there is a sufficient explanation then it's all good. Like that the Word Bearers were focusing on increasing their strength. But then my issue was that they were said to be extremely active durign that time, and I am not sure being extremely active and focusing on Legion growth is reconcilable. Because then there would really be no reason for why any Legion should ever be below Strength. If they were able to grow and make the fastest progress, then were the other Legions not really trying? There should be an obvious caveat, like only leaving burning worlds behind (as the Index Astartes Word Bearers suggests), or perhaps resulting in lower quality initiates. As I said, this could be employed to, at least in part, explain why the numerical superior Word Bearers were not able to overpower the defenders on Calth. (One could perhaps also remember that the Ultramarines were said to have initiates of especially high quality, in contrast.)

[The Broker]

But there's a difference between that, and the Word Bearers then spending five decades harvesting worlds for recruits, readying in secret for a massive civil war only they knew was coming.

If there is a sufficient explanation then it's all good. Like that the Word Bearers were focusing on increasing their strength. But then my issue was that they were said to be extremely active durign that time, and I am not sure being extremely active and focusing on Legion growth is reconcilable. Because then there would really be no reason for why any Legion should ever be below Strength. If they were able to grow and make the fastest progress, then were the other Legions not really trying? There should be an obvious caveat, like only leaving burning worlds behind (as the Index Astartes Word Bearers suggests), or perhaps resulting in lower quality initiates. As I said, this could be employed to, at least in part, explain why the numerical superior Word Bearers were not able to overpower the defenders on Calth. (One could perhaps also remember that the Ultramarines were said to have initiates of especially high quality, in contrast.)

 

If the other legions were recruiting only from their homeworlds (which they tended to), and the Word Bearers recruited from pretty much any world they came across (as they probably would due to their planned rebellion), it's completely plausible that they managed to be the most active while increasing their numbers.

[lee265]

I always felt as to the whole Founding issue with Space Wolfs was several Grand companies turned into independent chapters after Gullimans law was put forward thus effectivly alowing seveal chapters to be called the space wolves.

 

Further there home world which they almost exclusivly recruit from even in 40k times is very sparsly populated and the test to even have a shot at recruitment extreme so as to pose extreme limits on overal size.

[Perrin]

Have never heard anything like that other than the Wolf Brothers. Doubt any space marine involved in creating a new chapter would take on the same name as another chapter even if it is their founder.

[Walter Payton]

But there's a difference between that, and the Word Bearers then spending five decades harvesting worlds for recruits, readying in secret for a massive civil war only they knew was coming.

If there is a sufficient explanation then it's all good. Like that the Word Bearers were focusing on increasing their strength. But then my issue was that they were said to be extremely active durign that time, and I am not sure being extremely active and focusing on Legion growth is reconcilable. Because then there would really be no reason for why any Legion should ever be below Strength. If they were able to grow and make the fastest progress, then were the other Legions not really trying? There should be an obvious caveat, like only leaving burning worlds behind (as the Index Astartes Word Bearers suggests), or perhaps resulting in lower quality initiates. As I said, this could be employed to, at least in part, explain why the numerical superior Word Bearers were not able to overpower the defenders on Calth. (One could perhaps also remember that the Ultramarines were said to have initiates of especially high quality, in contrast.)

 

If the other legions were recruiting only from their homeworlds (which they tended to), and the Word Bearers recruited from pretty much any world they came across (as they probably would due to their planned rebellion), it's completely plausible that they managed to be the most active while increasing their numbers.

 

Plus, they would have thrown all the "pure of heart and strong of body," stuff out the window. At this time the Imperium cut corners; the Word Bearer's probably never even saw the corner.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I always felt as to the whole Founding issue with Space Wolfs was several Grand companies turned into independent chapters after Gullimans law was put forward thus effectivly alowing seveal chapters to be called the space wolves.

 

Further there home world which they almost exclusivly recruit from even in 40k times is very sparsly populated and the test to even have a shot at recruitment extreme so as to pose extreme limits on overal size.

 

There is no basis for this fluff angle.

The sW's were only split once.

The wolf brothers, the only successor, were disbanded due massive mutations and loss of control of the Canis helix.

 

MassiveSpoilers from "Battle of the Fang":

 

 

There was a plan to fix the instability of the Canis Helix which would allow a Ring of SW's around the Eye of Terror.

The invasion of Fenris by the T.Sons destroyed this effort

 

[ninja6fett]

I always felt as to the whole Founding issue with Space Wolfs was several Grand companies turned into independent chapters after Gullimans law was put forward thus effectivly alowing seveal chapters to be called the space wolves.

 

Further there home world which they almost exclusivly recruit from even in 40k times is very sparsly populated and the test to even have a shot at recruitment extreme so as to pose extreme limits on overal size.

 

There is no basis for this fluff angle.

The sW's were only split once.

The wolf brothers, the only successor, were disbanded due massive mutations and loss of control of the Canis helix.

 

MassiveSpoilers from "Battle of the Fang":

 

 

There was a plan to fix the instability of the Canis Helix which would allow a Ring of SW's around the Eye of Terror.

The invasion of Fenris by the T.Sons destroyed this effort

 

 

I for one loved the fact that

despite Magnus accomplishing that part of the plan the Space Wolves still managed to prevent him from completing the rest of it while also managing to completely wreck Magnus in the bargain. And the kicker is that the rest of the Space Wolves leadership couldn't give a toss that Magnus did that.

 

 

Not really a spoiler but it explicitly says in Battle of the Fang that the Wolf Brothers got half of everything, armor, ships etc. So it wouldn't be much of a stretch to think that they got about half of the Space Wolves themselves in the founding. Although it could have been less, but logically around half I think would be accurate.Especially considering they didn't know the eventual fate of the Wolf brothers.

[Nazguire]

I always felt as to the whole Founding issue with Space Wolfs was several Grand companies turned into independent chapters after Gullimans law was put forward thus effectivly alowing seveal chapters to be called the space wolves.

 

Further there home world which they almost exclusivly recruit from even in 40k times is very sparsly populated and the test to even have a shot at recruitment extreme so as to pose extreme limits on overal size.

 

There is no basis for this fluff angle.

The sW's were only split once.

The wolf brothers, the only successor, were disbanded due massive mutations and loss of control of the Canis helix.

 

MassiveSpoilers from "Battle of the Fang":

 

 

There was a plan to fix the instability of the Canis Helix which would allow a Ring of SW's around the Eye of Terror.

The invasion of Fenris by the T.Sons destroyed this effort

 

 

 

I don't think that the loss of control of the Canis Helix was the sole reason. When was the last time you heard a Space Wolf becoming a Wulfen, which is essentially losing control of the Helix, and growing a freaking beak, tentacles and bird feet? Magnus had something to do with it, if not the main reason.

 

[MonsterofFenris]

Yes, I don't think the notion that the Space Wolves would have suffered horrendous losses by the end of the Heresy and the Scouring is difficult to believe at all.

 

Heck, Leman Russ even took the Space Wolves into the Eye of Terror at some point. Aside from being a pretty bad ass thing to do, that might also account for quite some losses.

 

 

> End of Great Crusade - "Full" Space Wolves Legion

 

> Attack on Prospero

 

> 7 years of Heresy

 

--> major space battle against the Alpha Legion

 

--> major tank battle on Tallarn(?) (not sure when this happened)

 

> 7 years of Scouring

 

--> pursuing the traitors into the Eye of terror

 

> Second Founding - about 3,000 Space Wolves left

sorry im a bit behind but where did you find fluff saying that the space wolves fought the alpha legion? sorry i just want to read it ttoo, and the battle on tallarn... that i would like to know more about.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Not everything is a slight against the Ultramarines, Legatus. The other Legions have their own strengths too, some of which might be similar to the Ultramarines. That does not make the other legions better, simply similar.

Indeed, about time Legatus realised that.

 

Agreed. It gets painful when it happens in your factions forum :)

 

how is it that every thread in this subsection always ends up in a legatus ultramarines debate?

 

WLK

 

* 40K is about the Imperium, which is about Marines, who are about Ultramarines.

 

Why wouldn't an Ultramarines fan take the time the correct our ineptness and errantness every single time that we talk about anything 40K?

It seems like his actions are the only reasonable course of action when you consider the asterisked line. ;)

 

+++

 

It is just easier to ignore the posts, and thus avoid getting fluff-hammered by a fan whose faction actually has the most coherent and sensible fluff from GW.

 

Considering the fluff of other factions is more like a table with only two legs in opposite corners and requires a bit of balancing to keep it upright, tipping that over with a nice bit of fluff-hammer is actually quite easy, especially when your faction's fluff is based on solid ground, rather than the bogginess the rest of them have

 

*insert picture of sleeping cow in Space Wolves colours, being tipped over by an Ultramarine with caption "Didn't I tell you to stay down before?"*

:)

[Lord Ragnarok]

Yes, I don't think the notion that the Space Wolves would have suffered horrendous losses by the end of the Heresy and the Scouring is difficult to believe at all.

 

Heck, Leman Russ even took the Space Wolves into the Eye of Terror at some point. Aside from being a pretty bad ass thing to do, that might also account for quite some losses.

 

 

> End of Great Crusade - "Full" Space Wolves Legion

 

> Attack on Prospero

 

> 7 years of Heresy

 

--> major space battle against the Alpha Legion

 

--> major tank battle on Tallarn(?) (not sure when this happened)

 

> 7 years of Scouring

 

--> pursuing the traitors into the Eye of terror

 

> Second Founding - about 3,000 Space Wolves left

sorry im a bit behind but where did you find fluff saying that the space wolves fought the alpha legion? sorry i just want to read it ttoo, and the battle on tallarn... that i would like to know more about.

 

The Alpha Legion battle with the Space Wolves is mentioned in the horus heresy artbooks. "Collected Visions"

[The Emperor's Champion]

Herein lies the catch for the Ultramarines, where having a lot of fluff is concerned.

The Ultramarines have more fluff than any other Chapter. As the "flagship" Chapter, a lot of the facts about them are stated in terms of how they relate to what is considered "normal" among other factions, AND a lot of differences in other factions are noted in how they differ from the Ultramarines (since they are, in many ways, the baseline).

So, as an Ultramarines player who's EXTREMELY familiar with the Chapter's fluff, one very often finds oneself scratching his head when the facts of the universe get rejiggered somewhere else, and you tend to notice some odd inconsistencies.

This happens a lot to us veteran Ultramarines players in general, but Legatus in particular is seemingly REALLY aware of anything that gets changed.

But yea, that's why it crops up everywhere. It's just always sort of tangentially relevant. *shrug*

 

 

This whole thread is kinda the same thing for the Space Wolves. The more information they get that relates to them, the more you start to see things that make you go "Heeeey... Wait. What?"

[Guest Azeikel]

First of all, this is not a question of "making up losses", but plainly about how much you can grow in a certain amount of time. The Ultramarines grew from 100,000 to 250,000 within the span of the Great Crusade, or at least from the point Guilliman was found till the end of the Great Cursade. A growth of 150,000 within about 200 years, all while suffering the fewest casualties on the one hand and having a notably well organised supply and recruitment program on the other.

The Word Bearers on the other hand grew a significant amount (likely more than 10 - 20 thousand, probably more in the ball park of at least 50 thousand) within a short period of time. And while you could claim that they had low casualties before being rebuked due to lower number of engagements (instead taking longer to indoctrinate a conquered world), in their more active period after the rebuking their casualties would have been arguably higher.

 

Ok lets do a little maths here. By your figure the Ultramarines grew by roughly 150,000 in 200 years which is by 750 marines a year. The word bearers were rebuked (correct me if i'm wrong) 43 years before the battle of Isstvan V. That gives them 43 years in which to rebuild. Assuming that they can't outstrip the Ultramarines for growth as our above poster says we will use the same figure for their growth as is given by the Ultramarines. 43 x 750 = 32,250. Now that really isn't a bad effort, it's not the 50k but it is still alot. So in my opinion their rate of growth isn't all that ludicrous.

 

Of course this once again doesn't explain the original posters question so on topic:

- The Space Wolves incur not insignificant losses in their attack on Prospero and the guerilla war chasing the thousand sons afterwards.

- Leman Russ then has to turn back to help defend Terra but leaves the 13th legion to chase down the Thousand Sons thus 1/13th (possibly more than that since they were Leman Russ' favoured company) leave for the Eye of Terror. (the loss of the 13th legion occurs sometime before the emperor is interred in the golden throne, and of course after Prospero so i place it here as it makes sense to me.)

- A space wolves "unit" is defeated by the Alpha Legion at Yarant (of course we are ver much unsure of the units size)

- Assumedly other elements of the space wolves would have been lost in this period too to the warp storms and attacks by daemons from the warp on their journey to Terra

- The scouring of course, however I cannot see how their losses would be much more than other legions unless they did something incredibly reckless and suicidal like the Imperial fists did when they attacked the Iron Cage

 

After the Heresy the Space Wolves would not have been able to rebuild quickly as they only recruited from Fenris. And then problems are exacerbated when they cannot understand the canis helix and their ability to replicate their gene seed disappears.

 

Their current numbers could simply be due to attrition. At the end of the battle of the fang 2000 voices shouted. Thats alive space wolves. There is definitely more geneseed lying around in dead bodies. The amount of geneseed the space wolves posses at this point is therefore upward of 2000. Over the next 8000 years there would have been instances where geneseed could not have been recovered and thus it was lost. Unable to create more their numbers keep dwindling. The difference in numbers between 80,000 and 1,800 is not just due to the heresy. In my opinion it would have been more like 80,000 to 10,000 (still a drastic amount of losses). 5,000 are then lost to the wolf brothers and the other 3,000 odd is lost slowly over the next 10,000 years through attrition.

 

Just my 2 cents

Azeikel

[Legatus]

sorry im a bit behind but where did you find fluff saying that the space wolves fought the alpha legion?

The Index Astartes of the Alpha Legion mentions that the Alpha Legion inflicted a "stinging defeat on (...) a Space Wolves company at Yarant", but more importantly the Horus Heresy: Collected Visions Artbook (p. 344-345) describes that the Space Wolves Legion was engaged in fleet combat with the Alpha Legion fleet near Prospero and Chondax, where the Alpha Legion had seemingly sought to ambush the White Scars. As the White Scars fleet is preparing to enter combat as well, they are urgently ordered to return to Terra, being forced to leave the Space Wolves to fight the Alpha Legion fleet.

 

"As this was happening the Space Wolves Legion was fighting a losing battle against the rest of the Alpha Legion fleet. Even though the ships of Russ were trying to evade the much larger traitor fleet, they were taking terrible punishment from their gunnery. Again Russ sent furious communications to Jaghatai Khan requesting his urgent assistance.

(...)

The Space Wolves were on their own, facing an enemy that outnumbered and outgunned them and that was intent on destroying them. Russ simply shrugged his shoulders when he received Khan's communication. The fate of his Legion he could not foretell but he was quite sure that his warriors and ship crews would fight as hard as they had ever fought before. The traitor Alpharius would soon remember that an injured wolf was the most dangerous foe of all."

 

The further course of that battle is not described, and the Space Wolves are mentioned later when they make their way to Terra (p. 360):

 

"Erebus of the Word Bearers reported to Horus that their warp-based allies had espied a number of loyalist fleets heading for Terra. The Space Wolves fleet of Leman Russ had somehow evaded the Alpha Legion of Alpharius and had set course for Earth."

 

 

sorry i just want to read it ttoo, and the battle on tallarn... that i would like to know more about.

The battles for Tallarn are only described in bits and patches in various sources, and the only thing that is for certain is that Tallarn had been attacked and virus bombed by the Iron Warriors during the Heresy. It was also at one point the stage for one of the largest tank battles in the history of the Imperium. But who exactly was involved is less clear. Some sources mention the White Scars and the Alpha Legion. Others mention the Space Wolves.

After rummaging through the various Space Wolves and Imperial Guard Codices, I managed to finally find a reference to the Wolves' involvement. It is in the 2nd Edition Codex Space Wolves on page 16, in the short story about Bjorn:

 

"He liked being alone with his dreams.

There were times when he wondered if that was all they were. Had there really been a time when he had worn flesh, when his body had lived and breathed and walked among men?

Had he really once watched Leman Russ stand on the Ice Plain of Skagarak and commanded his roaring host of warriors to board those gleaming silver starships? Had he really fought his way right across the galaxy from Fenris to distant Earth, during the dark days of the Horus Heresy? There were times when some of those long gone memories seemed little more than fever dreams.

Yet there were some memories that still burned as bright in his memory banks as the day when they happened. He could remember the faces of long dead comrades. The shouts of aeons' old warcries still echoed through his mind. He could remember the smell of blood and death on Tallarn, and the sight of Titans marching to battle across the blazing desert. He could remember the Burning of Prospero and the flight of the Thousand Sons. He could remember the ruins of Earth, and the mangled form of the Emperor being placed within his golden throne by Rogal Dorn."

 

 

- The scouring of course, however I cannot see how their losses would be much more than other legions unless they did something incredibly reckless and suicidal like the Imperial fists did when they attacked the Iron Cage

Like pursuing the traitors into the Eye of Terror? :tu:

[Guest Azeikel]

Like pursuing the traitors into the Eye of Terror? :tu:

 

Ah, I thought that was just the 13th legion. My bad.

 

That tank battle on Tallarn sounds very interesting. I would love more information on it too. Sadly it's probably like many of those interesting stories in 40k fluff where there is no more than a small teaser.